Villanova 2015 Applicants

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btowncane
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby btowncane » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 pm

Appreciate the response, thanks.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:11 pm

Copied over from the page before so people see it. In regard to the rankings:

We got audited. All our numbers are more or less 100% accurate, and probably conservative. In an odd way, it should be somewhat assuring. ITT, I've said that if you aren't top 1/3 after 1L you should probably drop out if you're financials aren't in order and you don't have a reliable connection for a job. Our employment numbers put us at ~40% employed at graduation - confirming what I knew, and what you all knew as well. Those aren't non-legal jobs, or jobs people don't want, because typically someone won't resort to something undesirable before graduation. Part of our hit in the ranking is obviously the scandal.

Something I'm still not sure how to interpret our salary data. 39.5% is confirmed, audited data. I'm assuming our median salaries are based on said data, so $100k private seems to add up in my head. Approximately 12% of our class has biglaw or similar pay for the summer (confirmed, because I'm a 2L), which is 130-145 in Philadelphia. I'm going to be somewhere between 80 and 100k (ranked 15% after 1L) after graduation assuming I don't fuck up at my job this summer, and I'm sure others are in my boat too. As a "median" number, it seems right - but it's skewed high because more people in private practice are in biglaw and thus making above it, which only reflects the top 12-13% of the class.

Long story short, the data just reflects where we realistically are. Sure, I'm infuriated that we've fallen out of the T100, but none of our peer schools have been audited - and I have friends there who say the situation is the same there at it is here.

Another anecdote, I'm interning at a large federal agency this semester and nobody there thinks Temple and Villanova are any different. My boss told me this morning that Villanova is an excellent school, and I commented that it's just "alright." She said in Philly, people love it. That's true, and it'll always be true.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby stayway » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:16 pm

In before Tarp ruins this thread.

acirilli1722
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby acirilli1722 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:16 am

Nova was definitely one of the handful of schools penalized for being honest

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h2oplyer7
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby h2oplyer7 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:58 am

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... -law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.

acirilli1722
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby acirilli1722 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:00 am

h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly

grovevilleroad
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby grovevilleroad » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:29 am

acirilli1722 wrote:The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly


Not a big fan of the rankings, as I believe employers should know the reputation of students coming out of law schools, regardless where some organization places that school on a list, and be able to make decisions about hiring. But either way, students do care about it, law schools certainly care about it, and I also believe it has an effect on employers when hiring. It dropped 40 spots in 4 years, meaning by the time 0Ls are going through OCI (assuming Nova drops according to past trends) the law school may be ranked 111, and by the time they graduate, 131. Not saying such massive drops will continue, as I am sure it will level out or hopefully even increase, but to ignore the rankings all together and pretend it has no place in decision making is foolish. Brand is only becoming more and more important and being below any threshold (in this case #100) can hurt your brand and how others perceive you, even if this drop in ranking has no real substantial impact. The loss of brand could end up creating that negative impact a year or two down the line.

cphal
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby cphal » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:09 am

h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


agreed...

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20130312
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby 20130312 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:36 am

acirilli1722 wrote:Nova was definitely one of the handful of schools penalized for being honest


They weren't honest by choice. They were audited this year and forced to report those employment numbers due to the scandal.

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PitchO20
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby PitchO20 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:50 am

Just curious, will someone report back here as to what the admissions office or dean has to say about this on ASD?

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:57 am

From Dean Gotanda this morning:

Dear Faculty, Students, and Staff,

Earlier today, U.S News & World Report announced its Best Law Schools 2013 Rankings. Villanova University School of Law was ranked #101 nationwide, 17 spots below the 2012 ranking of #84. This drop in our ranking reflects the continuing effect of the public censure issued by the American Bar Association in August 2011, regarding wrongdoing by former administrators in the reporting of admissions data. In light of this highly-publicized event, it is not surprising that the Law School’s reputational score among deans and faculty members at other law schools, which accounts for 25% of our overall score, dropped significantly this year.

It is also important to note, however, that the Law School’s reputational score among lawyers and judges remained the same as last year. This score is particularly significant for our applicants, students, and alumni, because it continues to reflect the Law School’s excellent reputation among legal employers and leaders of the bar. We will continue to work to rebuild trust and confidence in our institution within legal education, and we are gratified to know that we have a strong base of support within the practicing bar.

While I am disappointed with this year’s results, I am confident in our future vision and am certain that VSL is much stronger than our ranking indicates. Indeed, these rankings represent only a small part of what defines success for academic institutions, including the attraction of outstanding faculty and students.

The 2011-12 academic year has been an extremely promising one for the Law School with numerous indicators of success. Our continued commitment to attracting high caliber students yielded an impressive 2011 incoming class with the median GPA rising to 3.57, the highest in more than 5 years. Our recent alumni have excelled upon graduation with an over 91% first-time passage rate for the July 2011 Pennsylvania Bar Exam. Last month, National Law Journal named VSL as one of its top 50 “Go-To Law Schools,” based upon the percentage of 2011 J.D. graduates who were hired as first-year associates at the nation’s largest 250 law firms. This year also has seen an extraordinary increase in alumni giving – both in terms of a meteoric rise in the annual fund, as well as the receipt of the largest single gift in the Law School’s history.

Most importantly, while the U.S. News & World Report rankings look back at past events, Villanova University School of Law is focused intently on the future and our new Strategic Plan. The legal profession, in all of its forms, is constantly evolving and to that end, so must legal education. To ensure the vibrancy and relevance of our curriculum and programs, and the success of the Villanova Law graduate, we are examining every aspect of legal education in the twenty-first century as part of our ongoing strategic planning initiative.

I invite all members of the VSL community—alumni, students, faculty, staff, and friends—to join the conversation about the Law School’s future by visiting our Strategic Planning website to share your thoughts.

Thank you for all of your support. United with you, I can say with complete confidence that Villanova University School of Law will continue to prosper, thrive, and grow even stronger.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:40 am

InGoodFaith wrote:
acirilli1722 wrote:Nova was definitely one of the handful of schools penalized for being honest


They weren't honest by choice. They were audited this year and forced to report those employment numbers due to the scandal.

We launched the audit ourselves before the ABA was involved.

harrison_chrysler
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby harrison_chrysler » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:17 pm

acirilli1722 wrote:
h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly


That is not clear yet. In all probability, faculty who can will leave, and at #101 in USNews it will be harder to hire good faculty to replace them.

Similarly, it's hard to believe many 0Ls will turn down Temple vs Villanova this year at the same price point, and many may pick Drexel + $$$ over Villanova at sticker.

This will drive down Villanova's LSAT and GPA for next year's USNews. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:19 pm

harrison_chrysler wrote:
acirilli1722 wrote:
h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly


That is not clear yet. In all probability, faculty who can will leave, and at #101 in USNews it will be harder to hire good faculty to replace them.

Similarly, it's hard to believe many 0Ls will turn down Temple vs Villanova this year at the same price point, and many may pick Drexel + $$$ over Villanova at sticker.

This will drive down Villanova's LSAT and GPA for next year's USNews. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You should be sorry for being incorrect. Our Dean changed our policy to enroll a smaller entering class so more money is available to bring them here.

harrison_chrysler
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby harrison_chrysler » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:39 pm

beach_terror wrote:
harrison_chrysler wrote:
acirilli1722 wrote:
h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly


That is not clear yet. In all probability, faculty who can will leave, and at #101 in USNews it will be harder to hire good faculty to replace them.

Similarly, it's hard to believe many 0Ls will turn down Temple vs Villanova this year at the same price point, and many may pick Drexel + $$$ over Villanova at sticker.

This will drive down Villanova's LSAT and GPA for next year's USNews. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You should be sorry for being incorrect. Our Dean changed our policy to enroll a smaller entering class so more money is available to bring them here.



He's gonna need the extra $$.

FWIW, many schools are reducing entering class size to have more $$ for scholarships.

Hlstaggs
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby Hlstaggs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:34 pm

I will probably still attend Villanova if they offer me admission. Hopefully with the new rankings, it will give people with below median numbers a better chance.

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Sherlock1708
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby Sherlock1708 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:13 pm

Waitlisted today. Looks like Villanova is sending out their waitlist decisions now (according to LSN). I wonder what the chances are of getting off the waitlist? Location wise, this is my top choice because I want to practice in DE and my boyfriend and I wouldn't have to relocate.

grovevilleroad
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby grovevilleroad » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:03 pm

Sherlock1708 wrote:Waitlisted today. Looks like Villanova is sending out their waitlist decisions now (according to LSN). I wonder what the chances are of getting off the waitlist? Location wise, this is my top choice because I want to practice in DE and my boyfriend and I wouldn't have to relocate.


I feel some of the students with other offers who may have been considering Villanova might look at the other offers more now because of the drop in ranking (not saying that is a good reason to do so but it will probably happen), so it might be pretty easy to get off the waitlist with a LOCI.

xChiTowNx
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby xChiTowNx » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:34 am

Waitlisted too- guess my run at the public interest scholars program also ends here. if i have a half-scholly at another school in the midwest, should i even bother riding out the waitlist at nova?

nova is ranked higher than the school i have a scholly at, and nova's seat deposit deadline occurs first though. does anyone think there will be any money available if i got in off of WL?

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h2oplyer7
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby h2oplyer7 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:22 am

Withdrawing from Villanova tomorrow. After weighing my options, I don't want to pay even 15k a year for a school that is no longer ranked in the top 100.

Dr.JD
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby Dr.JD » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:43 am

TTToilet

beach_terror wrote:
harrison_chrysler wrote:
acirilli1722 wrote:
h2oplyer7 wrote:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03142

Did everyone see this? Wow, I have been waiting to make a decision. This does not bode well for Villanova.


The ranking drop doesn't change Novas rep in Philly


That is not clear yet. In all probability, faculty who can will leave, and at #101 in USNews it will be harder to hire good faculty to replace them.

Similarly, it's hard to believe many 0Ls will turn down Temple vs Villanova this year at the same price point, and many may pick Drexel + $$$ over Villanova at sticker.

This will drive down Villanova's LSAT and GPA for next year's USNews. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You should be sorry for being incorrect. Our Dean changed our policy to enroll a smaller entering class so more money is available to bring them here.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:44 am

h2oplyer7 wrote:Withdrawing from Villanova tomorrow. After weighing my options, I don't want to pay even 15k a year for a school that is no longer ranked in the top 100.

Love when people phrase things like this.

Dr.JD
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby Dr.JD » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:54 am

beach_terror wrote:
h2oplyer7 wrote:Withdrawing from Villanova tomorrow. After weighing my options, I don't want to pay even 15k a year for a school that is no longer ranked in the top 100.

Love when people phrase things like this.


Whats wrong with the way he phrased his decision? Villanova is in the toilet now. I feel your pain. It must be very frustrating graduating from a school that is dropping into the TTT but get over it. Your last few posts seem more like a desperate attempt to prop up the schools reputation and downplay the significance of the freefall Villanova finds itself in. The school made some seriously poor decisions that were a result of many staff member's poor judgement. The fact that so many individuals were in on the scam at the school combined with your willingness to downplay events that are actually very relative and important to the schools standing indicates a culture of deceit.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

Dr.JD wrote:
Whats wrong with the way he phrased his decision? Villanova is in the toilet now. I feel your pain. It must be very frustrating graduating from a school that is dropping into the TTT but get over it. Your last few posts seem more like a desperate attempt to prop up the schools reputation and downplay the significance of the freefall Villanova finds itself in. The school made some seriously poor decisions that were a result of many staff member's poor judgement. The fact that so many individuals were in on the scam at the school combined with your willingness to downplay events that are actually very relative and important to the schools standing indicates a culture of deceit.

No, I'm an independent person capable of rational thought. Our rank dropped because other academic institutions thought we deserved to be punished. Our reputation stayed the same as it was the year before with lawyers and the bench. Still #40 on the top 50 to go law school lists. I've never made a desperate attempt to "prop up" our reputation. I said if you aren't in the top 1/3 you should drop out. Nice try though, bro.

I commented on his phrasing because our overall number doesn't matter.

GatorCTS
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Re: Villanova 2015 Applicants

Postby GatorCTS » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:00 pm

I got waitlisted yesterday too. Its not my top choice but i was still hoping to get in. Might withdraw...not sure yet.




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