Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
User avatar
bob loblaw11
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:14 am

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby bob loblaw11 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:48 pm

battlerifle13 wrote:
jym_dawg wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
this is incredibly deceptive since the majority of people who were held or WL'd and never made it in over the summer probably didn't come back to enter in that information


You're right, but we're just working with the (limited) info we have. Nobody disputes that schools reject applicants above their medians sometimes, but there isn't evidence to support grapefruit's claim that it happens "all the time."

There are a few exceptions of course, but this discussion seems pointless. There is no crazy theory behind what Columbia is doing.

I was speaking mainly to those exceptions when I offered my theory because if you're over both medians there is some reason that a school has not accepted you. And if there's a collective reasoning behind these holds/reserves, it would help a candidate write a more targeted LOCI. But you're right, there's no reason to discuss this. It's better to sit and feel superior about an acceptance instead. :roll:

User avatar
battlerifle13
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:54 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby battlerifle13 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:54 pm

bob loblaw11 wrote:
battlerifle13 wrote:
jym_dawg wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
this is incredibly deceptive since the majority of people who were held or WL'd and never made it in over the summer probably didn't come back to enter in that information


You're right, but we're just working with the (limited) info we have. Nobody disputes that schools reject applicants above their medians sometimes, but there isn't evidence to support grapefruit's claim that it happens "all the time."

There are a few exceptions of course, but this discussion seems pointless. There is no crazy theory behind what Columbia is doing.

I was speaking mainly to those exceptions when I offered my theory because if you're over both medians there is some reason that a school has not accepted you. And if there's a collective reasoning behind these holds/reserves, it would help a candidate write a more targeted LOCI. But you're right, there's no reason to discuss this. It's better to sit and feel superior about an acceptance instead. :roll:

How would you know if there's ever a "collective reasoning" behind why someone gets held or dinged? Are you on the admissions committee? That's mainly my point, we will never know. And FYI, I don't feel superior in any way, especially if someone has better numbers.

User avatar
smaug_
Posts: 2195
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby smaug_ » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:35 pm

Hey y'all I saw a lot of movement here and figured I'd drop in to give some context as to last cycle and hopefully calm y'all down.

(1) Getting held is not an auto-ding. I'd say it is softer than a WL in many cases. It does mean that you are likely either an outstanding candidate that they're afraid to waste an admit on or that you're a marginal candidate that they're not sure they want/need yet. This cycle, splitters might be a bit of both- folks with high LSATs are just less common and I'm sure that most schools are playing a game of wait and see before admitting or rejecting everyone.

(2) Getting held does not preclude you from receiving aid. You can still get some good packages toward the end of the cycle. I think financial aid is more of a black box than admissions, but I'd say you should only worry about fin. aid once all the cards are on the table.

(3) Getting held is vaguely annoying. I know y'all want to make your decisions and move ahead with planning for next year. Fight that urge. Good things happen to those who wait and if you're in this group you're probably a marginal candidate who has a chance at a good school or you're a great candidate who has a chance at HYS. Either way, you should be patient and see what comes.

(4) If things progress as they did before, Columbia might request a LOCI from some of you. If they do, that's a very very good sign.

On the more depressing side-

I think getting reserved is more rough. Some folks are admitted from reserve, but some (many?) of the people who are currently held will be reserved and might end up ahead of you in line. I wouldn't say that you should give up hope (it's still there!) but I'd suggest that you be realistic in your expectations.

Getting held might mean that you miss out on ASW. This is also a bummer. If this happens to you, I suggest you drop in the "Columbia 1L(s) Taking Questions" thread and ask loads of questions. I think we have a pretty candid group and I'm sure folks will do their best to answer questions as best they can.

Finally, this is the time of year that people get kinda mean. Some folks are going to be bitter. Some people are going to be snobby. I'd say you shouldn't let it get under your skin. Despite the reputation that CLS (and law school in general) has on TLS, people aren't really cut-throat or aggressive. I honestly think that people are more judgmental as 0Ls on TLS than they are as 1Ls IRL. So, be chill. Good things are coming for the lot of y'all, I just know it.

spyder11
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby spyder11 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm

Hey all, I just updated the google doc with my info (also got held in the giant wave on 2/26).

I had a question about this whole HOLD business. I was admitted to NYU with a fairly decent fin aid package and they are expecting a reply by 4/22. In case I don't hear back from Columbia by 4/22, what are my options? Can I request for an extension from NYU?

I would appreciate anyone's input :)

dukie4
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:13 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby dukie4 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:52 pm

hey filling out information for grant aid, I never received the financial aid questionnaire in the mail does anyone know how I can access this online?

User avatar
ph5354a
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:53 pm

spyder11 wrote:Hey all, I just updated the google doc with my info (also got held in the giant wave on 2/26).

I had a question about this whole HOLD business. I was admitted to NYU with a fairly decent fin aid package and they are expecting a reply by 4/22. In case I don't hear back from Columbia by 4/22, what are my options? Can I request for an extension from NYU?

I would appreciate anyone's input :)


You could try to ask for an extension (my instinct is that it's unlikely) or contact CLS towards middle/end of April if you haven't heard back yet to inquire about when you can expect a decision to see if you can move things along. By reply, do you mean deposit, or they expect you to withdraw from other schools? If CLS is your dream, I would deposit at NYU and forfeit it if you end of getting in. But if it's a toss-up, I would take the money and run.

BigZuck
Posts: 10855
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:53 pm

spyder11 wrote:Hey all, I just updated the google doc with my info (also got held in the giant wave on 2/26).

I had a question about this whole HOLD business. I was admitted to NYU with a fairly decent fin aid package and they are expecting a reply by 4/22. In case I don't hear back from Columbia by 4/22, what are my options? Can I request for an extension from NYU?

I would appreciate anyone's input :)


I would ask for the extension and when I got shot down take the money at NYU and laugh all the way to the bank.

Btw if you take the money don't think they can make you withdraw pending apps.

User avatar
ph5354a
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:54 pm

dukie4 wrote:hey filling out information for grant aid, I never received the financial aid questionnaire in the mail does anyone know how I can access this online?


Nope, it's not online. It's included in the spiral notebook of admitted student information that comes after NCE. Two green sheets towards the end of the book. I got it about 4 days after my NCE. If you haven't received it yet, I could call to ask them how to proceed.

User avatar
djwjddl
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby djwjddl » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:02 pm

anyone know if there's a chance we hear back before april 26 for those held?

one_by_one
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby one_by_one » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:08 pm

.
Last edited by one_by_one on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ph5354a
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:12 pm

Ahahaha sorry guys. In my defense, there are a lot of other places online where you would assume it would be...and it's not. Like under the "Financial Aid Questionnaire" tab. Anyways, thanks, one by one.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:47 pm

For those of you following thought I'd share:

Called CLS financial aid office at lunch to discuss my two main problems. First, they said March 1 is a "soft" deadline, which the officer explained meant that it would be good to have your Questionnaire submitted by then, but the other forms can come in over the next few days and no one will notice the difference since they will just be collecting them not making decisions. She said it would take roughly a week for me to get my PIN, which sucks but thats more of an individual issue for me since I doubt any of you are quite that disorganized.

For tax returns, there may be some of your in the same boat as me: I didn't file in 2011 because as a senior in college my income was ~$5500, below the cap for an individual. Yet I haven't filed 2012 yet, where my income is significantly higher since I'm working full time. Basically she said I'm fucked and that I should do it ASAP. However, whenever you submit your financial aid paperwork, it will be reviewed for grants (there's no application thats "too late" until end of April), but she also stressed that earlier is better since its rolling and the $ dries up. specifically used that lingo.

Overall somewhat unpleasant since now that even if I file my 2012 return tonight, it won't get back to me for however long uncle sam deems appropriate and CLS won't consider my application complete until I've faxed it back to them. so for anyone waiting file now!

Lastly, based on the way she described it, if you were just admitted and your scrambling to get paperwork in or you haven't been admitted yet, seems like chances are definitely dimmer for grant aid. doesn't seem fair but c'est la vie. I was in first batch of NCE's and made no motion on figuring it out until this week so I probably don't even deserve to go to columbia law

User avatar
ph5354a
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby ph5354a » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:51 pm

Thanks for the info jbagel. you don't need to wait until you get your refund to submit your returns, though you may want to wait until they've been "accepted" to make sure they're correct but that only took a day or two for me. I don't think you even need to wait for that though.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:56 pm

ph5354a wrote:Thanks for the info jbagel. you don't need to wait until you get your refund to submit your returns, though you may want to wait until they've been "accepted" to make sure they're correct but that only took a day or two for me. I don't think you even need to wait for that though.


will try this thanks. I was supposed to wait for my families' accountant to do it since I could save all these random exemptions but now I'm more concerned about getting it in than the $1K refund or whatever so I'll probably do a free one online with H&R block when I get home from work and hope for the best.

User avatar
smaug_
Posts: 2195
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby smaug_ » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:58 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Lastly, based on the way she described it, if you were just admitted and your scrambling to get paperwork in or you haven't been admitted yet, seems like chances are definitely dimmer for grant aid. doesn't seem fair but c'est la vie. I was in first batch of NCE's and made no motion on figuring it out until this week so I probably don't even deserve to go to columbia law


No matter how she described it, this isn't totally true. Late admits received aid last year. I wasn't admitted at this point last year and I received aid. You might be better off applying earlier, but I wouldn't say that chances are "definitely dimmer." I don't think anyone knows how much money is out there to give, if there are firm boundaries on the amount they can give, if applicants turning down Butlers/Hamiltons opens up more money &c.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:01 pm

hibiki wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Lastly, based on the way she described it, if you were just admitted and your scrambling to get paperwork in or you haven't been admitted yet, seems like chances are definitely dimmer for grant aid. doesn't seem fair but c'est la vie. I was in first batch of NCE's and made no motion on figuring it out until this week so I probably don't even deserve to go to columbia law


No matter how she described it, this isn't totally true. Late admits received aid last year. I wasn't admitted at this point last year and I received aid. You might be better off applying earlier, but I wouldn't say that chances are "definitely dimmer." I don't think anyone knows how much money is out there to give, if there are firm boundaries on the amount they can give, if applicants turning down Butlers/Hamiltons opens up more money &c.


maybe you're right and they reserve a certain chunk for late admits. didn't mean to scare. maybe the finance officer did though.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby sinfiery » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:02 pm

So any advice on those of us who have heard nothing since going complete 3+ months ago?

User avatar
carboncopyx
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:30 am

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby carboncopyx » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:04 pm

This is a pretty dumb question and indicative of the fact that I need to go and read the fine print in my admissions packet closer, but while we're discussing finaid--do students receiving Butler/Hamilton still need to submit finaid materials? Or is that pretty much the maximum sum that a grant will give, leaving other costs (housing, COL, etc.) to be dealt with through other avenues (AKA out-of-pocket, savings, federal loans, etc.)?

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:07 pm

carboncopyx wrote:This is a pretty dumb question and indicative of the fact that I need to go and read the fine print in my admissions packet closer, but while we're discussing finaid--do students receiving Butler/Hamilton still need to submit finaid materials? Or is that pretty much the maximum sum that a grant will give, leaving other costs (housing, COL, etc.) to be dealt with through other avenues (AKA out-of-pocket, savings, federal loans, etc.)?


stafford loan is usually $20,500 which doesn't cover [COA - Butler] and they couldn't estimate your out of pocket contribution without Need Access. so I'm almost certain you have to submit something before May

law_app_noob
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:29 am

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby law_app_noob » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:10 pm

jbagelboy wrote:For those of you following thought I'd share:

Called CLS financial aid office at lunch to discuss my two main problems. First, they said March 1 is a "soft" deadline, which the officer explained meant that it would be good to have your Questionnaire submitted by then, but the other forms can come in over the next few days and no one will notice the difference since they will just be collecting them not making decisions. She said it would take roughly a week for me to get my PIN, which sucks but thats more of an individual issue for me since I doubt any of you are quite that disorganized.

For tax returns, there may be some of your in the same boat as me: I didn't file in 2011 because as a senior in college my income was ~$5500, below the cap for an individual. Yet I haven't filed 2012 yet, where my income is significantly higher since I'm working full time. Basically she said I'm fucked and that I should do it ASAP. However, whenever you submit your financial aid paperwork, it will be reviewed for grants (there's no application thats "too late" until end of April), but she also stressed that earlier is better since its rolling and the $ dries up. specifically used that lingo.

Overall somewhat unpleasant since now that even if I file my 2012 return tonight, it won't get back to me for however long uncle sam deems appropriate and CLS won't consider my application complete until I've faxed it back to them. so for anyone waiting file now!

Lastly, based on the way she described it, if you were just admitted and your scrambling to get paperwork in or you haven't been admitted yet, seems like chances are definitely dimmer for grant aid. doesn't seem fair but c'est la vie. I was in first batch of NCE's and made no motion on figuring it out until this week so I probably don't even deserve to go to columbia law


Thank you so much for this! Very helpful info!

User avatar
jychun412
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby jychun412 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Do I need to submit a copy of my state tax return?

User avatar
hohenheim
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:30 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby hohenheim » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:17 pm

jychun412 wrote:Do I need to submit a copy of my state tax return?


No, just federal.

User avatar
joiedevivre18
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:33 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby joiedevivre18 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:43 pm

sinfiery wrote:So any advice on those of us who have heard nothing since going complete 3+ months ago?


+1

grapefruits
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:13 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby grapefruits » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:14 pm

abcde12345 wrote:
MacB wrote:I think grapefruits has a point here, however indelicately he/she may have put it. :wink: Why else would law schools so prominently display all those fun statements on their websites like "our incoming class represents X number of countries, X number of states, alllllllllllll of the following foreign languages, etc"? There is more to creating an impressive incoming class than just numbers. They do want to put together a diverse class w/ the highest numbers, no doubt, but if you bust their medians and don't possess any other soft characteristics that they are specifically looking for, I can easily see an adcomm WLing a numerically competitive applicant. As for taking that personally... I would recommend against that. Maybe an applicant has all kinds of interesting soft factors, but the school has already admitted other kids w/ similar softs earlier in the cycle and that specific later applicant just doesn't offer anything unique in that cycle.

As far as data, I think we're seeing at least some anecdotal evidence that adcomms WL/deny applicants with above median numbers right here on TLS.

ETA: looking back at it, I realize that ph was probably saying that he/she would like to see some data on the extent to which this happens, not that he/she was doubting that it actually happens. ...my bad. :)


I agree, and I learned it the hard way. I think TLS ultimately overrates numbers. I have no serious character flaws, but I think a mediocre (or, perhaps, a risky) application ultimately hurt me. I'm way underperforming my numbers.

But as for ph's point; ph is right, by and large. For instance, people with numbers ranging from 172-174 and 3.9-4.1 have an 83% acceptance rate to Columbia. Up those numbers to 175-177 to and you get a 90% acceptance rate. This clearly shows that grapefruit's point is hyperbole: above median people are hardly rejected "all the time." But it certainly does happen.


We can quibble over what "all the time" means, but this certainly qualifies for me. A statistically significant number of people at or above Columbia's medians, are rejected every year. I.e., it happens every year, and it happens to 10% and 17% respectively, of two groups that met my criteria.

Interesting idea: make sure that you don't disagree over the definition of a term before you start trying to argue substance.

User avatar
banjo
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm

Re: Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013)

Postby banjo » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:48 pm

sinfiery wrote:So any advice on those of us who have heard nothing since going complete 3+ months ago?


Maybe we'll be unceremoniously reserved in April? http://lawschoolnumbers.com/PhilosophyOrLaw




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”