Syracuse c/o 2015

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quovo
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby quovo » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:52 pm

Mr Cooper wrote:
disconnected wrote:Grades don't matter, class rankings do. So the grades are all relative. Also there is nothing you can do about it.

That also means in a class of 80, 70 students are guaranteed to pass the class. It would be hard to fail out of 1L with that policy.

For the A students, it won't matter, just deal with the fact that an A might be a B+ for 1L and still be Magna Cum Laude, a B average for 1L could be a top 25% of the class aka Cum Laude and on the dean's list for the semester.

Technically you could have a 3.0 B GPA and still be top 25% and Cum Laude.

Also consider that there will be lots of Bs and Cs.

Most 2L classes are NOT bound by the grading policy.


This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Grades do matter. They're the only thing that matters. What do you think class rank is based off of? If you're gunning for a 3.0 at SU then you are going to have one miserable life (assuming you are taking out loans). Do you move your lips when you read? If the curve is 2.9 - 3.1 than a B average (3.0) is not the top 25% of the class. It is in the dead middle of the class. The 50th percentile is not Cum Laude or Dean's List. And none of those prestige labels mean anything other than Law Review and Order of the Coif, which you sure as hell aren't getting if you're anywhere within the 2.9 - 3.1 range.

By the time you're done with 1L you're pretty much locked into where you will finish at law school. While it is true that 2/3 of your law school career still await you, 1L grades matter much more than the rest. This is because job offers tend to be based off of them. Gaining summer employment the summer after 1L is solely based on your 1L fall grades. Then OCI in your 2L year to try to gain summer employment for the next summer is based only on you're 1L grades. Summer employment is crucial to gaining legal employment after law school. Many of the offers to law students come from where they've worked during their summers, and if you are unemployed at graduation, you're only real legal experience comes from summer employment. People want real experience. Good luck trying to get a job if you're only experience is Moot Court or Trial Advocacy. This is why there has been so much controversy about the necessity of law school being 3 years.

And in New York of all places, dear God do you need to be near the top your class to get a job, especially from a school not named NYU, Columbia, or Cornell. There were what, over 9,000 law grads last year competing for a little over 2,000 job openings?


Cooper, your history of posts consist of a link to an article on who should/shouldn't attend law school and SUCOL bashing. That's it.

So I have to ask, what happened? Are those you know there not doing well? You don't hesitate to speak of SUCOL's pitfalls to the rest of us. Did you share these concerns with them before they matriculated? If so, why didn't they listen? Is Syracuse the only law school worth your time to speak ill of? Why the hate Mr Cooper?

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Mr Cooper
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Mr Cooper » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:06 pm

quovo wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:
disconnected wrote:Grades don't matter, class rankings do. So the grades are all relative. Also there is nothing you can do about it.

That also means in a class of 80, 70 students are guaranteed to pass the class. It would be hard to fail out of 1L with that policy.

For the A students, it won't matter, just deal with the fact that an A might be a B+ for 1L and still be Magna Cum Laude, a B average for 1L could be a top 25% of the class aka Cum Laude and on the dean's list for the semester.

Technically you could have a 3.0 B GPA and still be top 25% and Cum Laude.

Also consider that there will be lots of Bs and Cs.

Most 2L classes are NOT bound by the grading policy.


This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Grades do matter. They're the only thing that matters. What do you think class rank is based off of? If you're gunning for a 3.0 at SU then you are going to have one miserable life (assuming you are taking out loans). Do you move your lips when you read? If the curve is 2.9 - 3.1 than a B average (3.0) is not the top 25% of the class. It is in the dead middle of the class. The 50th percentile is not Cum Laude or Dean's List. And none of those prestige labels mean anything other than Law Review and Order of the Coif, which you sure as hell aren't getting if you're anywhere within the 2.9 - 3.1 range.

By the time you're done with 1L you're pretty much locked into where you will finish at law school. While it is true that 2/3 of your law school career still await you, 1L grades matter much more than the rest. This is because job offers tend to be based off of them. Gaining summer employment the summer after 1L is solely based on your 1L fall grades. Then OCI in your 2L year to try to gain summer employment for the next summer is based only on you're 1L grades. Summer employment is crucial to gaining legal employment after law school. Many of the offers to law students come from where they've worked during their summers, and if you are unemployed at graduation, you're only real legal experience comes from summer employment. People want real experience. Good luck trying to get a job if you're only experience is Moot Court or Trial Advocacy. This is why there has been so much controversy about the necessity of law school being 3 years.

And in New York of all places, dear God do you need to be near the top your class to get a job, especially from a school not named NYU, Columbia, or Cornell. There were what, over 9,000 law grads last year competing for a little over 2,000 job openings?


Cooper, your history of posts consist of a link to an article on who should/shouldn't attend law school and SUCOL bashing. That's it.

So I have to ask, what happened? Are those you know there not doing well? You don't hesitate to speak of SUCOL's pitfalls to the rest of us. Did you share these concerns with them before they matriculated? If so, why didn't they listen? Is Syracuse the only law school worth your time to speak ill of? Why the hate Mr Cooper?


I know three people at SUCOL. One 2L, and two 1L's. Two are doing fairly well and one has probably ruined her life financially based on "debt:GPA" ratio and her willingness to remain in law school at any cost. So when it comes to law school, a lot of the first-hand experience information I get comes from them. Compared to a lot of the 0Ls I have talked to, I feel that I have a much better picture of what this the legal system has become than most, especially for recent graduates based on the information I have received. I don't have "it out" for Syracuse in particular, its just in the manner of law school specifics, I know a lot more about SU than other schools. But if you want to know about me, I'm from the Ithaca area, and the way things are looking I am probably re-taking/waiting for next year. There's no rush. I got into some pretty good schools, but didn't receive enough money from them to justify attending right now. Two of the kids I know at Syracuse, who are also doing well there, turned down T20 schools to attend SU because they got great offers to justify attending. One of them also has employment lined up via his family so just passing the bar is really his only obstacle to being employed as a lawyer.

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quovo
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby quovo » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:51 pm

So 2 of the 3 people you know turned down t20 and are doing well at SU. 1 of them has a job lined up. The other is struggling. Sounds like things could be a lot worse.

Is there a chance you may have embraced slightly more negativity than is due in this scenario? Some would say that over half the people you know there are doing very well and have made a good decision.

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Mr Cooper
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Mr Cooper » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:01 am

quovo wrote:So 2 of the 3 people you know turned down t20 and are doing well at SU. 1 of them has a job lined up. The other is struggling. Sounds like things could be a lot worse.

Is there a chance you may have embraced slightly more negativity than is due in this scenario? Some would say that over half the people you know there are doing very well and have made a good decision.


While 2/3 of the people I know who are attending there are doing well for themselves, the fact of the matter is that a lot of their classmates are not.

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quovo
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby quovo » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:47 pm

Mr Cooper wrote:
quovo wrote:So 2 of the 3 people you know turned down t20 and are doing well at SU. 1 of them has a job lined up. The other is struggling. Sounds like things could be a lot worse.

Is there a chance you may have embraced slightly more negativity than is due in this scenario? Some would say that over half the people you know there are doing very well and have made a good decision.


While 2/3 of the people I know who are attending there are doing well for themselves, the fact of the matter is that a lot of their classmates are not.


Is it not possible that just as many students are doing well? I think last I saw, the class of 2014 had 255 students. 25% of them, a bit over 60 students, made Dean's List. Is that a large enough number to argue that a lot of the classmates of the people you know are doing very well there?

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jessedvhs
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby jessedvhs » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:01 pm

Anybody attend the ASW on April 13?
Feedback?
I lucked out and got a free pen!

Musharica
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Musharica » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:39 pm

I'm still waiting to hear from them. So far nothing. Anyone else?

sammyk
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby sammyk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:44 pm

still waiting as well..

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Jsa725
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Jsa725 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:45 pm

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Last edited by Jsa725 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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luuma
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby luuma » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:40 pm

So I submitted my application about 8 weeks ago and have gotten responses from all except Cuse, Albany and Fordham. Damn these guys are sloowwwwwwwww. Anyway, I called Cuse up and they said my decision is in the mail. There's a reason they coin it snailmail. But from these guys I'm starting to think it's being delivered via owl, because the wait is a killer!

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gobuffs10
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby gobuffs10 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:41 pm

Applied at the end of January, accepted a few weeks back. Unfortunately, I think it's just way too expensive for me, and very far away. Withdrawing tonight. Good luck, all.

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Mr Cooper
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Mr Cooper » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:28 pm

quovo wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:
quovo wrote:So 2 of the 3 people you know turned down t20 and are doing well at SU. 1 of them has a job lined up. The other is struggling. Sounds like things could be a lot worse.

Is there a chance you may have embraced slightly more negativity than is due in this scenario? Some would say that over half the people you know there are doing very well and have made a good decision.


While 2/3 of the people I know who are attending there are doing well for themselves, the fact of the matter is that a lot of their classmates are not.


Is it not possible that just as many students are doing well? I think last I saw, the class of 2014 had 255 students. 25% of them, a bit over 60 students, made Dean's List. Is that a large enough number to argue that a lot of the classmates of the people you know are doing very well there?


I would strongly bet that an overwhelmingly high majority of SU students, as well as most law students anywhere for that matter, do not have family connections that have lined up a legal job prior to law school. The two students I know there who turned down T20's are the rare exception to the rule, especially due to how few scholarships SU gives out each year that can actually make the school worth going to from a financial standpoint. So no I wouldn't say that because two of the people I know who go there are doing well that I am over-exaggerating my stance because more than half of the kids there are very likely screwed.

The Dean's List at SUCOL is for the top 25%. Since there is a hard grading curve, there will be a top 25% every semester. Doesn't really change anything and isn't really indicative of how well or worse off people are, especially after only one semester. The only thing that that statistic shows you is that already 3/4 of the class is screwed for OCI.

Syracuse is a well enough known school that there are people who will succeed after attending, I'm not denying that. And its not going to be just one or two. I'd say the top 30-40 students of each class will probably be well off. But there are so many who won't be. It's a big gamble is all I'm saying. A BIG ONE. You have no idea how you are going to perform in law school due to how the grading system works. And since one can literally be ruining their life by making a dumb financial decision when it comes to law school, it's not worth the risk. There are what, twice as many lawyers in this country as there are legal positions? Are you really willing to take out 80k + in loans for a 50/50 shot at things not working out, and if they do work out most likely still not put you in a position to both pay off your debt and manage a comfortable life? At least if you're smart about it and it doesn't work out you won't have life-crushing debt hanging on your shoulders.

TF31
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby TF31 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:04 pm

Was WL yesterday via snail mail... Syracuse is confusing

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luuma
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby luuma » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:10 pm

Anyone know if they negotiate scholarship $? They gave me some need base but daz it. And with a sticker price at 44K and an employment rate below 50%.. ionno.

disconnected
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby disconnected » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:49 pm

I might be pulling out and staying in Florida.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby jessedvhs » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:19 pm

Anybody know a good neighborhood to live in for renting a house or large apt?
That is relatively close to campus and still not 'hood?

adidas3404
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby adidas3404 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:29 am

Try calling the school for your decision. I just did that yesterday and they verified some info and told me I was accepted over the phone. Although they said they were out of money for merit scholarships since I applied so late in the cycle, meaning I'm definitely not moving back to Syracuse at full sticker when people with my GPA and LSAT got big scholarships...

paradox
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby paradox » Tue May 01, 2012 10:01 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Anybody know a good neighborhood to live in for renting a house or large apt?
That is relatively close to campus and still not 'hood?


Consider Nob Hill Apartments and purchase a garage parking pass at the Shearton Hotel.

Nob Hill is a 5 minute ride to campus. the apartments are reasonably priced and in a crime safe area with areas to run and a swimming pool for the 1 month of warm weather. I wold not live near campus because of the crime.

Good luck.

disconnected
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby disconnected » Tue May 01, 2012 11:03 pm

Officially out. I can't leave Florida, and the cost of tuition hurts too much.
Syracuse is a very good school.

byanko
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby byanko » Tue May 08, 2012 8:07 pm

just recieved acceptance through their LEO program. Anyone have any thoughts on the program or know anyone that attended?

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jessedvhs
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby jessedvhs » Wed May 09, 2012 2:58 pm

Seems like a good thing if you've been out school for a while.
Zero cost (except your COL) and supposedly builds the legal writing acumen.

byanko
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby byanko » Wed May 09, 2012 4:34 pm

Well, lol just finished undergrad with 2.8, and 151..still waiting on replies from CUNY and Rutgers

Oski47
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby Oski47 » Fri May 11, 2012 8:16 pm

Got in today off of the waitlist, unfortunately no scholarship consideration. Not sure if I want to pay sticker but my only other option at this point is Golden Gate University at their Honors Program with a $20K/3.0 stip. Still waiting to hear back from waitlists from McGeorge/Chapman/American, and have yet to hear back from Loyola/USF.

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PitchO20
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby PitchO20 » Mon May 14, 2012 11:55 am

Hey, SUCOL made the NYTimes today! http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/14/opini ... an.html?hp

"...At the same time, law school tuition and student debt have skyrocketed. The average 2011 law graduate from Syracuse owes $132,993, not including any debt incurred for undergraduate education."

disconnected
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Re: Syracuse c/o 2015

Postby disconnected » Mon May 14, 2012 12:09 pm

Syracuse WAS the place I deposited at. But I couldn't justify the sticker price. Fortunately I got off the waiting list at another school. I was looking at $185k debt at graduation.




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