Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm

law2015 wrote:Fordham is not a wise choice at anything close to sticker price. The fact that the school has bad job prospects and does not give out merit scholly will mean doom to many graduating in three years. Fordham is also not competitive in recruiting students because peer schools just give out more money. In this economy people consider scholly money a lot more than in previous cycles and I would assume that with the drop in applicants Fordham's numbers for this class will be lower dropping them in the rankings.


no

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:51 pm

ned wrote:
ajax wrote:
ned wrote:
MrAnon wrote:If, in the face of these stats, people still identify Fordham as a dream school, the school will not have to give out money.


There are no dream schools. We all have to write our own tickets. The world is not binary. It's a good, solid school in NYC. Nuf said.

(I feel like the protagonist at the end of a zombie movie.)


No one is claiming Fordham is a bad school. I believe you are having trouble spotting the issue. The issue is whether or not Fordham is worth 150k sticker plus cost of living. The answer to the issue is no.


This zombie is trying to eat my brain! Looks like someone started to read getting to maybe!

Fine, it's a quiet day so I won't ignore you.

What is a reasonable monthly loan payment for a Fordham grad to pay 3 years from now? I assume you've made the analysis and came up with a universally appropriate number. Do tell.


The monthly loan payment on 200k of debt (very low estimate, if you pay sticker you'll likely come out owing 250k) is roughly 1500/mo over 30 years (this is only interest, to pay down your loan you will have to pay more). A shorter duration and it's larger /mo. Rent in Hoboken, not Manhattan, for a decent one bedroom is 2200/mo. For manhattan, an upper east side studio is getting close to 3000. After taxes 160,000 salary comes to, I forget, something around 8500/mo? If you live in NYC, or a borough, it's 3 percent less than that because of the NYC income tax.

If you make BigLaw, you can pay down your loan. If you make 80,000/year, which is roughly 4k/mo, you will not be able to make loan and rent payments without living in the ghetto. If you like the ghetto, more power to you. Making 120k, if these jobs do exist, will barely be enough for you in NYC.

Long story short, you sure as hell better land a biglaw gig if you're paying sticker. Fordham puts roughly 20% of it's graduating class into biglaw. Sure, that's great compared to other schools, but over half of Fordham's class is getting no aid. So some people are going to be screwed regardless (unless mommy and daddy pay the bill).

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:54 pm

:lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:01 pm

JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.



Good for you. That is below market.

Regardless, it still doesn't add up. So you pay 1850/mo rent. Then you have a 1500/mo loan payment after 200k in the hole. That's 3350/mo. Say you land a gig paying 80k, your after tax income in NYC is 4k. That's a massive 650.00 after rent and interest payment on your loan!!! 2 bucks a day for the subway? No problem, that's another 80/mo. Utilities? Let's call it 100 total a month, just for fun, even though time warner charges more than 100 alone. So that takes us to what, 470 left over? O yeah, we musn't forget about feeding ourselves. Well, that's well above 470/mo in NYC. Clothing? Better get some wear out of what you own...

O yeah, that's right though. No one at Fordham is paying sticker, and anyone who is is going to pay sticker is landing big law. So no one will be royally screwed.

Someone please tell me again that those who got into Fordham without aid have no right to complain with only 20% getting big law.
Last edited by ajax on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:03 pm

JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Yeah, I think you need to look at life with a bit more flexibility. You don't need a luxury apartment. I live in a beautiful area in a very small 2 bedroom that needed some tlc. Unless you plan on being single your whole life, cut your costs in half and shack up with a beautiful woman. My wife and I each kick in $1100 for a safe quiet place in a great part of Brooklyn. It's not a tiny apartment. I like to think of it as a beached yacht 1/2 a block from a convenient subway station.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:08 pm

MrAnon wrote:
JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.



No kidding.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence for those who care about rent costs in manhattan.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/manhattan,- ... ect/11_zm/

Note that you don't want to live above 90th street.

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:09 pm

MrAnon wrote:
JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.

I have never had a roommate, so I definitely agree with this. I live with my SO.

I would never claim NY isn't severely overpriced, but you definitely can do way better than 3k for a studio on the UES.

I live in the high 70s/low 80s, but I would absolutely live above 90 and have many friends who are very happy up there.
Last edited by JenDarby on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:10 pm

Also, haven't you heard of income-contingent payment? And for people in PI/Gov't, there is loan forgiveness. So really, I don't think you are coming at this with an open mind. You have a conclusion you are trying desperately to support despite the facts.

And don't use zillow to find a good deal. friends, craigslist, and luck.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:11 pm

ajax wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.



No kidding.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence for those who care about rent costs in manhattan.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/manhattan,- ... ect/11_zm/

Note that you don't want to live above 90th street.


It wouldn't kill you if you had to...

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:16 pm

edit b/c i posted in the wrong thread

but i love posts that teach me about NYC. carry on.
Last edited by Stringer6 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:16 pm

ned wrote:Also, haven't you heard of income-contingent payment? And for people in PI/Gov't, there is loan forgiveness. So really, I don't think you are coming at this with an open mind. You have a conclusion you are trying desperately to support despite the facts.

And don't use zillow to find a good deal. friends, craigslist, and luck.


LOL. Ok, next time I'll post a craigslist ad. Zillow is still better than some anecdotal bs.

As far as IBR, there is no guarantee that will remain in existence. Even if it does, you are basically going to be a slave the rest of your life. O, and by the way, if you get out of IBR around year 7 because you managed to lateral to big law, all of that interest that you weren't paying per month has now joined your original loan balance. Then you owe 400k, instead of 200k.

As for this gem of a statement, "You have a conclusion you are trying desperately to support despite the facts." I should say the same about you. I am showing you facts. What facts are you showing me?

law2015
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby law2015 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:18 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
law2015 wrote:Fordham is not a wise choice at anything close to sticker price. The fact that the school has bad job prospects and does not give out merit scholly will mean doom to many graduating in three years. Fordham is also not competitive in recruiting students because peer schools just give out more money. In this economy people consider scholly money a lot more than in previous cycles and I would assume that with the drop in applicants Fordham's numbers for this class will be lower dropping them in the rankings.


no


Great insight and thank you for your opinion. At sticker, Fordham costs 250k. That is hard to pay with a big law salary, without is nearly impossible. Fordham's employment prospects are shitty and are not worth paying 250k for. This is not to say
Fordham is a bad choice for everybody or is a bad school, to some it may be worth it. Idk why some people in this thread get so offended but if patting each other on the back and reassuring each other that everything will be alright makes you feel better then by all means go for it.

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:19 pm

ajax wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.



No kidding.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence for those who care about rent costs in manhattan.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/manhattan,- ... ect/11_zm/

Note that you don't want to live above 90th street.


have you explored rental markets outside of manhattan? like the other boroughs? not sure why you singled out Hoboken.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:20 pm

I've spent the last several years basically doing the starving artist thing. I have been living the facts. It's rough, constantly scrounging. But I make it work, no matter what. The vast majority of NYC makes less than the bottom rung of law school graduate. I could wind up in a job that pays 1/3 what biglaw pays and I'd be in okay shape. I'd be disappointed not to be wealthy, but I'd be able to support myself and my kid, to enjoy time with my wife, and hopefully I'd be doing something relatively fulfilling should biglaw not be a realistic option. What an awful scenario!

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:20 pm

law2015 wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
law2015 wrote:Fordham is not a wise choice at anything close to sticker price. The fact that the school has bad job prospects and does not give out merit scholly will mean doom to many graduating in three years. Fordham is also not competitive in recruiting students because peer schools just give out more money. In this economy people consider scholly money a lot more than in previous cycles and I would assume that with the drop in applicants Fordham's numbers for this class will be lower dropping them in the rankings.


no


Great insight and thank you for your opinion. At sticker, Fordham costs 250k. That is hard to pay with a big law salary, without is nearly impossible. Fordham's employment prospects are shitty and are not worth paying 250k for. This is not to say
Fordham is a bad choice for everybody or is a bad school, to some it may be worth it. Idk why some people in this thread get so offended but if patting each other on the back and reassuring each other that everything will be alright makes you feel better then by all means go for it.


see what i bolded in the first quote? that means i disagree with that part of what you said. fordham isn't dropping the rankings, and it's not going to.

i also disagree that that debt is hard to pay with a big law salary.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:22 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
JenDarby wrote::lol:

3000 for a studio?? I live in a true 2 bedroom/2 bath in a lovely brown stone on the UWS for 3700/mo. You've failed miserably at apt hunting if you're living in a studio for 3000 on the UES.

Also there was definitely cheaper to be had, but my place is objectively pretty damn nice.


Its nice to have a roommate while you are in school, or even grad school I suppose, but not so much later in life.



No kidding.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence for those who care about rent costs in manhattan.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/manhattan,- ... ect/11_zm/

Note that you don't want to live above 90th street.


have you explored rental markets outside of manhattan? like the other boroughs? not sure why you singled out Hoboken.


Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:23 pm

ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)

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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:26 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)


LOL. Ok, so you choose evasion.

Is anyone in this thread actually looking into the prospect of being over 200k in the hole with a job in the 50k-70k range in NYC? This is the LIKELY outcome of Fordham law. If you attend, you should probably first research if the likely outcome is economically feasible. If it is, sure take a shot at big law, and fall back on something 50k-70k if you miss. If it's not feasible, do I even need to tell you what decision needs to be made?
Last edited by ajax on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:27 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)

+1

All these people live in a binary world of dream/nightmare

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:27 pm

ned wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)

+1

All these people live in a binary world of dream/nightmare


Haha, maybe it's because starting salaries in law are binary? Haha, wait no maybe it's not funny.

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Stringer6
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:28 pm

ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)


LOL. Ok, so you choose evasion.

Is anyone in this thread actually looking into the prospects of being over 200k in the hole with a job in the 50k-70k range in NYC? This is the LIKELY outcome of Fordham law. If you attend, you should probably first research if the likely outcome is economically feasible. If it is, sure take a shot at big law, and fall back on something 50k-70k if you miss. If it's not feasible, do I even need to tell you what decision needs to be made?


ok ok. well right now i live in a $1k/month apartment, not in the ghetto. will you stop now? why do you even care? it's creepy.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:30 pm

ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)


LOL. Ok, so you choose evasion.

Is anyone in this thread actually looking into the prospects of being over 200k in the hole with a job in the 50k-70k range in NYC? This is the LIKELY outcome of Fordham law. If you attend, you should probably first research if the likely outcome is economically feasible. If it is, sure take a shot at big law, and fall back on something 50k-70k if you miss. If it's not feasible, do I even need to tell you what decision needs to be made?


1) starting salary is not permanent
2) gov't loans have flexible repayment options
3) nobody is gonna hand you a pot of gold. quit yer bitchin.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:33 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)


LOL. Ok, so you choose evasion.

Is anyone in this thread actually looking into the prospects of being over 200k in the hole with a job in the 50k-70k range in NYC? This is the LIKELY outcome of Fordham law. If you attend, you should probably first research if the likely outcome is economically feasible. If it is, sure take a shot at big law, and fall back on something 50k-70k if you miss. If it's not feasible, do I even need to tell you what decision needs to be made?


ok ok. well right now i live in a $1k/month apartment, not in the ghetto. will you stop now? why do you even care? it's creepy.


Ok. 200k in debt from Fordham. You said 1000/mo rent. 1500/mo loan payment (in interest, over 30 years). 80k job = 4k/mo after tax income. You now have 1500/mo after rent and loan payments. Utilities =150/mo. Transportation=100/mo. You now have 1250/mo. Food = 650/mo (this is conservative). You now have 600/mo. Entertainment? Clothing? Dry cleaning? Do you plan on saving for retirement?

My point, as in many of the others who are "complainers", is that Fordham does not come close to making sense financially. Many "complainers" would love to attend Fordham, and they are hurt because it's costs are way out of wack with it's employment statistics.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:36 pm

ned wrote:
ajax wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
ajax wrote:
Ok. How about we do this. You find me a craigslist ad of an apartment that would make sense for someone graduating from Fordham law with 200k in debt making 80k/year. It's going to be in the ghetto.


haha no thanks, bb! this is your obsession.

(i won't get into how absurd your idea of a "ghetto" likely is)


LOL. Ok, so you choose evasion.

Is anyone in this thread actually looking into the prospects of being over 200k in the hole with a job in the 50k-70k range in NYC? This is the LIKELY outcome of Fordham law. If you attend, you should probably first research if the likely outcome is economically feasible. If it is, sure take a shot at big law, and fall back on something 50k-70k if you miss. If it's not feasible, do I even need to tell you what decision needs to be made?


1) starting salary is not permanent
2) gov't loans have flexible repayment options
3) nobody is gonna hand you a pot of gold. quit yer bitchin.



1) Attorney wages are not seen as keeping up with inflation in the foreseeable future.
2) If by flexible you mean cannot be discharged, then sure.
3) Who said someone should hand someone a pot of gold? Most schools in the top-14 give more aid. Is asking for aid akin to asking for a pot of gold?
Last edited by ajax on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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