Berkeley c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle) Forum

[helix23]

GWU (RD): Emailed acceptance.

Notre Dame: snail-mail packet.

wrong thread

[20141023]

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[BigZuck]

Not disputing this but I thought I saw somewhere that Duke placed 10% of its class in California? Maybe on the Duke website?

[20141023]

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[John_rizzy_rawls]

Yep, unless Harvard or Stanford dip below to take me, I would choose berk.

If I want to live and practice in California, is choosing berk over CCN that dumb?

If you want California, B almost always > CCN.

+1

+1

Employment rates in CA for the T14:
Berkeley: 61.9%
Stanford: 40.1%
Harvard: 12.2%
Chicago: 11.3%
Northwestern: 10.1%
Cornell: 10.0%
Yale: 9.8%
NYU: 9.4%
Columbia: 9.2%
Michigan: 9.0%
GULC: 7.6%
UVA: 5.6%
Penn:
Duke:

Harvard only 2% above Cornell? Whoa.

[teiswei]

Harvard only 2% above Cornell? Whoa.

I believe most practice in New York. I wouldn't take it as not being able to place there, just a preference of the student body. If you spent three years in Ithaca, you'd likely want to move west as well.

[LSATSCORES2012]

Harvard only 2% above Cornell? Whoa.

I believe most practice in New York. I wouldn't take it as not being able to place there, just a preference of the student body. If you spent three years in Ithaca, you'd likely want to move west as well.

That's the problem with all of these state specific rankings, really.

It would be really nice to have access to the percentage of people who TRIED to work in a certain state that were able to find some employment there, regardless of whether or not they opted to actually go with it. Does anyone know of a good place to find that info?

[20141023]

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[John_rizzy_rawls]

It would be really nice to have access to the percentage of people who TRIED to work in a certain state that were able to find some employment there, regardless of whether or not they opted to actually go with it. Does anyone know of a good place to find that info?

Bingo. That is exactly what we need. I am not sure if such data even exists, but something that we might be able to use instead is how many people from a certain school took the California bar as a general indicator of the number of graduates who "wanted" to work in Cali.

That's what I mistaked your previous data for, hence the shock at the 2% disparity between Crimson and Big Red. I would assume HYS JDs, unless they're bottom 10% of the class or so, are pretty transferable everywhere.

[venus]

It would be really nice to have access to the percentage of people who TRIED to work in a certain state that were able to find some employment there, regardless of whether or not they opted to actually go with it. Does anyone know of a good place to find that info?

Bingo. That is exactly what we need. I am not sure if such data even exists, but something that we might be able to use instead is how many people from a certain school took the California bar as a general indicator of the number of graduates who "wanted" to work in Cali.

Don't most people get a job offer (from wherever they interned) even before graduation, so they take the bar where their job is?

[20141023]

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[ht2988]

Don't most people get a job offer (from wherever they interned) even before graduation, so they take the bar where their job is?

Generally speaking, that is how it is supposed to work... states like Cali and NY are kind of exclusive, but with other states you can pass the bar and then quite easily become eligible to practice in neighboring / nearby states.

More than bar passage rates, though, the thing that I am most worried about is how the economy is going to affect the law school rankings. According to the most recent data, Berkeley has actually left the T14 and falled to #27.

lol - i downloaded the entire report from which these rankings are drawn... it's actually rather interesting to think about what is valued (and what isn't) when we look at law school rankings. it's also a total coincidence that these rankings are determined by the president of cooley law

[20141023]

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[venus]

Don't most people get a job offer (from wherever they interned) even before graduation, so they take the bar where their job is?

Generally speaking, that is how it is supposed to work... states like Cali and NY are kind of exclusive, but with other states you can pass the bar and then quite easily become eligible to practice in neighboring / nearby states.

More than bar passage rates, though, the thing that I am most worried about is how the economy is going to affect the law school rankings. According to the most recent data, Berkeley has actually left the T14 and fallen to #27.

LOL thomas cooley at #2. I knew it!!! Still not too late to apply I hope

[John_rizzy_rawls]

lol - i downloaded the entire report from which these rankings are drawn... it's actually rather interesting to think about what is valued (and what isn't) when we look at law school rankings. it's also a total coincidence that these rankings are determined by the president of cooley law

Yes. In the new ranking methodology, each of the following 40 categories receive 2.5% of a school's total score:

Total J.D. Enrollment
Total Minority Enrollment
Percentage of Minority Students
J.D. First-Year Matriculant Rankings
J.D. First-Year Minority Enrollment Rankings
J.D. First-Year Minority Percentage Rankings
J.D. Foreign National Students
J.D. Foreign National Percentage Rankings
Median Percentile Undergraduate Grade Point Average
Median Percentile LSAT Scores
Total Applications
Number of Full-Time Faculty
Number of Part-Time Faculty
Total Teaching Faculty
Number of Minority Faculty
Student-Faculty Ratio
Typical First-Year Section Size
Number of Course Titles Beyond the First Year
Full-Time Resident Tuition
Full-Time Non-resident Tuition
Percentage of Students Receiving Grants/Scholarships
Median Amount of Grants/Scholarships
Full-Time Resident Affordability Rankings
Full-time Non-Resident Affordability Rankings
Library Materials Expenditure
Total Volumes in Library
Total Titles in Library
Total Serial Subscriptions
Number of Professional Librarians
Library Hours per Week with Professional Staff
Total Library Hours per Week
Library Seating Capacity
Number of Networked Computers Available for Use by Students
Library Total Square Footage
Non-Library Total Square Footage
Total Law School Square Footage
Percentage of Graduates Employed
Number of States in which Graduates are Employed
First-Time Bar Passage Percentage
Program Achievement Rating Rank

Because of this wonderfully new library-centric methodology, not only has Berkeley fallen to #27, but even the mighy Yale has dropped to #10.

Library and square footage related stuff = 550% more important than academic indicators and achievement.

Godspeed Cooley, Godspeed.

[Mdenis1]

So I submitted my application on the 11th and went under review on the 21st. I'm really nervous since I haven't heard anything since.

Can someone just tell me I'm being silly? / Do I have reason to worry? I know a lot of others who went UR on the 21st have heard back.

I'm 169/3.83.

I have similar #s (168 3.92), submitted in early oct. and still under review.

[lsacqueen]

lol - i downloaded the entire report from which these rankings are drawn... it's actually rather interesting to think about what is valued (and what isn't) when we look at law school rankings. it's also a total coincidence that these rankings are determined by the president of cooley law

Yes. In the new ranking methodology, each of the following 40 categories receive 2.5% of a school's total score:

Total J.D. Enrollment
Total Minority Enrollment
Percentage of Minority Students
J.D. First-Year Matriculant Rankings
J.D. First-Year Minority Enrollment Rankings
J.D. First-Year Minority Percentage Rankings
J.D. Foreign National Students
J.D. Foreign National Percentage Rankings
Median Percentile Undergraduate Grade Point Average
Median Percentile LSAT Scores
Total Applications
Number of Full-Time Faculty
Number of Part-Time Faculty
Total Teaching Faculty
Number of Minority Faculty
Student-Faculty Ratio
Typical First-Year Section Size
Number of Course Titles Beyond the First Year
Full-Time Resident Tuition
Full-Time Non-resident Tuition
Percentage of Students Receiving Grants/Scholarships
Median Amount of Grants/Scholarships
Full-Time Resident Affordability Rankings
Full-time Non-Resident Affordability Rankings
Library Materials Expenditure
Total Volumes in Library
Total Titles in Library
Total Serial Subscriptions
Number of Professional Librarians
Library Hours per Week with Professional Staff
Total Library Hours per Week
Library Seating Capacity
Number of Networked Computers Available for Use by Students
Library Total Square Footage
Non-Library Total Square Footage
Total Law School Square Footage
Percentage of Graduates Employed
Number of States in which Graduates are Employed
First-Time Bar Passage Percentage
Program Achievement Rating Rank

Because of this wonderfully new library-centric methodology, not only has Berkeley fallen to #27, but even the mighy Yale has dropped to #10.

Library and square footage related stuff = 550% more important than academic indicators and achievement.

Godspeed Cooley, Godspeed.

I lol'd.

Also, count me in on the Berkeley looove train... Since getting in here I've been getting REAL excited.

[Mdenis1]

Hahahaha at those rankings! Chicago-Kent and University of Miami before Stanford... Absolutely right!

[poohbear26602]

because of this wonderfully new library-centric methodology, not only has Berkeley fallen to #27, but even the mighty Yale has dropped to #10.

Went over the calculation criterion in amusement and realized the library data is taken only from the law-specific libraries. I wonder what would happen if they factored in all of the libraries available on a campus instead of just the designated law libraries. In reality, Berkeley law students have access to not only those, but also the "three main libraries (Doe, Moffitt, and the Bancroft), 18 subject-specialty libraries, and 11 affiliated libraries (with special collections) make up the UC Berkeley Library system."

Calculate that, Cooley. =P

Also, for your entertainment (as the plot thickens): Cooley law has five campuses, each with a separate library. I would be interested to know if it includes all 5 libraries into the singular "Cooley law library" calculation. Hahaha

[twinkletoes16]

Yep, unless Harvard or Stanford dip below to take me, I would choose berk.

If I want to live and practice in California, is choosing berk over CCN that dumb?

If you want California, B almost always > CCN.

+1

+1

Employment rates in CA for the T14:
Berkeley: 61.9%
Stanford: 40.1%
Harvard: 12.2%
Chicago: 11.3%
Northwestern: 10.1%
Cornell: 10.0%
Yale: 9.8%
NYU: 9.4%
Columbia: 9.2%
Michigan: 9.0%
GULC: 7.6%
UVA: 5.6%
Penn:
Duke:

As mentioned above, I'm fairly sure everyone who goes to b wants to stay in California mostly...or at least the dean has mentioned that people who didn't originally, after 3 years, decide west coast is the best coast and stay there. But for CCN...are most gunning for east coast biglaw and so the few west coast placements are self-selecting/less competition? Do law firms/offices in the west coast (SF/SJ/SV/LA) want CCN kids or only B, S, UCLA, USC?

These are the dumb things I speculate about while I sit and wait for a first acceptance. COME ON ANYBODY

[eleemosynary2]

But for CCN...are most gunning for east coast biglaw and so the few west coast placements are self-selecting/less competition? Do law firms/offices in the west coast (SF/SJ/SV/LA) want CCN kids or only B, S, UCLA, USC?

I think it's hard to answer this outside of accumulating anecdotes, so I will offer one. I have a friend at CCN who is around median, has California ties, and wanted Bay Area. Only offer she got was NYC, though, so she's going to have to play the longer game to get back.

I think the conventional wisdom is is that B offers you the tradeoff of a better chance at CA employment but slightly worse chance at employment overall.

[goden]

As mentioned above, I'm fairly sure everyone who goes to b wants to stay in California mostly...or at least the dean has mentioned that people who didn't originally, after 3 years, decide west coast is the best coast and stay there. But for CCN...are most gunning for east coast biglaw and so the few west coast placements are self-selecting/less competition? Do law firms/offices in the west coast (SF/SJ/SV/LA) want CCN kids or only B, S, UCLA, USC?

These are the dumb things I speculate about while I sit and wait for a first acceptance. COME ON ANYBODY

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=192597

This may be useful to you. Personally, I would take B over any school outside of HYS in a heartbeat. From what I've heard, B offers the best non-HYS chance at getting CA biglaw, and if you miss out on biglaw, you can interview at small and mid-sized CA firms that you otherwise would not have access to coming from CCN. I would only possibly take CCN > B if I was indifferent to working in NY vs. CA.

[twinkletoes16]

As mentioned above, I'm fairly sure everyone who goes to b wants to stay in California mostly...or at least the dean has mentioned that people who didn't originally, after 3 years, decide west coast is the best coast and stay there. But for CCN...are most gunning for east coast biglaw and so the few west coast placements are self-selecting/less competition? Do law firms/offices in the west coast (SF/SJ/SV/LA) want CCN kids or only B, S, UCLA, USC?

These are the dumb things I speculate about while I sit and wait for a first acceptance. COME ON ANYBODY

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=192597

This may be useful to you. Personally, I would take B over any school outside of HYS in a heartbeat. From what I've heard, B offers the best non-HYS chance at getting CA biglaw, and if you miss out on biglaw, you can interview at small and mid-sized CA firms that you otherwise would not have access to coming from CCN. I would only possibly take CCN > B if I was indifferent to working in NY vs. CA.

Thank you SO much for this. I felt so guilty in my head for thinking that if I got a CCN and miraculously B, choosing B. I'm still glad I applied to CCN but I would only use it as scholarship leveraging for B, I'm fairly sure.

[Yukos]

Just want to say this discussion has been really depressing for someone who's basically CA or bust but seems much more likely to get into CCN than B.

Why can't you just have NYU-style predictability, Cal??

ETA: Sorry for the pity-party, just had to get that off my chest.

[20141023]

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