Hamilton/Rubenstein c/o 2015 Forum

[jd5]

I know there are threads upon threads discussing Hamilton/Ruby vs. HYS in general terms, so this is just one where this year's applicants faced with the (admittedly amazing) dilemma of having to choose between HYS and Columbia or Chicago with a full ride can gather to discuss what we plan on doing.

My own situation is that I have a Hamilton at Columbia and also a Harvard acceptance -- no word yet from Yale or Stanford. I'm leaning towards taking the Hamilton, as I'll be paying for school myself and have family and friends in New York. I haven't made up my mind, though. Harvard is Harvard, and a Yale acceptance (though unlikely) would certainly shake things up.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what other people with Hamiltons/Rubensteins this year are thinking about doing. Even better would be input from people who have been in this position in past years. Feel free to PM me if you don't want your thought process out in public.

Also, I imagine if this information was out there it would already be in one of the previous threads on this topic, but I would be really interested in knowing what percentage of people in this situation turn down the scholarship. Wild speculation is encouraged.

[Nulli Secundus]

/onehundredthworldproblems

[nametaken]

I have a Butler at Columbia, an acceptance at Harvard, and a Ruby at Chicago. I also have no idea what I should be doing. Columbia is my first choice because I want to be in NYC, but after getting the Ruby I feel like it would be stupid to accept just half tuition at Columbia. I agree its amazing to have this choice to make, but it's also one of the most stressful ones I can think of. I think I change my mind almost every day.

[jd5]

Have you tried using the Rubenstein to leverage Columbia into upgrading your Butler to a Hamilton?

[nametaken]

Have you tried using the Rubenstein to leverage Columbia into upgrading your Butler to a Hamilton?

I actually e-mailed them before asking them to upgrade it based on my HLS acceptance, and got a generic response. Then received the Ruby about an hour later, lol. I'm thinking I'm going to wait until I have all of my $$ offers (I should hear from HLS and NYU soon, I believe), then I'm going to ask again. Maybe at that point some people will have turned down the Hamilton for H/Y/S and there will be some extra money floating around.

[jd5]

It's definitely worth a shot. I'm sure they would love to snipe some Rubensteins away from Chicago.

[nametaken]

I hope so. Have you visited both CLS and HLS? I loved Columbia, but then I saw Harvard's library and realized that turning a HLS degree down would be harder than I thought. Although, I'm not sure how you turn down a full ride to a top 5 school.

[jd5]

[...but then I saw Harvard's library and realized that turning a HLS degree down would be harder than I thought. Although, I'm not sure how you turn down a full ride to a top 5 school.[/quote]

That pretty much mirrors my thinking. I visited HLS once during undergrad and have a few friends there, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to an accepted students weekend; I might try to go up on my own during another weekend. I haven't visted CLS yet, but I'm going to go to their ASW at the end of March.

Have you reached out to Chicago about HLS or vice versa? I'm going to try to get CLS to put me in touch with Hamilton Fellows that turned down HYS and see if HLS will do the same for those who made the opposite decision. The Rubenstein is a newer scholarship, so there may not be as many people to talk to about it, but I'm sure Chicago will be happy to put you in touch with those who have been in your position before and chosen Chicago.

[westbayguy]

Although, I'm not sure how you turn down a full ride to a top 5 school.

it's done all the time- for many reasons- job goals, job location, Big Law v Govt v academia, SO's, family, subject matter interests, clerkship/academia aspirations,etc.

Read everything you can on here- take the "HLS or bust" views off the table, visit ASWs and then decide for yourself.

[nametaken]

[...but then I saw Harvard's library and realized that turning a HLS degree down would be harder than I thought. Although, I'm not sure how you turn down a full ride to a top 5 school.

That pretty much mirrors my thinking. I visited HLS once during undergrad and have a few friends there, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to an accepted students weekend; I might try to go up on my own during another weekend. I haven't visted CLS yet, but I'm going to go to their ASW at the end of March.

Have you reached out to Chicago about HLS or vice versa? I'm going to try to get CLS to put me in touch with Hamilton Fellows that turned down HYS and see if HLS will do the same for those who made the opposite decision. The Rubenstein is a newer scholarship, so there may not be as many people to talk to about it, but I'm sure Chicago will be happy to put you in touch with those who have been in your position before and chosen Chicago.[/quote]

This is a great idea. I'm definitely going to reach out and see if I can get some insider perspectives

[AspiringAcademic]

I just got back from Harvard's visiting weekend, and I think that they put on a very impressive show. But I sat down with their financial aid people and saw that the difference between going there and a Rubenstein would eat almost a third of my after tax income for 10 years. Rather scary.

[jd5]

Anybody with a Hamilton offer make it to Columbia's ASW last week? I know in past years they've given people with Hamilton offers an opportunity to meet with current Hamiltons at CLS -- did they do that this year? Anybody make it?

[justinp]

Harvard/Hamilton here. Definitely a problem I'm glad to have... Went to both ASW's this past week/weekend. Did get to do the sitdown with current Hamiltons, which was fairly helpful. Basic consensus was that they were all really glad that they had taken it, and were in a good position as re: jobs, etc. They also felt like they had more flexibility to go into gov't/PI work than they otherwise would have, since they just straight didn't have debt/only had cost of living debt; even with HLS/YLS LIPP, at fedgov salaries you're still going to be paying some of your loans yourself. Also, since it is a named scholarship, you can put it on your resume, and they said that it had been a meaningful boost, especially for their 1L jobs, since the 1L job hunt gets moving prior to grades coming out-- it was a foot in the door that primed people to think of them as well-credentialed.

After 1L, they said that it was less clear that it really changed anything in a big way (since they all seemed to be doing reasonably well grades-wise, so it's hard to say how much of their success was grade/interview skills related vs. Hamilton related) but it was a great interview talking point that seemed to at least impress people. All of them had landed good jobs, most of them w/ top-tier NY firms (I think one person was going to a really good firm in a secondary market), and the 3Ls were all doing federal clerkships (district, CoA, and tax court were all represented). That said, it's not clear that the people who were there were a representative sample, so there could be some people who are sad that they had made the decision that they did and wish they had gone to HLS/YLS.

HLS put on a really good show, and I can definitely see why people turn down the Hamilton. However, my current sense, which is obviously subject to change dramatically, is that it is easy to get caught up in an institution-to-institution comparison (which Harvard wins, in my view), when what really needs to happen is an individual-experience-within-the-institution comparison. And at that point, it seems like any individual person is unlikely to be affected either way by which institution they attend; the differences are macro-level and probably somewhat exaggerated on these boards. So I'm leaning a bit toward CLS at this point in time. Love to hear what others are thinking.

EDIT: If you're interested, if you call HLS they will put you in touch with some current students who turned down the Hamilton. CLS sends you a letter eventually re: the Hamilton that will have some contact info in it. I've talked to something like six people (three from each school) and it's been really helpful.

[southwick]

Making the Ruby/H/S decision myself, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Butler at Columbia, so that probably won't be it. Leaning S at this point, but I haven't yet visited anywhere, so it's still very much up in the air.

[Elston Gunn]

Ruby vs. Yale here. I was very conflicted for a while, but now I think I'm about 99% set on Yale. It was always the dream, and I think I'll have a much higher QoL for three years (not insignificant when deciding between such good options IMO), but it really came down to this: at Chicago I'd probably get *a* job, but at Yale I'm much more likely to be able to pick a job that I really truly want. Since it's not like I'm going to end up in debtor's prison either way (COAP FTW), that was the most important thing for me.

Best of luck with everyone else making these decisions. Great problems to have!

[nametaken]

Yikes I just found out that the deadline to accept the Ruby is April 1st. Let the anxiety commence

[HeadToWall]

I need to choose between a $1 million scholarship to harvard with a guaranteed starting position as a senior partner or a full ride to Yale with a personal driver to chauffeur me to class in a complimentary 24k gold Bentley. Another option that I am considering less attractive is if I maintain a 3.0 at Stanford they will cede the northern half of California and establish a principality which I could then govern as I see fit.

I clicked on this thread because I saw the title and thought, "Hamilton and Rubinstein? I've never even heard of those schools". And now after reading it I'm depressed. At this point I guess all I can do is tip my hat to you all, good luck!

[Doorkeeper]

I need to choose between a $1 million scholarship to harvard with a guaranteed starting position as a senior partner or a full ride to Yale with a personal driver to chauffeur me to class in a complimentary 24k gold Bentley. Another option that I am considering less attractive is if I maintain a 3.0 at Stanford they will cede the northern half of California and establish a principality which I could then govern as I see fit.

I clicked on this thread because I saw the title and thought, "Hamilton and Rubinstein? I've never even heard of those schools". And now after reading it I'm depressed. At this point I guess all I can do is tip my hat to you all, good luck!

This is one of the rare cases that I would definitely take Harvard over Yale. The earnings potential from Yale is completely dependent upon the price of gold. I don't know about you, but I've really taken a beatings on the commodities market of late. Might as well pocket the $1 mil and enjoy senior partnership, imo. But you better make sure it's equity partner and not that salaried partner bullshit.

[cres]

I'm in the same boat, too. Ruby at Chicago, Butler at Columbia, and Stanford. My top choice would be a Hamilton at Columbia, but I'm not sure how the negotiating process works. Is it just sending an email to the admission office? Has anyone had success doing this? Any pointers?

[justinp]

I'm in the same boat, too. Ruby at Chicago, Butler at Columbia, and Stanford. My top choice would be a Hamilton at Columbia, but I'm not sure how the negotiating process works. Is it just sending an email to the admission office? Has anyone had success doing this? Any pointers?

I'd give them a call, not sure they'll bite though.

Best of luck!

[Twit]

Now that the first Ruby deadline passed, I am curious: who went with UChicago, and who turned them down?

[nametaken]

I deposited at UChi

[Twit]

Myself: it feels insane, but I'm leaning toward H/S over the full rides. I turned down UChicago, mostly because I hated the idea of making a decision April 2.

I try not to think about it too much, because I know from a purely objective standpoint, $125k of debt is probably not worth YSH. Then again, I don't think many YSH grads are starving, even with the debt.

[Twit]

/onehundredthworldproblems

And yes, this topic should have a FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS disclaimer across the top. In a giant, flashing .GIF banner.

[nametaken]

Myself: it feels insane, but I'm leaning toward H/S over the full rides. I turned down UChicago, mostly because I hated the idea of making a decision April 2.

I try not to think about it too much, because I know from a purely objective standpoint, $125k of debt is probably not worth YSH. Then again, I don't think many YSH grads are starving, even with the debt.

I didn't think Harvard was worth it for me. Although I am still waiting to see what happens for Yale