Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

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dolfan17
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby dolfan17 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:38 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
smdpnp wrote:
dolfan17 wrote:
smdpnp wrote:Which schools did you guys use to raise your Mich aid?

Northwestern

Wow, nice! Other TLSers didn't get anywhere with their Northwestern aid, so I didn't think to try. Thanks for the tip.


I'm under the impression that your NU offer has to be quite substantially higher than your Mich offer for them to revise. like crazy high

edit: please correct me if I'm wrong though


My Northwestern award was more than double my original Michigan award so I guess that might be true.

orbotop
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby orbotop » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:17 pm

has there always been so much NU-UM "competition", for lack of a better word? lots of talk at ASW and other admitted students events about how it was a choice between NU and UM... i found this a bit strange, given the traditional tier was MVP, but maybe it's normal? totally anecdotally, i think UM is doing a poor job keeping its status among applicants as on par with V and P.

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:22 pm

orbotop wrote:has there always been so much NU-UM "competition", for lack of a better word? lots of talk at ASW and other admitted students events about how it was a choice between NU and UM... i found this a bit strange, given the traditional tier was MVP, but maybe it's normal? totally anecdotally, i think UM is doing a poor job keeping its status among applicants as on par with V and P.


N and D have been placing on par or better than M and V so clearly this MVP thing is a made up TLS thing that doesn't matter and has nothing to do with job placement.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby JamesDean1955 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:39 pm

Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby beepboopbeep » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:14 pm

TripTrip wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Application finally complete! Can't wait to hear back two cycles from now when they finish reviewing my app. :)

FTFY


No joke. Anyone else have total radio silence still? Applied in early December.

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Ned Racine
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby Ned Racine » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:27 pm

I have a gut feeling there will be movement today.

UMich11
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby UMich11 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Ned Racine wrote:I have a gut feeling there will be movement today.


Waitlist movement... i hope.

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Ned Racine
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby Ned Racine » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:37 pm

Still Complete here..

orbotop
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby orbotop » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:42 pm

Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.


JamesDean1955 wrote:Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:39 pm

orbotop wrote:Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.


JamesDean1955 wrote:Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.


No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby curious66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 pm

BigZuck wrote:
orbotop wrote:Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.


JamesDean1955 wrote:Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.


No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.


How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

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beepboopbeep
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby beepboopbeep » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 pm

curious66 wrote:How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?


I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby eph » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:13 pm

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.

Big Zuck if you get the chance change your qoute. You have me saying what you said. Thanks.

The decline in employment has little to do with Michigan which is a great school and much more to do with the reshaping of the entire legal industry. It is a tough time to pony up 200k to go to any school.
Last edited by eph on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

curious66
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby curious66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:13 pm

Ok, then maybe that makes sense.. but if so, the reverse logic also applys.. i.e. someone had $$ from Michigan and nothing from Duke, then the scales tip in Michigan's favor.. I don't think the job prospects are all that different between the two, correct? At least they don't seem all that crazy different on Law school transparency to justify paying sticker at Duke over Michigan. Thoughts anyone?

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:14 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
curious66 wrote:How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?


I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.


Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:14 pm

eph wrote:No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.


Silliest thing I've read this cycle.[/quote]

Why is that silly?

curious66
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby curious66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:15 pm

BigZuck wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
curious66 wrote:How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?


I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.


Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.


Duke is about $74,900 per their website and what they handed out at the April ASW. Michigan is no where near 70 from what I can calculate for out of state -- and that includes living in the apparently expensive Lawyers club.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:18 pm

curious66 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
curious66 wrote:How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?


I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.


Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.


Duke is about $74,900 per their website and what they handed out at the April ASW. Michigan is no where near 70 from what I can calculate for out of state -- and that includes living in the apparently expensive Lawyers club.


Quick google search had this for Michigan at 70. http://www.law.umich.edu/financialaid/D ... budget.pdf

I didn't read what they had at ASW, last time I looked Duke was 72621. I'll have to look at their website again.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:23 pm

BigZuck wrote:
eph wrote:No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.


Silliest thing I've read this cycle.


Why is that silly?[/quote]

Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.

Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby eph » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:26 pm

Wow that's interesting. You have our quotes reversed.

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megagnarley
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby megagnarley » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:29 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
eph wrote:No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.


Silliest thing I've read this cycle.


Why is that silly?


Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.

Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.[/quote]

Credited. Mich flat out rejected me when I came to them with a higher Duke offer.

They are the Bono of law schools right now.

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CaptainLeela
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby CaptainLeela » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:33 pm

I'm just popping into this convo to say I'm interested in seeing it, because I felt like the only person on TLS that wasn't BLOWN AWAY by Michigan. Really underwhelmed when I visited.

If you had told me 6 months ago I would be considering Duke over Mich I would have laughed in your face (and I haven't even seen a scholarship offer yet).

Carry on

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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby curious66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:33 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
eph wrote:No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.


Silliest thing I've read this cycle.


Why is that silly?


Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.
Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.[/quote]

Interesting and unfortunate I guess for the applicant. I had the reverse experience, no $ from Duke (still waiting to hear anything about aid from Cornell, so assume it is zero), but Michigan came through.

04102014
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby 04102014 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:38 pm

I realize this is going to get a lot of shit, but I think Michigan consciously doesn't raise scholarships to match lower-ranked schools because they don't want students who choose them simply because they are the highest bidder in their peer set or below. They place a lot of emphasis on taking students who actually want to be there, and I can say that, at least from my various law school visits, Michigan students fit a particular mold. Matching scholarships from higher-ranked schools makes sense if they're trying to get someone they like but who they know would otherwise never seriously consider them.

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smdpnp
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Re: Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013

Postby smdpnp » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:39 pm

Nope.
Last edited by smdpnp on Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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