Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:36 pm

ajax wrote:
Ok. 200k in debt from Fordham. You said 1000/mo rent. 1500/mo loan payment (in interest, over 30 years). 80k job = 4k/mo after tax income. You now have 1500/mo after rent and loan payments. Utilities =150/mo. Transportation=100/mo. You now have 1250/mo. Food = 650/mo (this is conservative). You now have 600/mo. Entertainment? Clothing? Dry cleaning? Do you plan on saving for retirement?

My point, as in many of the others who are "complainers", is that Fordham does not come close to making sense financially. Many "complainers" would love to attend Fordham, and they are hurt because it's costs are way out of wack with it's employment statistics.


living on $1250/month is really, really easy. i lived on less for 5 years, and live on less right now.

i'm not sure who is telling you you can't complain, or that the general idea of what you're saying is crazy. it's more about...why? why do you think we don't know this? why do you feel the need to tell us?

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:37 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. 200k in debt from Fordham. You said 1000/mo rent. 1500/mo loan payment (in interest, over 30 years). 80k job = 4k/mo after tax income. You now have 1500/mo after rent and loan payments. Utilities =150/mo. Transportation=100/mo. You now have 1250/mo. Food = 650/mo (this is conservative). You now have 600/mo. Entertainment? Clothing? Dry cleaning? Do you plan on saving for retirement?

My point, as in many of the others who are "complainers", is that Fordham does not come close to making sense financially. Many "complainers" would love to attend Fordham, and they are hurt because it's costs are way out of wack with it's employment statistics.


living on $1250/month is really, really easy. i lived on less for 5 years, and live on less right now.

i'm not sure who is telling you you can't complain, or that the general idea of what you're saying is crazy. it's more about...why? why do you think we don't know this? why do you feel the need to tell us?



It's actually very, very, very hard to live on 1250/month in NYC. Or it's boroughs. Try again.

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:38 pm

ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. 200k in debt from Fordham. You said 1000/mo rent. 1500/mo loan payment (in interest, over 30 years). 80k job = 4k/mo after tax income. You now have 1500/mo after rent and loan payments. Utilities =150/mo. Transportation=100/mo. You now have 1250/mo. Food = 650/mo (this is conservative). You now have 600/mo. Entertainment? Clothing? Dry cleaning? Do you plan on saving for retirement?

My point, as in many of the others who are "complainers", is that Fordham does not come close to making sense financially. Many "complainers" would love to attend Fordham, and they are hurt because it's costs are way out of wack with it's employment statistics.


living on $1250/month is really, really easy. i lived on less for 5 years, and live on less right now.

i'm not sure who is telling you you can't complain, or that the general idea of what you're saying is crazy. it's more about...why? why do you think we don't know this? why do you feel the need to tell us?



It's actually very, very, very hard to live on 1250/month in NYC. Or it's boroughs. Try again.

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:40 pm

sorry to everyone else in the thread. can't stop, won't stop.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:42 pm

ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. 200k in debt from Fordham. You said 1000/mo rent. 1500/mo loan payment (in interest, over 30 years). 80k job = 4k/mo after tax income. You now have 1500/mo after rent and loan payments. Utilities =150/mo. Transportation=100/mo. You now have 1250/mo. Food = 650/mo (this is conservative). You now have 600/mo. Entertainment? Clothing? Dry cleaning? Do you plan on saving for retirement?

My point, as in many of the others who are "complainers", is that Fordham does not come close to making sense financially. Many "complainers" would love to attend Fordham, and they are hurt because it's costs are way out of wack with it's employment statistics.


living on $1250/month is really, really easy. i lived on less for 5 years, and live on less right now.

i'm not sure who is telling you you can't complain, or that the general idea of what you're saying is crazy. it's more about...why? why do you think we don't know this? why do you feel the need to tell us?



It's actually very, very, very hard to live on 1250/month in NYC. Or it's boroughs. Try again.



My god Ajax, chill. Ever consider you are free to leave NYC should money be an issue? The catskills are beautiful and cheap. The Berkshires are very nice too. Hang your shingle and become a country lawyer! Dress like Matlock! There's a whole country out there.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:44 pm

The Unabomber lived on $300 per year. Should biglaw slip through your fingers.... Learn to trap rabbits and read by sunlight. Just... don't blow anyone up.

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:50 pm

facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:55 pm

Stringer6 wrote:sorry to everyone else in the thread. can't stop, won't stop.


Don't stop Stringer, you GO!

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:56 pm

MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:01 pm

ajax wrote:
ned wrote:
ajax wrote:
There are no dream schools. We all have to write our own tickets. The world is not binary. It's a good, solid school in NYC. Nuf said.

(I feel like the protagonist at the end of a zombie movie.)


No one is claiming Fordham is a bad school. I believe you are having trouble spotting the issue. The issue is whether or not Fordham is worth 150k sticker plus cost of living. The answer to the issue is no.


This zombie is trying to eat my brain! Looks like someone started to read getting to maybe!

Fine, it's a quiet day so I won't ignore you.

What is a reasonable monthly loan payment for a Fordham grad to pay 3 years from now? I assume you've made the analysis and came up with a universally appropriate number. Do tell.


The monthly loan payment on 200k of debt (very low estimate, if you pay sticker you'll likely come out owing 250k) is roughly 1500/mo over 30 years (this is only interest, to pay down your loan you will have to pay more). [/quote]actually, the roughly $1500 ($1,479 if the interest rate is 7.8%) does pay down the loan over 30 years. Interest only is $1,347.50
$1,683 pays off in 20 years, $1,921 in 15 years and $2,435 in 10 years.

Anyone paying over two grand s month to live on their own in manhattan is living it up. You can find a nice one bedroom in a good part of town for less.

Let's say remaining expenses are $1,340 ($200/wk on food, subway utilities and some spending money), bringing your total to $4,820
This requires a pre-tax salary of $80,000 per year.

Make what you will of this information
Last edited by dingbat on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DTDT
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby DTDT » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:01 pm

I've had a roomate since birth and now I have 2 (A wife and daughter).

Manhattan isn't meant for everyone including many attorneys.

Whoever said don't live above 90th street is a f'n moron. I guess Columbia never made your wish list?

I do agree that tuition is high for all law schools, which is good to weed out the weak. Hopefully a few more years of people not going or going to bottom tier schools subsidized will make the prospects for big law better. Hopefully they will get rid of government loans next!

PS. Can't wait to read these guys say "In off the W/L, see you in August!"

what_the_what
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby what_the_what » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:04 pm

ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


That number does concern me. Would you be comfortable saying that 60%,(50/40/30 even) of the class falls under the "prefer not to work as attorney" category?

That being said, when I was on my tour in April I was told that of the rising 3Ls, at least 30% had jobs at large firms (don't want to say biglaw because I don't remember if that was what he said). He said that the market for his class is definitely much better than for the class before him.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt, since anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence, but it was nice to hear him being optimistic.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:11 pm

what_the_what wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


That number does concern me. Would you be comfortable saying that 60%,(50/40/30 even) of the class falls under the "prefer not to work as attorney" category?

That being said, when I was on my tour in April I was told that of the rising 3Ls, at least 30% had jobs at large firms (don't want to say biglaw because I don't remember if that was what he said). He said that the market for his class is definitely much better than for the class before him.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt, since anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence, but it was nice to hear him being optimistic.


I agree it is a major concern, but it is a number without context. Would be great if schools tracked that 40% every year with an update.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:13 pm

First of all, yall do realize that the average grad nationwide is having an issue finding work as an attorney. You want a cheap #29 ranked law school, go to Bama and get in state tuition. Bama's a good school BUT you better be ready to live there. Oh, and big law there pays about half what it does in NYC. The CoL is about half as well but even with HALF the loans you might have at Fordham your money problems will be about the same.

Then there is Hofstra which costs about the same as Fordham and has people paying sticker. Perhaps your time might be better spent enlightening them as to the dangers. I am pretty sure there are Pace and St Johns threads on here as well. When it comes down to it whether someone thinks Fordham is worth sticker or not is a personal choice. They SHOULD be educated about it by this point in the game so ALL your hate rants seem to be doing is trying to get others to think the way YOU think and maybe validate your own decisions.

There are other ways to pay for LS than loans btw so assuming everyone that doesn't get merit aid is paying sticker is simply false. Seriously, don't want to pay sticker, go join the Uncle Sam fight team and poof, free law school. There are other ways as well.

20% has been thrown around a lot here but that is about as low as Fordham's biglaw placement has been so YMMV upon graduating in 2015.

And then there is 60% that do have JD jobs. Yeah yeah yeah, you cannot predict where you will be in LS but if I can't make the top 60% then I maybe I need to be doing something else.

102 pages, is there another school thread on here that generates the level of passion here? I don't think there is.

JC

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:30 pm

what_the_what wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


That number does concern me. Would you be comfortable saying that 60%,(50/40/30 even) of the class falls under the "prefer not to work as attorney" category?

That being said, when I was on my tour in April I was told that of the rising 3Ls, at least 30% had jobs at large firms (don't want to say biglaw because I don't remember if that was what he said). He said that the market for his class is definitely much better than for the class before him.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt, since anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence, but it was nice to hear him being optimistic.


Fordham's stats dont stand out. Its falls similar to many schools. I think its a bit of a reach to say 40% of all law grads in the top 30 schools are all giving up on lawyer jobs so they can do the various options you describe. Everyone has been saying the job market is picking up for the last 3 years. Will it just go up and up forever or will gravity act?

law2015
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby law2015 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:37 pm

ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


LOL. Most of those people chose those options after not finding legal employment. More appealing job opportunities? What are those?

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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:40 pm

law2015 wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


LOL. Most of those people chose those options after not finding legal employment. More appealing job opportunities? What are those?

Stripper, waitress, retail. Stop being so narrow minded. I found there's a real market for high end prostitutes with a JD.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:43 pm

JenDarby wrote:
law2015 wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


LOL. Most of those people chose those options after not finding legal employment. More appealing job opportunities? What are those?

Stripper, waitress, retail. Stop being so narrow minded. I found there's a real market for high end prostitutes with a JD.


Sweeeeeet, so all I need is the JD to actually have women answer my 2K/night craigslist ad?

law2015
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby law2015 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:48 pm

JenDarby wrote:
law2015 wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


LOL. Most of those people chose those options after not finding legal employment. More appealing job opportunities? What are those?

Stripper, waitress, retail. Stop being so narrow minded. I found there's a real market for high end prostitutes with a JD.


LMAO, I guess you are right. Legal education drives people to excel in those areas post graduation. "High end prostitutes with a JD", i wont even address that statement lol, but to even try one would have to really expand the mind.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:52 pm

JenDarby wrote:
law2015 wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


LOL. Most of those people chose those options after not finding legal employment. More appealing job opportunities? What are those?

Stripper, waitress, retail. Stop being so narrow minded. I found there's a real market for high end prostitutes with a JD.


15% struggling novelists
10% journalism/blogging
15% Hollywood

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:01 pm

ned wrote:
15% struggling novelists
10% journalism/blogging
15% Hollywood


You left out starving artists. But at least I can file suit against anyone that steals my copyrighted work then.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:05 pm

JCFindley wrote:
ned wrote:
15% struggling novelists
10% journalism/blogging
15% Hollywood


You left out starving artists. But at least I can file suit against anyone that steals my copyrighted work then.


And bankruptcy no longer carries the stigma it used to! Alright I'm going home. Feel like I need a shower after all this!

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:43 pm

what_the_what wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:facts are facts. what do they say? 40% are not finding attorney work.

Actually, "finding" is your interpretation. How many "prefer" not to work as attorney due to things like other more appealing opportunities, loss of interest in being a lawyer, getting pregnant/ parental leave, being a trust-fund kid not needing a job, taking a year to travel, getting a PhD, or building a cabin in the woods?

40% is a fact. The rest is your projection.


That number does concern me. Would you be comfortable saying that 60%,(50/40/30 even) of the class falls under the "prefer not to work as attorney" category?

That being said, when I was on my tour in April I was told that of the rising 3Ls, at least 30% had jobs at large firms (don't want to say biglaw because I don't remember if that was what he said). He said that the market for his class is definitely much better than for the class before him.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt, since anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence, but it was nice to hear him being optimistic.



So. You fail to recognize the 40% number reported by law schools to the ABA. However, you do recognize anecdotal evidence given to you by a rising 3L. You can stop there.

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:48 pm

^ Says the 0L with a...163? trolling a law school waiting thread. It's a tough time to pursue a legal career (among others)? THIS IS ENTIRELY NEW INFORMATION. This is not unique to Fordham. Why don't you take your shit on the road and hit up all the other threads as well.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:53 pm

^ Says my hero.......

JenDarby wrote:^ Says the 0L with a...163? trolling a law school waiting thread. It's a tough time to pursue a legal career (among others)? THIS IS ENTIRELY NEW INFORMATION. This is not unique to Fordham. Why don't you take your shit on the road and hit up all the other threads as well.




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