Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[housebro13]

nothing in the mail

what does this mean? complete september.......

Are you in the New York area?

[Anonymous4444]

Yes

[carboncopyx]

It's not even noon yet... most mail probably has not been delivered. Not quite time to panic. Yet.

[Anonymous4444]

I got my mail and it wasnt there....

[one_by_one]

.

[je12345]

I did something similar, and here it is. For those of you who could care less about the methodology, skip the first few paragraphs.

Methodology: I calculated Pearson's product-moment correlation coefficient (Pearson's r) numbers for the correlations between GPA and admittance, LSAT and admittance, and then the correlation between GPAs and LSAT numbers of their applicants so that I could find the overall r for both numbers and an applicant's admittance. I used people from last cycle who were not URMs and had a decision listed (waitlists were considered rejects). For each school (NYU, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Duke for curiosity's sake) there were 200-400 total people in the analysis. Variables include:

• C_L, or the correlation between LSAT score and admittance
• C_G, or the correlation between GPA and admittance
• C_O, or the overall correlation (C_L + C_G - C_GL).

The reason for that last term (C_GL, or the correlation between an applicant's GPA and LSAT) is because we don't want to double-count people. GPA scores and LSAT scores tend to correlate with one another, so it wouldn't make sense to say that the overall correlation is simply the sum of C_L and C_G, because those two numbers are correlated themselves. So we have to subtract that out. Think about it this way (this is simplified, but helps illustrate my point). If you're an admissions counselor who sees an applicant with a 180, you're going to accept them as long as their GPA meets a certain criteria. However, because of that LSAT score, it really doesn't matter where the GPA falls, but chances are good it was probably reasonably high to begin with. In this case, the person got in based on their LSAT score, not their GPA, so it wouldn't make sense to count them as having gotten in because of their GPA. If it's still unclear, perhaps the easiest way I can explain it is to say that admission counselors use both GPA and LSAT scores, so to simply consider them separately doesn't account for the holistic view.

For those of you unfamiliar with the r term, it's a number that measures correlation, and it's value ranges from -1 (perfect negative correlation) to 0 (completely uncorrelated) to 1 (perfect positive correlation). Because of that range, the resulting fraction is essentially the fraction of the variance accounted for by that variable. For example, if I compare the LSAT scores of applicants to Michigan and their admission decision and find that r = 0.51, I can say that LSAT scores account for 51% of the variance at Michigan. (In other words, it tells you how important a given factor is in admissions decisions)

Disclaimer: I'm not K-JD, so my social statistics class was a little while ago! If I'm factually wrong (I don't think I am, but I also admit to the possibility that I am), please be kind . Additionally, even if my methodology happens to be imperfect, the data isn't exactly pristine either, so we're still left with exactly what we started with--a very imperfect estimate of what the admissions counselors are looking for. That said, I do think my results are somewhat revealing.

Results:
Yale:

• C_L = 0.28
• C_G = 0.24
• C_O = 0.32 (C_GL = 0.20)

Stanford:

• C_L = 0.33
• C_G = 0.35
• C_O = 0.48 (C_GL = 0.19)

Harvard:

• C_L = 0.44
• C_G = 0.42
• C_O = 0.64 (C_GL = 0.22)

Columbia:

• C_L = 0.58
• C_G = 0.39
• C_O = 0.80 (C_GL = 0.16)

NYU:

• C_L = 0.58
• C_G = 0.38
• C_O = 0.80 (C_GL = 0.15)

Duke:

• C_L = 0.51
• C_G = 0.30
• C_O = 0.90 (C_GL = -0.08)

Conclusions:
The results are fairly predictable, but still revealing. With the exception of Stanford (which is known for giving greater weight to GPA), schools consider LSAT scores a bit more heavily. For the T3, there's a stronger correlation between GPA and LSAT score (C_GL~0.21) than as you go down to the bottom. Duke's reverse correlation (or near-perfect uncorrelation) is rather astonishing, because it suggests that splitters and reverse splitters comprised a very large proportion of the total applicant pool. For those of you who earlier were suggesting that NYU is more numbers-based than Columbia, I'm afraid the data don't suggest that, because they're almost perfectly identical. I guess the last easy conclusion to make is that if you want to get into a top law school, do well on your LSAT, because for schools like NYU or Columbia, it's nearly 60% of your application.

Edit: Was pointed out that R^2 is actually Pearson's correlation coefficient. So changed "R^2" to r. Thanks for the call-out!

[az21833]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

[chickpea]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

:'(

[housebro13]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

:'(

cheer up, chickpea! We got into NYU so because Columbia and NYU are similar maybe we will get a similar decision....I hope. If not, downtown is better than uptown anyway lol

[az21833]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

:'(

cheer up, chickpea! We got into NYU so because Columbia and NYU are similar maybe we will get a similar decision....I hope. If not, downtown is better than uptown anyway lol

+1 here

[chickpea]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

:'(

cheer up, chickpea! We got into NYU so because Columbia and NYU are similar maybe we will get a similar decision....I hope. If not, downtown is better than uptown anyway lol

Thanks, Housebro13! I would take NYU over Columbia any day (caveat: unless Columbia gives me a ton of money and NYU doesn't give me anything..but that will never happen). I still don't really understand (I mean, I understand in a rational way but I don't really understand why so many people are more set on Columbia than NYU. NYU is in the best location of any law school in the U.S. and continues to be the only law school where the alumni I meet say they thoroughly enjoyed their time there. Ivies are nice and all, but not if you have to spend three years in relative misery.

Edit: I apologize for fanning the flames of NYU - Columbia rivalry. I'm just pretty sure I'll be at NYU next fall and am getting all school-spirity on you guys. Hope to see you next August, Az and Housebro!

[ph5354a]

so dont be a reverse splitter pretty much

:'(

cheer up, chickpea! We got into NYU so because Columbia and NYU are similar maybe we will get a similar decision....I hope. If not, downtown is better than uptown anyway lol

Thanks, Housebro13! I would take NYU over Columbia any day (caveat: unless Columbia gives me a ton of money and NYU doesn't give me anything..but that will never happen). I still don't really understand (I mean, I understand in a rational way but I don't really understand why so many people are more set on Columbia than NYU. NYU is in the best location of any law school in the U.S. and continues to be the only law school where the alumni I meet say they thoroughly enjoyed their time there. Ivies are nice and all, but not if you have to spend three years in relative misery.

Edit: I apologize for fanning the flames of NYU - Columbia rivalry. I'm just pretty sure I'll be at NYU next fall and am getting all school-spirity on you guys. Hope to see you next August, Az and Housebro!

+1

I'm going to go ahead and admit that over the weekend, my roommate accidentally spilled water on my NYU acceptance letter. I blow dried it. I am not ashamed.

[chickpea]

Haha love it!

[Audeamus]

I'm going to go ahead and admit that over the weekend, my roommate accidentally spilled water on my NYU acceptance letter. I blow dried it. I am not ashamed

my dog hasn't tried to chew anything he wasn't supposed to since I adopted him...that is until he ate a chunk out of my NYU acceptance letter.

[ph5354a]

I'm going to go ahead and admit that over the weekend, my roommate accidentally spilled water on my NYU acceptance letter. I blow dried it. I am not ashamed

my dog hasn't tried to chew anything he wasn't supposed to since I adopted him...that is until he ate a chunk out of my NYU acceptance letter.

I wonder if dogs can fully digest paper...

It has to come out sometime...Too far?

[housebro13]

Thanks, Housebro13! I would take NYU over Columbia any day (caveat: unless Columbia gives me a ton of money and NYU doesn't give me anything..but that will never happen). I still don't really understand (I mean, I understand in a rational way but I don't really understand why so many people are more set on Columbia than NYU. NYU is in the best location of any law school in the U.S. and continues to be the only law school where the alumni I meet say they thoroughly enjoyed their time there. Ivies are nice and all, but not if you have to spend three years in relative misery.

Edit: I apologize for fanning the flames of NYU - Columbia rivalry. I'm just pretty sure I'll be at NYU next fall and am getting all school-spirity on you guys. Hope to see you next August, Az and Housebro!

+1

I'm going to go ahead and admit that over the weekend, my roommate accidentally spilled water on my NYU acceptance letter. I blow dried it. I am not ashamed.

but wow! lol I actually could see myself doing that now that you shared that with us lol

And Chickpea, yeah I'd go to Columbia over NYU any day. However, this is after touring and speaking with many alumni and current students of only Columbia. I only walked by NYU before and met a few NYU alumni. I think it will be a closer decision after I attend NYU's ASW though.

[zdamico]

NCE!!!

Philly Area

[shntn]

So nothing today so far? I'm debating whether or not to dash home on my lunch break and give the mailbox a look-see.

ETA: JK, going home now.

[helix23]

So nothing today so far? I'm debating whether or not to dash home on my lunch break and give the mailbox a look-see.

ETA: JK, going home now.

AWK

[housebro13]

NCE!!!

Philly Area

Congrats!!

I hope the mail makes it at a little farther down south today

[elterrible78]

NCE!!!

Philly Area

That's what I like to hear. Philly was in the same zone as DC on that USPS map!

[chickpea]

I don't think you'll be disappointed, Housebro.

Back to talking about Columbia now!

[spyke123]

nada

[elterrible78]

So nothing today so far? I'm debating whether or not to dash home on my lunch break and give the mailbox a look-see.

ETA: JK, going home now.

Waiting on the report...

[chickpea]

NCE!!!

Philly Area

Congrats!!!