Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

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Lavitz
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Lavitz » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

domori wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
cwid1391 wrote:For RD applicants, is there any indication on the status tracker that a decision has been made and to be expecting a letter, or does it just show up unexpected one day?

Shows up unexpected.


Is this the same with international applicants?

If you're international, you should receive an e-mail.

az21833
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby az21833 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:04 pm

Checking in. App submitted today after Dec LSAT.

171/4.0. Most likely will not get in due to late application and 167 October LSAT score, but you only live once so you do what you gotta do. Have spent a lot of time up in Morningside, too bad that doesn't matter.

Couple questions...

1) What type of timetable are we seeing from submitted-->review-->decision? 2/3 months? For me, should I be expecting an answer in March/April?

2) For those admitted, whats the status on merit aid? Do they provide it with your offer of admission? Or do you get a letter a month later? Do you need to apply afterwards for it?

3) For those admitted / denied, how were you informed of their decision? I'm still stranded from my apartment because of Sandy and USPS mail forwarding is spotty, at best. Any information at all would be appreciated.

Thank you all.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:54 pm

Lavitz wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:How many Hamiltons and Butlers are there and do you apply separately or they're just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY

Not sure how many there are; I can try researching it later when I'm not on my phone. Right now, I can tell you that they are indeed "just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY." :)



Thanks lavitz! I think the only school with my numbers that would give me a named scholarship like that is probably USC which would be awesome regardless. Definitely not going to assume ill get any money at all from CCN.

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Lavitz
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:35 am

twinkletoes16 wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:How many Hamiltons and Butlers are there and do you apply separately or they're just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY

Not sure how many there are; I can try researching it later when I'm not on my phone. Right now, I can tell you that they are indeed "just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY." :)



Thanks lavitz! I think the only school with my numbers that would give me a named scholarship like that is probably USC which would be awesome regardless. Definitely not going to assume ill get any money at all from CCN.

So, it's later, and here's my research.

I figure we can get a rough estimate of how many Hamiltons / Butlers are offered by looking at LSN and counting how many people reported receiving the offers and then comparing that to the number of people at another school reporting scholarships where we know the exact number of scholarships in question being offered. We know that Chicago has been offering exactly 20 Rubenstein scholarships per year for the past two years (well, offering repeatedly until all 20 are accepted.) Now, as we can see from kappycaft1's chart, the percentage of total admits reporting on LSN is roughly the same for both Columbia and Chicago (18.13% vs. 20.31% in the 2010-2011 cycle for example). So I'd imagine the number of people reporting scholarships as a percentage of total scholarships being offered would also be comparable.

So next we would just compare how many people reported Rubies at Chicago to how many people reported Hamiltons at Columbia--let's say in the last cycle. I'm counting 21 Rubies at Chicago (assuming that one $160K was a Ruby along with all the $170K+ reports). Obviously a lot of people turned down the Ruby lol. If we only count the people who confirmed attending, the number drops to 4. As for Columbia, I only count 10 Hamiltons (assuming these guys know to list the three-year total) and actually don't see anyone who confirmed accepting it. Anyway, if we plug these numbers into the equation 21/20 = 10/x where x equals the (rough estimate of the) total number of Hamiltons offered, we get something like 9.5, so let's just say it's 10.

Now, another thing that could skew the data is that while I know Chicago has to keep offering the Rubies until all 20 are accepted, I'm not sure the same holds true for Columbia with the Hamilton. I'm not sure if they have a set number that have to be accepted or if they just offer them, then give up and return the money to their coffers if they all get declined. I doubt it, but then again, I can't find anything on how it works, so if someone else knows, I'd greatly appreciate the info. If Columbia doesn't need to keep re-offering the Hamilton, that would explain its lower appearance on LSN. So there could be 20 Rubies and 20 Hamiltons initially offered for all I know, and twice as many people eventually get offered the Rubies only because people keep rejecting them. But assuming Columbia acts the same as Chicago, we can assume that roughly only 10 Hamiltons get accepted.

As for the Butlers (apparently only the $84K and $84.5K offers are Butlers, the $75K offers are just regular awards), I count 11. So again, 21/20 = 11/x which comes out to about the same thing: 10.48, so let's just say 10 again.

Needless to say, I'm now officially concerned that I won't be getting as much money as I thought I would (well, assuming I get in first). In fact, I just saw multiple people with great stats only get offered $25K over three years. Troubling.


It's also worth mentioning this thread, where the OP posts charts of scholarship offers in the 2008-2009 cycle, as well as indexes ("indices" if you like) to show what type of numbers it took to earn the various offers. Now, the link he posted as the source of the indexes no longer works, and I'm sure the schools have changed their indexes or don't use set indexes anymore, or they only applied to splitters, etc., etc., but it's interesting to look at.

The index he uses is located on the bottom of the splitter chart here:

Image

You're still above both medians, so I suppose for fun we can always apply that index to our numbers to determine our place in the regular chart here:

Image

Judging by that, my index would be 235.8, so I thought I'd have a decent shot at a Butler, and even an outside shot at a Hamilton. After roaming through LSN tonight, now I'm just hoping for a Butler. Of course, these charts also leave out all the people who have similar numbers but failed to get any money. It's also probably terribly outdated. I just think it's nice to look at.

Disclaimer: I'm no statistics expert, so if anyone would like to point out any errors I've made, feel free to do so.

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banjo
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby banjo » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:52 am

Paul Campos wrote:In 2011, half the class got no grant money at all, and three-quarters of the half that did get grants still paid more than half sticker tuition. Barely 10% of the class paid less than half tuition and only 1.6% got full tuition scholarships. The median grant for the half of the class that got any money at all was $13,200.


Link here: http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... mbers.html

I'm at work now at can't really look into this, but I am sure this is consistent with Lavitz's observations above.

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djwjddl
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby djwjddl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:54 am

can someone clarify what the general consenus on here is for submitting LOCIs to Columbia? They specifically ask for applicants to submit electronically via their website, so I'm assuming snail mail would not be the way to go, correct?

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:00 pm

From the ABA data:
Left is CLS, right is UChi. I am confused by UChis numbers, when did Rubys first go out?
Image

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:12 pm

Lavitz wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:How many Hamiltons and Butlers are there and do you apply separately or they're just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY

Not sure how many there are; I can try researching it later when I'm not on my phone. Right now, I can tell you that they are indeed "just like SURPRIIISSSSEEEEE HERE's MONEY." :)



Thanks lavitz! I think the only school with my numbers that would give me a named scholarship like that is probably USC which would be awesome regardless. Definitely not going to assume ill get any money at all from CCN.

So, it's later, and here's my research.

I figure we can get a rough estimate of how many Hamiltons / Butlers are offered by looking at LSN and counting how many people reported receiving the offers and then comparing that to the number of people at another school reporting scholarships where we know the exact number of scholarships in question being offered. We know that Chicago has been offering exactly 20 Rubenstein scholarships per year for the past two years (well, offering repeatedly until all 20 are accepted.) Now, as we can see from kappycaft1's chart, the percentage of total admits reporting on LSN is roughly the same for both Columbia and Chicago (18.13% vs. 20.31% in the 2010-2011 cycle for example). So I'd imagine the number of people reporting scholarships as a percentage of total scholarships being offered would also be comparable.

So next we would just compare how many people reported Rubies at Chicago to how many people reported Hamiltons at Columbia--let's say in the last cycle. I'm counting 21 Rubies at Chicago (assuming that one $160K was a Ruby along with all the $170K+ reports). Obviously a lot of people turned down the Ruby lol. If we only count the people who confirmed attending, the number drops to 4. As for Columbia, I only count 10 Hamiltons (assuming these guys know to list the three-year total) and actually don't see anyone who confirmed accepting it. Anyway, if we plug these numbers into the equation 21/20 = 10/x where x equals the (rough estimate of the) total number of Hamiltons offered, we get something like 9.5, so let's just say it's 10.

Now, another thing that could skew the data is that while I know Chicago has to keep offering the Rubies until all 20 are accepted, I'm not sure the same holds true for Columbia with the Hamilton. I'm not sure if they have a set number that have to be accepted or if they just offer them, then give up and return the money to their coffers if they all get declined. I doubt it, but then again, I can't find anything on how it works, so if someone else knows, I'd greatly appreciate the info. If Columbia doesn't need to keep re-offering the Hamilton, that would explain its lower appearance on LSN. So there could be 20 Rubies and 20 Hamiltons initially offered for all I know, and twice as many people eventually get offered the Rubies only because people keep rejecting them. But assuming Columbia acts the same as Chicago, we can assume that roughly only 10 Hamiltons get accepted.

As for the Butlers (apparently only the $84K and $84.5K offers are Butlers, the $75K offers are just regular awards), I count 11. So again, 21/20 = 11/x which comes out to about the same thing: 10.48, so let's just say 10 again.

Needless to say, I'm now officially concerned that I won't be getting as much money as I thought I would (well, assuming I get in first). In fact, I just saw multiple people with great stats only get offered $25K over three years. Troubling.


It's also worth mentioning this thread, where the OP posts charts of scholarship offers in the 2008-2009 cycle, as well as indexes ("indices" if you like) to show what type of numbers it took to earn the various offers. Now, the link he posted as the source of the indexes no longer works, and I'm sure the schools have changed their indexes or don't use set indexes anymore, or they only applied to splitters, etc., etc., but it's interesting to look at.

The index he uses is located on the bottom of the splitter chart here:

Image

You're still above both medians, so I suppose for fun we can always apply that index to our numbers to determine our place in the regular chart here:

Image

Judging by that, my index would be 235.8, so I thought I'd have a decent shot at a Butler, and even an outside shot at a Hamilton. After roaming through LSN tonight, now I'm just hoping for a Butler. Of course, these charts also leave out all the people who have similar numbers but failed to get any money. It's also probably terribly outdated. I just think it's nice to look at.

Disclaimer: I'm no statistics expert, so if anyone would like to point out any errors I've made, feel free to do so.



Wow, lavitz, color me impressed. That is some outstanding detective work. My number is not 229.8 so I am definitely not getting anything from CCN, which is what I figured. However, with my desire for Cali biglaw I'm not sure I would benefit that much from CCN anyway.

I sometimes sit back and am like, DAMN Internet! Can you imagine going through LS admissions without the gold mine of data we have now? It's truly incredible. Now if only I hadn't been an idiot and thought I wanted to be pre-med my first year of college... :roll:


FWIW I do think you will be getting serious $ from at least one of the CCN.

One more random note- it does seem that LS admissions this cycle seems to be MUCH more holistic (looking at you, C, H, especially this time around). I'm interested to see if that would have any influence on the named scholarships or if the indices will still hold.

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:One more random note- it does seem that LS admissions this cycle seems to be MUCH more holistic (looking at you, C, H, especially this time around). I'm interested to see if that would have any influence on the named scholarships or if the indices will still hold.

God, I hope not. This is suppose to be the non-softs are important cycle. Get out of here with your holistic approach.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:26 pm

sinfiery wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:One more random note- it does seem that LS admissions this cycle seems to be MUCH more holistic (looking at you, C, H, especially this time around). I'm interested to see if that would have any influence on the named scholarships or if the indices will still hold.

God, I hope not. This is suppose to be the non-softs are important cycle. Get out of here with your holistic approach.


I thought that too.

Twinkle: evidence for your assertion?

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:34 pm

sinfiery wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:One more random note- it does seem that LS admissions this cycle seems to be MUCH more holistic (looking at you, C, H, especially this time around). I'm interested to see if that would have any influence on the named scholarships or if the indices will still hold.

God, I hope not. This is suppose to be the non-softs are important cycle. Get out of here with your holistic approach.



me and my fellow california crunchy hippies looooooove holistic approaches (:


also trader joe's, veggie burgers, and sriracha-covered avocado.

edit: my evidence is that even this early in the cycle there have been some interviews (and in H's case, acceptances) that were definitively holistic and NOT numbers-based. This is just based on LSN data and so there could be even more out there that have lower numbers.

Of course NYU/UVA/Mich/Penn are still #s-based, but I know muuuuuch less about UVA/Penn so could be wrong. NYU's huge class practically requires them to be #s-based.

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:36 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:sriracha-covered avocado.

I thought I tried sriracha on everything humanely possible, I cannot wait to test this out.

All is forgiven.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:39 pm

sinfiery wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:sriracha-covered avocado.

I thought I tried sriracha on everything humanely possible, I cannot wait to test this out.

All is forgiven.



I'm trapped in this hellhole of Florida so have been covering sriracha in everything and watching everything on netflix instant when i'm not working. I'm not allowed to sublet so am pretty sure I'm trapped in this lease until June or July now so can't move early like I wanted to back to Cali :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sorry to hijack the Columbia thread (though I did apply). I JUST HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS

i work 6 days this week and today is my day off. they called to ask if i wanted to come in. lolno

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:43 pm

:(.

Don't worry, soon you will be a 1L law school student and life will be much better. :lol:



:cry:

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:44 pm

sinfiery wrote::(.

Don't worry, soon you will be a 1L law school student and life will be much better. :lol:



:cry:



Haha right? my social life will still be better than here though. not sure which part of that statement is more depressing. And hey, it will be better, 'cause I've got a future!

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edgeofthenight
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby edgeofthenight » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:41 pm

Do those graphs (which are FANTASTIC, by the way) include public interest fellows or just Hamilton/Butlers?

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:48 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:And hey, it will be better, 'cause I've got a future!

Careful now, don't get too optimistic. This is TLS after all, where law school is a pure doom and gloom investment unless they are giving you full tuition + a stipend offer :P

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02889
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby 02889 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:04 pm

sinfiery wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:And hey, it will be better, 'cause I've got a future!

Careful now, don't get too optimistic. This is TLS after all, where law school is a pure doom and gloom investment unless Yale is giving you full tuition + a stipend offer :P

FTFY.

az21833
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby az21833 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:43 pm

submitted yesterday but no application received from Columbia

How long did it take you guys after you submitted to get received and then to go complete?

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:48 pm

az21833 wrote:submitted yesterday but no application received from Columbia

How long did it take you guys after you submitted to get received and then to go complete?

I submitted early in the day yesterday and got my app received email at 8pm last night.

EDIT: since Columbia doesn't have an actual status checker, you can still make a My Columbia Law account and see if your application components show up there. It's possible they're just behind on the emails.

az21833
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby az21833 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:01 pm

thanks , i think i'll give it a day or two. I assume the email has instructions for setting up such an account?

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sinfiery
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:12 pm

ph5354a wrote:EDIT: since Columbia doesn't have an actual status checker



prepare to have your mind blown

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:42 pm

sinfiery wrote:
ph5354a wrote:EDIT: since Columbia doesn't have an actual status checker



prepare to have your mind blown


Haha, sorry, that's what I meant by the My Columbia Law account. I just meant that they don't use the same status checker as the other schools where they have to give you a log-in and password before you can check anything and subsequently obsessively watch the dates change.

az21833
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby az21833 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:36 pm

so the status checker says they received all my stuff but i never got an email...do i need to do something about this?

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:41 pm

az21833 wrote:so the status checker says they received all my stuff but i never got an email...do i need to do something about this?


Let common sense dictate here.




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