Top Law Schools

BigZuck wrote:I said you need crazy high numbers or something truly special like URM status to get in. Where did I say anything about high lsat/low gpa splitters? I said high numbers brobro, that means high gpa and high LSAT. Being at or slightly above both medians is not the ticket in like it is at Cornell.

BigZuck wrote:I was just saying that I think they cared way more about your numbers ( particularly dat beautiful LSAT)

I'm sure LSAT plays some role in their decision-making process, but they have a 167 LSAT median. It's clearly not their priority. URM is obviously a boost at Cal but it's not like they're half people over both 75ths and half URMs: 40% of their class is people of color, which is in line with most of the rest of the T14. And even their GPA 75th shows that they're not automatically taking people with sky-high numbers -- it's lower than Penn, UVA and Chicago.

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:Speaking of which, I was again curious, so I thought I'd see which schools care the most about your numbers. Here's a ranking of the T14 schools, from those that care most about your numbers to those that care least.

1. Columbia (.78)
2. NYU (.72)
3. Georgetown (.69)
4. Duke (.66)
5. Northwestern (.66)
6. UVA (.61)
6. Harvard (.61)
8. Penn (.58)
8. Chicago (.58)
10. Michigan (.57)
11. Cornell (.54)
12. Berkeley (.49)
13. Stanford (.47)
14. Yale (.35)

I'm sorry, but all the data show that high numbers are much less important at Boalt than at other T14s. I'm not sure why you're arguing against it, it's pretty evident from their 75ths alone that "crazy high numbers" are not a ticket in. Plus, I'm basically arguing that you have a better shot at acceptance than you think.

My main point was just based on two things: 1. This holistic thing gets people with low 160s and 3.7x's to apply because they think their "strong softs" which are actually just as mediocre as everyone else's will get them in. People will look at their medians and hear that they are holistic and think "yeah, that might be doable" when they are really just dead in the water. And 2. It seems like the vast majority of people who are getting in are 170+/3.8+ (give or take). Although I admit that I haven't been following LSN that closely this cycle (mainly because I'm trying not to think/dream about Berkeley too much in the event I get rejected) so I might be wrong about that. Maybe a lot of 167/3.7xs types are actually getting in and I just haven't been paying enough attention.

But if holistic really just means unpredictable more than anything then I definitely agree. As I said I'm basically at or above both medians and I don't like my chances near as much as other t14s when I fall into their number range.

BigZuck wrote:My main point was just based on two things: 1. This holistic thing gets people with low 160s and 3.7x's to apply because they think their "strong softs" which are actually just as mediocre as everyone else's will get them in. People will look at their medians and hear that they are holistic and think "yeah, that might be doable" when they are really just dead in the water. And 2. It seems like the vast majority of people who are getting in are 170+/3.8+ (give or take). Although I admit that I haven't been following LSN that closely this cycle (mainly because I'm trying not to think/dream about Berkeley too much in the event I get rejected) so I might be wrong about that. Maybe a lot of 167/3.7xs types are actually getting in and I just haven't been paying enough attention.

But if holistic really just means unpredictable more than anything then I definitely agree. As I said I'm basically at or above both medians and I don't like my chances near as much as other t14s when I fall into their number range.

I don't want to add too much fuel to the fire but just wanted to chime in agreement with BigZuck.

I think the roughly 10% acceptance rate plays a role in how Berkeley can create an incoming class every year with wide deviations in numbers. Glancing at LSN, it seems that so far, with the exception of URMs, nearly all of the recent admits possess high GPA and high LSAT combinations. For the median crowd at large, it's usually a bloodbath of rejections that awaits us.

Sorry to jump in but I was wondering regarding the last few posts here:

Do think that Berkley reads app files in a more holistic way than other schools? That is even if the applicant is below both medians the admissions officer will actually read the whole app, including the PS and any other supplemental information and only then make a decision? Not that I think that those things will overcome the numbers (for 99.99 percent of applicants anyway) but rather that (unlike other schools? I'm guessing here from what I read on TLS but you can correct me if I'm wrong?) they take the time to evaluate and read every part of the app which is not something that is done in most schools.
Thanks

I feel like people on TLS discuss that every other day and haven't come to any kind of consensus. There's no way for us to really know. My hunch is that they really aren't "holistic" in the sense that they admit candidates with poor numbers but great softs. Berkeley's medians haven't shifted around any more than those of other T6 schools, and consistency in those numbers doesn't just happen on accident. If their medians bounced around a lot relative to other schools, then yes, we'd have reason to believe that they were more holistic and flexible.

fallingup wrote:I feel like people on TLS discuss that every other day and haven't come to any kind of consensus. There's no way for us to really know. My hunch is that they really aren't "holistic" in the sense that they admit candidates with poor numbers but great softs. Berkeley's medians haven't shifted around any more than those of other T6 schools, and consistency in those numbers doesn't just happen on accident. If their medians bounced around a lot relative to other schools, then yes, we'd have reason to believe that they were more holistic and flexible.

Or could it be that the numbers of people they admit with #s well below their medians are so little that it doesn't affect them that much?

EDIT: would you agree that some schools don't bother reading PSs and other info and basically auto reject you? (I'm a URM so I'll target it towards URM admissions)

fallingup wrote:I feel like people on TLS discuss that every other day and haven't come to any kind of consensus. There's no way for us to really know. My hunch is that they really aren't "holistic" in the sense that they admit candidates with poor numbers but great softs. Berkeley's medians haven't shifted around any more than those of other T6 schools, and consistency in those numbers doesn't just happen on accident. If their medians bounced around a lot relative to other schools, then yes, we'd have reason to believe that they were more holistic and flexible.

I agree with you. The bottom line is they need to keep up their medians, because it factors into their rankings. But their LSAT median is relatively low compared to similarly ranked schools, so they must admit applicants with lower LSAT scores. Maybe that in itself shows that they do take a more holistic approach than similarly ranked schools.
My guess is they will put applicants they like but have lower numbers into committee review, and then choose from there. As for what it is that they "like", well, that's the unpredictable part.

I agree with you bellbane. I don't think they are flexible around their own medians. I think they're flexible in the sense that they COULD have a higher LSAT median, but choose not to. Which means they are basically only "holistic" in the sense that they reject candidates with higher LSATs. (People want to interpret that to mean that Berkeley accepts candidates with lower LSATs but unfortunately that doesn't really follow.)

Berkeley's strategy seems to be working for them. Their LSAT median of 167 is lower than every other T14's except Cornell but Berkeley has still managed to lock down its position in T6.

fallingup wrote:I agree with you bellbane. I don't think they are flexible around their own medians. I think they're flexible in the sense that they COULD have a higher LSAT median, but choose not to. Which means they are basically only "holistic" in the sense that they reject candidates with higher LSATs. (People want to interpret that to mean that Berkeley accepts candidates with lower LSATs but unfortunately that doesn't really follow.)

Berkeley's strategy seems to be working for them. Their LSAT median of 167 is lower than every other T14's except Cornell but Berkeley has still managed to lock down its position in T6.

They certainly have not locked down a position in the T6. This is evident by their 3 way tie for 7th. Also, pretty sure that they've been ranked as low as 9th or 10th in the last 4 years.

Interrupting the argument for a moment: is the consensus that adcomms aren't in today? Decisions have typically come through on Mondays, and since this is more or less my "due date" I'm wondering whether I should feel acutely nervous, or just plain-old chronic nervous.

cslouisck wrote:Interrupting the argument for a moment: is the consensus that adcomms aren't in today? Decisions have typically come through on Mondays, and since this is more or less my "due date" I'm wondering whether I should feel acutely nervous, or just plain-old chronic nervous.

Was wondering the same thing
I'm pretty sure they are home

JayJones78 wrote:

cslouisck wrote:Interrupting the argument for a moment: is the consensus that adcomms aren't in today? Decisions have typically come through on Mondays, and since this is more or less my "due date" I'm wondering whether I should feel acutely nervous, or just plain-old chronic nervous.

Was wondering the same thing
I'm pretty sure they are home

You could always call and see if the office is open.

nba101790 wrote:

JayJones78 wrote:

cslouisck wrote:Interrupting the argument for a moment: is the consensus that adcomms aren't in today? Decisions have typically come through on Mondays, and since this is more or less my "due date" I'm wondering whether I should feel acutely nervous, or just plain-old chronic nervous.

Was wondering the same thing
I'm pretty sure they are home

You could always call and see if the office is open.

I randomly called NU and they are closed. Can't imagine why Berkley or others will be open.

When do you think scholarship info will come out?

I have a 15k offer from Michigan that I'd love to submit for the Matching Scholarships thingy... but if they're going to offer me the same amount (or maybe more, who knows) themselves, I don't want to submit the form for nothing. It says on the Matching Scholarships website that we can send other offers starting in February.

Any thoughts?

Mdenis1 wrote:When do you think scholarship info will come out?

I have a 15k offer from Michigan that I'd love to submit for the Matching Scholarships thingy... but if they're going to offer me the same amount (or maybe more, who knows) themselves, I don't want to submit the form for nothing. It says on the Matching Scholarships website that we can send other offers starting in February.

Any thoughts?

I'm confused. From what I had read, Berk gives out the named scholarships (the ones on that one page on ASW), need-based grants, and then the Matching Scholarships. I thought they didn't throw $ out randomly at people for numbers?

holy crap, just got in via email. huge surprise, i had already written off berkeley a long time ago since they'd been accepting ppl who submitted the same time as i did. don't give up hope if you're still waiting!

permapress wrote:holy crap, just got in via email. huge surprise, i had already written off berkeley a long time ago since they'd been accepting ppl who submitted the same time as i did. don't give up hope if you're still waiting!

Congrats! When did you go complete?

permapress wrote:holy crap, just got in via email. huge surprise, i had already written off berkeley a long time ago since they'd been accepting ppl who submitted the same time as i did. don't give up hope if you're still waiting!

Wow that's amazing congrats! Mind sharing your stats/UR dates?

stone_fox wrote:

permapress wrote:holy crap, just got in via email. huge surprise, i had already written off berkeley a long time ago since they'd been accepting ppl who submitted the same time as i did. don't give up hope if you're still waiting!

Wow that's amazing congrats! Mind sharing your stats/UR dates?

3.9/172

Hey everyone Looooong time lurker of this thread.

IN!!!!!!!! via email this morning! I'm in a state of perpetual shock. Although I'm a URM (AA/F)I had written Berkeley off after doing some research on lsn. Moral of the story anything is possible with this school!

UR 1/4
Decision: 1/22

anyone else who went under review on 1/4 and received a decision today? should I start panicking already?

IN via email an hour ago!!! Sent/Received 1/3, Complete/UR 1/7.

171/4.0 No Why Cal but did visit and meet with a member of the adcom between UR and today. No clue if it mattered.

VeeD101 wrote:anyone else who went under review on 1/4 and received a decision today? should I start panicking already?

No need to panic. Others who applied to UVA on the same day as me got in a week ago. Keep the faith. Cycles are weird.

VeeD101 wrote:anyone else who went under review on 1/4 and received a decision today? should I start panicking already?

FWIW, i went UR on 1/4 and have heard nothing back

thanks...I'll panic about another school for now and switch back to Berk in a few days haha