Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013 Forum

[eph]

I agree with BigZuck about Michigan being above GULC but below the rest of the T14...when facing huge mountains of debt I could care less about the "somberness" of a school (what people seem to think of CLS), the only thing that matters to me is their employment abilities. It's 3 years of professional school...undergrad is over. Some people need a reality check.

With that said, I tried negotiating with Michigan using higher offers and got the "we do not compete but hope you'll still come" letter.

Will definitely be withdrawing soon, gave it a shot (went to the ASW and everything), and it's just not my cup of tea. Should hopefully free up significant scholly $$ for someone too.

I would say that this applies to you as well if you really believe that quality of life during law school doesn't matter.

Sigh. Really, your Michigan trolling is getting old.

I'll bite. You don't like Mich and you don't like Harvard. What schools do you find worthy of your good will. I'm sure they are on the edge of their seats. We all crave approval after all.

[04102014]

Schools to which he's been accepted ***that aren't Michigan

[JamesDean1955]

Will definitely be withdrawing soon, gave it a shot (went to the ASW and everything), and it's just not my cup of tea. Should hopefully free up significant scholly $$ for someone too.

Hey JD, besides employment numbers, what rubbed you the wrong way at the ASW? I'm really interested in hearing from the applicants who weren't too impressed with Michigan.

For one, the clerkship "experts" at Michigan really didn't know what they were talking about - I was appalled really. Overall, the panels and people I spoke with (non-students) at Michigan were just less impressive than the information I received/people I spoke with at other ASW's and trips to law schools (Columbia, Chicago, Penn, etc.). And, Michigan had more of an undergrad feel to it, I don't know if it was the students, the fact that it is smack in the middle of the undergrad campus with undergrads everywhere, or what, but I just didn't like the atmosphere as much. And I'm not going to lie - I really, really didn't like Ann Arbor, I'm a city person (I grew up rural/near college towns and have had enough of them), and that had a huge influence on my decision.

[TheMostDangerousLG]

Just got the email. Waitlisted.

[sd1234]

Just got the email. Waitlisted.

+1

[JXander]

There is no way they can have a "small wait-list..."

[beepboopbeep]

WLed literally seconds after posting an anti-UM sentiment on TLS. Coincidence?? Yeah, probably.

Withdrew. May my spot go to someone deserving.

[luxurylawyer]

Yet another waitlist. I'm fighting for this one too.

[intlsplitr]

Waitlisted as well. Withdrawing shortly.

[TripTrip]

175/4.0 WL'd. YP much, Mich?

Withdrawdeded. UVA > Mich anyway.

[megagnarley]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measured precisely, to say it has no impact when it accounts for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

[CTT]

_

[CTT]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measure precisely, to say it has no impact when it account for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

Nothing like a well edited post...

But I agree.

[megagnarley]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measure precisely, to say it has no impact when it account for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

Nothing like a well edited post...

But I agree.

Spelling bee champ.

[yodamiked]

Waitlisted

[curious66]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measured precisely, to say it has no impact when it accounts for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.
For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

Well said. My only addtion is that longer term, I see Berkeley falling as well given CA's employment crisis (it started to show up this year) & if they ever get rid of the school funded job nonsense, UVA will fall as it should.

[BigZuck]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measure precisely, to say it has no impact when it account for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

If M is clearly lower than V how is it not clearly lower than D? Virginia and Duke place very similarly, the only big difference I can see is PI. But if all of UVAs school employment gets grouped as PI then how do we know students actually want those jobs and aren't just taking them because they struck out everywhere else and UVA is the only entity actually giving them a chance to be a lawyer?

Until "self selection" can be quantified and we can move beyond the anecdotes I'm going to have to rely on concrete data like big law and clerkship placement and percentage of people reporting salary. And when looking at those things, to me Michigan is clearly below every other T14 save Georgetown. No doubt it's a really good school. But it's just not as good as those others and it seems to be slipping. And in saying all that all I'm really getting at is that to me, it's not worth paying more to attend than D, N, or C. For them to think that they are on another tier above those schools (the vaunted MVP) and worth paying more to attend- that's just plain silly.

[JamesDean1955]

Didn't mean to come off like a complete anti-Michigan person, I didn't think it was a good fit for me (and probably isn't for many people because it's certainly a unique school, which is never a bad thing). I stand by my belief they have weak employment strength relative to other non-GULC's T14's. But hey, that's my two cents, so who cares. And +1 to what BigZuck said above.

I wish anyone seriously considering/already committed to Michigan the best - it's definitely a great school. Over and out.

[curious66]

I don't believe that M is lower than V. That is a ranking crapshoot that UVA is playing quite well -- 17% school funded jobs to increase your placement and rig the rankings is not something I would hold up as a fantastic model. Also, to say that Mich is slipping is strange, because it went up in the rankings this year, unlike Berkeley (even with all the TLS hate .
I can see why someone would pick Duke over Mich (esp. given $$ at Duke) but regardless of where I ultimately go, I will say this about Michigan -- they seem genuinely honest and nice -- both the student body and the administration and faculty.

[Audeamus]

WL. Not going to ride it out. Good luck to those still waiting!

[04102014]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measured precisely, to say it has no impact when it accounts for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

The anti-Michigan stuff in this thread is nothing compared to elsewhere around TLS. I completely agree that if someone doesn't think Michigan is for them, that's cool. My problem is when people make the same arguments over and over again about why Michigan is in decline, and then when you question it, they get pissed off and call you a troll. I've never insulted another school or said that Michigan is "better" (a meaningless term anyway) than anywhere else (I did say that I personally would choose it over UVA, but I also said they were peers), and I don't understand why people care as much as they do when others won't join in on the anti-Michigan TLS echo chamber game.

[curious66]

+1.

[born4law]

Hey everyone! Just got waitlisted. Not thrilled but I have faith!

Join us over at the Michigan Waitlist 2013 thread I just created: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=207984

[BigZuck]

Interesting. A lot of anti-Mich sentiment raining down here.

ASW was great for me but I can see how Mich would be polarizing to some. At the end of the day, whatever. Everyone I spoke to loved it and I guess those who didn't went elsewhere. No wrong or right here.

Those sneezing at the idea of self-selection are just willfully dismissing data though. The PI and Gov contingent is much larger at Mich than a school like Duke. Period. And while the impact on emplyment can't be measured precisely, to say it has no impact when it accounts for 9% more of the class is just silly.

Fully agree it is more of a peer with N/D/C than VP though.

The other point that always seems to get overlooked is the LRAP. Mich smokes the lower t14's with it's LRAP program and it's not even close. To me this is a non-negligible factor.

For full disclosure, I'm honestly 50/50 between Duke and Mich at this point, but I just don't think Duke is that far ahead of Mich as people make it out to be on TLS.

The anti-Michigan stuff in this thread is nothing compared to elsewhere around TLS. I completely agree that if someone doesn't think Michigan is for them, that's cool. My problem is when people make the same arguments over and over again about why Michigan is in decline, and then when you question it, they get pissed off and call you a troll. I've never insulted another school or said that Michigan is "better" (a meaningless term anyway) than anywhere else (I did say that I personally would choose it over UVA, but I also said they were peers), and I don't understand why people care as much as they do when others won't join in on the anti-Michigan TLS echo chamber game.

It's not trolling when what people are saying has substance and is well-reasoned. It is trolling when it's just baseless white-knighting or criticizing.

[qwertyboard]

I have read time and time again that the economic situation in Detroit and Chicago is the main reason for M "weak" employment stats. I could also imagine that's easier for Penn Students, for example, to search for a job in the area vs M students traveling all around the country or a specific region to be interviewed, etc.