CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

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2LT_CPG
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby 2LT_CPG » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:49 am

fatpeopleavenger wrote:
paradox wrote:4. My question: why does it appear that applications to CUNY have increased but the University of the District of Columbia (of which I know little) located in the District of Columbia has not seen the surge of applications despite what appears to be a curriculum and price point are similar to CUNY?

Thanks.


Everyone wants to live in NYC. Plus slightly higher median salary (I know I know, schools aren't honest with their numbers and/or misleading) than UDC (except a lot of people don't regard COL). I HAVE to think the move to T3 is helping them get more apps thrown their way, whether this impact is little or big I do not know.

If my LSAT doesn't improve significantly and get rejected from CUNY, I'm going to have to consider UDC really hard considering they're a PI school as well. Except I don't think UDC has nearly the same reputation that CUNY has.

VISIT UDC BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY KIND OF DECISION!

I say this because I visited UDC for their open house a few months back, and I can honestly say it was one of the most depressing places I've ever been. First, I've visited both CUNY and UDC at this point (thanks scrowell! Take him up on the tour offers, dude was awesome!) so I think I can speak to both. I went into the visit thinking UDC was going to be a DC version of CUNY. Wrong. UDC is a fourth tier school and it shows. I'd say maybe 90% of the people at the open house were prospective students over forty. And they were incredibly stupid. The school itself was miserable. I took a tour and was astonished to see that their law library is, and I kid you not, a basement room maybe forty by forty feet (with a ceiling ten feet high - it's in the basement), with a few couches and study cubicles, ONE RACK OF LAW BOOKS, and two old PCs. I asked what library functions it had. I was told the computers had an internet connection to Lexis and WestLaw. And there was a printer. LIBRARY!

Furthermore, the pitch for UDC was pretty bad. The dean of admissions spent a good deal of time trashing other schools in the city, mostly Howard and GW, because they don't require clinics for graduation as UDC does. She also dodged a question I asked her about the terrible employment stats of the school and the thirty-something percentage pass rate of a recent class. The dean of admissions was also bemoaning the fact that the city government had forced UDC Law to move buildings - they're in a new building (actually probably built in the 60s) this year that used to be a high school and they seem to fit awfully. The old building was apparently better, which I never saw.

Plus, UDC simply has a different philosophy. Yeah, their thing is public interest, and yes they require you to do a law clinic. But That's where the similarities stop. The UDC system is not CUNY; CUNY is a giant university system (3rd biggest in the country), whereas UDC is essentially the city's single community college. UDC Law (before it was called UDC Law) itself was a for-profit law school until big UDC bought it. Also, it has a TERRIBLE reputation in DC, which is the only place you'll be able to practice (CUNY is really well regarded in NYC, as others have pointed out). Finally, there's no alumni network to take advantage of.

I was going to apply, but the visit convinced me that was a terrible idea. Don't compare the two schools, because I think that's precisely what UDC wants - they've clearly seen CUNY's recent success and wanted to mirror it (i.e. the focus on PI...) despite having substantially less resources and academic talent to do so.

Also Scrowell, I got into Loyola today so my predicament is already in motion haha. But yeah everyone take a tour of CUNY, he'll give you a no BS look at the school.

*Side note* If someone from the NY area take photos of the new building (interior and exterior) and posts them in this thread, I'm sure everyone will love you.

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doceydoe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby doceydoe » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:46 am

for those interested in CUNY Law's new location sorry I can't help but laugh....

I mentioned to my mom where the campus was relocating to and she goes, "By the ho stroll?" LMAO

LIC (particularly the area at the foot of the 59th Street Bridge) has changed dramatically since I was a kid....(watch out Brooklyn!)

I'll try and snap a few shots next time I'm in the area....and yes the building is BEAUTIFUL and MODERN....it makes my heart swell to see Queens develop just a bit...

For those trying to get a better idea of the area type in "2 Court Square Queens NY" in googlemaps and be sure to click "street view"
if you fiddle around with the zoom feature, you'll be able to see the new building budding in the horizon...

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:49 am

Thanks for that info on UDC. I am fully aware of the low quality law building and it's bad passage rate.

I've been to CUNY Law school (when I took the LSAT) and it's not exactly an architectural masterpiece. But I went to CUNY John Jay so I am use to attending a school with mediocre building. It doesn't really bother me at all tbh.

I'll probably go for an official tour the week after I take my (Feb) LSAT.

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:51 am

doceydoe wrote:for those interested in CUNY Law's new location sorry I can't help but laugh....

I mentioned to my mom where the campus was relocating to and she goes, "By the ho stroll?" LMAO

LIC (particularly the area at the foot of the 59th Street Bridge) has changed dramatically since I was a kid....(watch out Brooklyn!)

I'll try and snap a few shots next time I'm in the area....and yes the building is BEAUTIFUL and MODERN....it makes my heart swell to see Queens develop just a bit...

For those trying to get a better idea of the area type in "2 Court Square Queens NY" in googlemaps and be sure to click "street view"
if you fiddle around with the zoom feature, you'll be able to see the new building budding in the horizon...


I went to a HS in LIC and the town itself isn't generally pretty. I don't know if you meant this positively but LIC still has long ways to go to be on the same floor as some of the better Brooklyn towns. LIC still consists of ugly buildings and factories.

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doceydoe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby doceydoe » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:00 am

overunderachiever wrote:
doceydoe wrote:When it comes to NYC it almost always boils down to location.

With that in mind, that new building is making me give CUNY Law some serious consideration...that and the cheap tuition

NYC is known for having a huge income gap and the city is home to several nonprofits and government agencies like HRA etc...thus if public interest law is your chosen career path then CUNY Law is a good choice on account of its location AND mission

I know all of this but having attended CUNY for undergrad AND excelling there...I found that employment prospects were limited for myself and my graduating class...somehow my peers and I ended up in retail and waiting tables all the while wringing our hands hoping for a graduate school acceptance

CUNY Law's bar passage rate is substantially low and the school is not well regarded in the NYC legal circuit....in short, I love you CUNY but can you help me secure employment?


It's not fair to equate the employment prospects of their undergrads w/ the law schools....With that being said, CUNY is not as well regarded in NYC as say, Fordham, but considering the price and the fact that students who apply there do so with the intention of becoming PI lawyers, its a much safer bet than most other schools in NYC. Plus, PI employers know that CUNY grads are dedicated to PI and that is a major factor that they are looking for.


Fair enough, but how's about that bar passage rate? I can't help but question the school's success as far as adequately training students for the NY bar...

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doceydoe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby doceydoe » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:03 am

fatpeopleavenger wrote:
doceydoe wrote:for those interested in CUNY Law's new location sorry I can't help but laugh....

I mentioned to my mom where the campus was relocating to and she goes, "By the ho stroll?" LMAO

LIC (particularly the area at the foot of the 59th Street Bridge) has changed dramatically since I was a kid....(watch out Brooklyn!)

I'll try and snap a few shots next time I'm in the area....and yes the building is BEAUTIFUL and MODERN....it makes my heart swell to see Queens develop just a bit...

For those trying to get a better idea of the area type in "2 Court Square Queens NY" in googlemaps and be sure to click "street view"
if you fiddle around with the zoom feature, you'll be able to see the new building budding in the horizon...


I went to a HS in LIC and the town itself isn't generally pretty. I don't know if you meant this positively but LIC still has long ways to go to be on the same floor as some of the better Brooklyn towns. LIC still consists of ugly buildings and factories.



and then came the hipsters....followed by cafés, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joe's, etc...

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:29 pm

doceydoe wrote:
fatpeopleavenger wrote:
doceydoe wrote:for those interested in CUNY Law's new location sorry I can't help but laugh....

I mentioned to my mom where the campus was relocating to and she goes, "By the ho stroll?" LMAO

LIC (particularly the area at the foot of the 59th Street Bridge) has changed dramatically since I was a kid....(watch out Brooklyn!)

I'll try and snap a few shots next time I'm in the area....and yes the building is BEAUTIFUL and MODERN....it makes my heart swell to see Queens develop just a bit...

For those trying to get a better idea of the area type in "2 Court Square Queens NY" in googlemaps and be sure to click "street view"
if you fiddle around with the zoom feature, you'll be able to see the new building budding in the horizon...


I went to a HS in LIC and the town itself isn't generally pretty. I don't know if you meant this positively but LIC still has long ways to go to be on the same floor as some of the better Brooklyn towns. LIC still consists of ugly buildings and factories.



and then came the hipsters....followed by cafés, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joe's, etc...


orly? well LIC is relatively big, maybe i'm still seeing the ugly part of the town.

Very fitting that CUNY law school would relocate to a town with increasing # of hipsters. Not that there is anything wrong with hipsters, but you would think very liberal schools like CUNY and NYU would have decent amount of them (would this be a fair assumption?).

paradox
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby paradox » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:49 am

Below is a not too flattering article regarding CUNY Law which all perspective students should read. Proceed with caution.

LINK:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... AUYXpvsc5K

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:58 am

paradox wrote:Below is a not too flattering article regarding CUNY Law which all perspective students should read. Proceed with caution.

LINK:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... AUYXpvsc5K


While i think the article makes few good points regarding the bar passage, there is a clear conservative bias in this article. And this shouldn't come off as a surprise, considering it is the NY POST.

overunderachiever
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby overunderachiever » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:12 am

"Back in 2003, CUNY Law was a not-at-all-funny joke — a factory for would-be left-wing “public interest” (i.e., activist) lawyers who couldn’t get into any other law schools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... z1kAHjO7pS

:roll:

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:19 am

overunderachiever wrote:"Back in 2003, CUNY Law was a not-at-all-funny joke — a factory for would-be left-wing “public interest” (i.e., activist) lawyers who couldn’t get into any other law schools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... z1kAHjO7pS

:roll:


Rupert Murdoch fears liberal activist lawyers.

paradox
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby paradox » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:45 am

fatpeopleavenger wrote:
overunderachiever wrote:"Back in 2003, CUNY Law was a not-at-all-funny joke — a factory for would-be left-wing “public interest” (i.e., activist) lawyers who couldn’t get into any other law schools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... z1kAHjO7pS

:roll:


Rupert Murdoch fears liberal activist lawyers.


______________________

I could care less whether the above 2 posters go to CUNY or any place else for that matter but it is humorous that these 2 posters would trivialize information posted in the article that

1. CUNY Law dropped 16% in its bar pass rate and fell into D.F.L among the 15 law schools in NYS. Good luck getting or keeping a job if you do not pass the bar exam.

2. CUNY just raised its GPA standard to avoid probation by .2 thereby acknowledging that its academic model had been flawed. IMO this is a good move but prospective students should be aware of the upgraded requirement since it will likely increase academic casualties.

3. the American Bar Association can and will terminate accreditation for any Law School that does not come within 15 percentages of the state bar pass rate. [Query: "fatpeopleavenger" you responded that the article that referenced the ABA Rule regarding termination of law school accrediation reflected "liberal bias" (your term). Do you mean that the ABA Rule reflects "liberal bias" or that the article reporting the fact tat the ABA has the Rule (yes, it exists- look it up) reflects "liberal bias"?]

4. CUNY Law did admit one or more applicants in 2003 with LSATa of 145 and GPA of 2.5 (look it up) on Lawschoolnumbers.com) and claim that the reason why that report on the billionaire publishers fear of "liberal lawyers.

overunderachiever
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby overunderachiever » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:54 am

paradox wrote:
fatpeopleavenger wrote:
overunderachiever wrote:"Back in 2003, CUNY Law was a not-at-all-funny joke — a factory for would-be left-wing “public interest” (i.e., activist) lawyers who couldn’t get into any other law schools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... z1kAHjO7pS

:roll:


Rupert Murdoch fears liberal activist lawyers.


______________________

I could care less whether the above 2 posters go to CUNY or any place else for that matter but it is humorous that these 2 posters would trivialize information posted in the article that

1. CUNY Law dropped 16% in its bar pass rate and fell into D.F.L among the 15 law schools in NYS. Good luck getting or keeping a job if you do not pass the bar exam.

2. CUNY just raised its GPA standard to avoid probation by .2 thereby acknowledging that its academic model had been flawed. IMO this is a good move but prospective students should be aware of the upgraded requirement since it will likely increase academic casualties.

3. the American Bar Association can and will terminate accreditation for any Law School that does not come within 15 percentages of the state bar pass rate. [Query: "fatpeopleavenger" you responded that the article that referenced the ABA Rule regarding termination of law school accrediation reflected "liberal bias" (your term). Do you mean that the ABA Rule reflects "liberal bias" or that the article reporting the fact tat the ABA has the Rule (yes, it exists- look it up) reflects "liberal bias"?]

4. CUNY Law did admit one or more applicants in 2003 with LSATa of 145 and GPA of 2.5 (look it up) on Lawschoolnumbers.com) and claim that the reason why that report on the billionaire publishers fear of "liberal lawyers.


I'm not trivializing the facts in the article, but merely the way its written. There is definitely a HUGE bias against CUNY (1 article and 1 editorial about CUNY in the span of a day) and the NYpost isn't exactly known for their objectivity. I haven't seen any other articles from any other NY papers about the bar passage rate.
If you refer to page 2, you'll see that the issue about the bar pass rate has been already discussed. The low rate is alarming, but measures are being taken to correct it.
As far as CUNY "acknowledging that its academic model is flawed" I think the move was made because of pressure. If they did think their model was flawed, they would have changed the number of clinic hours (what their academic model is based upon) needed to graduate, etc. Instead the only other change made is the requirement that you must take 4 bar required classes if you fall below a certain GPA.
Personally speaking, I was also apprehensive about attending CUNY because of their bar passage rate, but I knew I wanted to do PI. So, like many others who choose to attend CUNY, I withdrew from schools that are ranked much higher because I'll take a 67% bar passage rate (which doesn't necessarily mean that I'll fail the bar) over 140k+ in debt doing PI any day of the week.

NYCLSATTutor
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby NYCLSATTutor » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:22 am

paradox wrote:
fatpeopleavenger wrote:
overunderachiever wrote:"Back in 2003, CUNY Law was a not-at-all-funny joke — a factory for would-be left-wing “public interest” (i.e., activist) lawyers who couldn’t get into any other law schools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... z1kAHjO7pS

:roll:


Rupert Murdoch fears liberal activist lawyers.


______________________

I could care less whether the above 2 posters go to CUNY or any place else for that matter but it is humorous that these 2 posters would trivialize information posted in the article that

1. CUNY Law dropped 16% in its bar pass rate and fell into D.F.L among the 15 law schools in NYS. Good luck getting or keeping a job if you do not pass the bar exam.

2. CUNY just raised its GPA standard to avoid probation by .2 thereby acknowledging that its academic model had been flawed. IMO this is a good move but prospective students should be aware of the upgraded requirement since it will likely increase academic casualties.

3. the American Bar Association can and will terminate accreditation for any Law School that does not come within 15 percentages of the state bar pass rate. [Query: "fatpeopleavenger" you responded that the article that referenced the ABA Rule regarding termination of law school accrediation reflected "liberal bias" (your term). Do you mean that the ABA Rule reflects "liberal bias" or that the article reporting the fact tat the ABA has the Rule (yes, it exists- look it up) reflects "liberal bias"?]

4. CUNY Law did admit one or more applicants in 2003 with LSATa of 145 and GPA of 2.5 (look it up) on Lawschoolnumbers.com) and claim that the reason why that report on the billionaire publishers fear of "liberal lawyers.


1. Yes their bar pass rate did fall 16%. Can you point to a change that happened at CUNY that facilitated that 16%? If you can't even draw a correlation between the fall in bar passage rate and a change on CUNY's end, then exactly what evidence do you have to support there being a causal connection?

2. Err what? Making a fairly minor change is admitting is admitting its entire academic model is flawed?

3. Well, no. There is more than one way for a school to keep accreditation.

4. Umm, what? Citing the stats of people who CUNY let in....10 years ago is the best you can do?

And yes. NY Post is a conservative rag. They've always attacked CUNY because of what CUNY represents. Are there valid criticisms of CUNY out there? Of course. But citing the NY Post to boost your point just diminishes your credibility.

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:00 am

paradox wrote:
3. the American Bar Association can and will terminate accreditation for any Law School that does not come within 15 percentages of the state bar pass rate. [Query: "fatpeopleavenger" you responded that the article that referenced the ABA Rule regarding termination of law school accrediation reflected "liberal bias" (your term). Do you mean that the ABA Rule reflects "liberal bias" or that the article reporting the fact tat the ABA has the Rule (yes, it exists- look it up) reflects "liberal bias"?]


I think you have me confused with someone else.

But citing the NY Post to boost your point just diminishes your credibility.


^

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2LT_CPG
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby 2LT_CPG » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:19 pm

I agree that the bar passage rate dipping shouldn't affect me personally should I decide to attend. But it does matter. Low bar passage hurts the prestige of the school and casts its graduates in a bad light to potential employers - regardless of whether or not they've passed the bar themselves and whether or not it's a PI job they're after. If you google CUNY Law, some of the first results are that NYPost story, and a few AboveTheLaw articles linking to it, referring to CUNY as the "second worst law school in New York". Not good. It also makes me, as an applicant, question the training CUNY students are getting from the school's professors. Regardless of how mediocre or outright bad someone's UGPA and LSAT were upon admission, the school has a responsibility to prepare them for the bar.

Raising the good standing minimum GPA and requiring bar prep classes is a start, but it all makes me kind of nervous without being able to see if there's a demonstrable effect.

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:34 pm

I have a question. What's the class schedule like? I ask because if I do get admitted and attend, I have to decide whether I want to keep my current job.

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scrowell
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby scrowell » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:41 pm

fatpeopleavenger wrote:I have a question. What's the class schedule like? I ask because if I do get admitted and attend, I have to decide whether I want to keep my current job.


You probs can't keep a job unless it's on weekends. Classes are at random times every weekday between 9-5.

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kmokeefe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby kmokeefe » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:13 pm

my app status date updated to todays date, i've been in review since 12/22

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apslaw1031
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby apslaw1031 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:22 pm

kmokeefe:

That sort of happened to me too... it said my app's been in review for a few weeks and then the date changed to 1/12.
I don't think it's something to worry about too much. It looks like they haven't released any decisions yet. Well, besides the one waitlisted applicant I saw on LSN.

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fatpeopleavenger
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby fatpeopleavenger » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:26 pm

my date hasn't changed once, it's been in review since 12/01.

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kmokeefe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby kmokeefe » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:00 pm

apslaw1031 wrote:kmokeefe:

That sort of happened to me too... it said my app's been in review for a few weeks and then the date changed to 1/12.
I don't think it's something to worry about too much. It looks like they haven't released any decisions yet. Well, besides the one waitlisted applicant I saw on LSN.

you're probably right. a few other schools i've applied to have had date changes like this and i haven't heard a peep. so far the only school i've heard a decision from right after the date updated was American University.

but every time it updates a voice inside my head hopes that i'll be hearing something soon.

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Kess
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby Kess » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:41 pm

I only went in review once- 1/4 -and no updates since.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby 2LT_CPG » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:04 pm

I've been "Ready for Review" since 1/6/12 and nothing's changed since then.

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kmokeefe
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Re: CUNY Law C/O 2015 Applicants

Postby kmokeefe » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:31 pm

Admitted 1/30 !!




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