Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Mixed bag? Yes. Joke? No.

http://law.fordham.edu/assets/CareerPla ... t_9mos.pdf[/quote]
It's hard to decidedly interpret this data. It's never completely transparent, which is a big problem with employment data. It's possible, even likely that at least some of those non JD required jobs were advantageous or preferable to the students.[/quote]

not to mention that everyone knows 2011 was the worst year for law school grads (2009 OCI) ... I'm not the most wishful thinker and I'm not saying the legal market is going to rebound to where it was a decade ago, or even close for that matter, but it definitely will improve from 2011.[/quote]


Generally when a trader decides to buy a security, whether it be a stock, bond, or commodity, he generally gives himself 4 ins. In a nutshell, if he wants to buy 1000 shares, he buys 250 shares at 4 different prices levels. This is because buying the bottom is near impossible.

Just because 2011 was the worst year in terms of legal hiring, doesn't mean that 2013 won't be any worse. 2014 could be much, much worse. The general sentiment of the past four years has been to buy houses, because home prices have never been so low. Well if you bought three years ago, prices came down two years ago. Then they came down one year ago. And home prices continue to drop today.

The point is, you are likely not buying the bottom by attending Fordham this fall. I mean this as a friendly heads up. In fact, I wouldn't mind attending Fordham at some time in the future, but I'm going to wait for a credible (more than one year) uptrend in the legal market first.[/quote]

while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.[/quote]

And often times a slight up-tick is a great time to put on a massive short position.

Listen. Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just make sure you're going for the right reasons.

TLSwag
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby TLSwag » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:05 pm

ajax wrote:Mixed bag? Yes. Joke? No.

http://law.fordham.edu/assets/CareerPla ... t_9mos.pdf

It's hard to decidedly interpret this data. It's never completely transparent, which is a big problem with employment data. It's possible, even likely that at least some of those non JD required jobs were advantageous or preferable to the students.[/quote]

not to mention that everyone knows 2011 was the worst year for law school grads (2009 OCI) ... I'm not the most wishful thinker and I'm not saying the legal market is going to rebound to where it was a decade ago, or even close for that matter, but it definitely will improve from 2011.[/quote]


Generally when a trader decides to buy a security, whether it be a stock, bond, or commodity, he generally gives himself 4 ins. In a nutshell, if he wants to buy 1000 shares, he buys 250 shares at 4 different prices levels. This is because buying the bottom is near impossible.

Just because 2011 was the worst year in terms of legal hiring, doesn't mean that 2013 won't be any worse. 2014 could be much, much worse. The general sentiment of the past four years has been to buy houses, because home prices have never been so low. Well if you bought three years ago, prices came down two years ago. Then they came down one year ago. And home prices continue to drop today.

The point is, you are likely not buying the bottom by attending Fordham this fall. I mean this as a friendly heads up. In fact, I wouldn't mind attending Fordham at some time in the future, but I'm going to wait for a credible (more than one year) uptrend in the legal market first.[/quote]

while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.[/quote]

And often times a slight up-tick is a great time to put on a massive short position.

Listen. Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just make sure you're going for the right reasons.[/quote]

well ajax, while i appreciate your concern, i am not attending fordham law in the fall (or even basing any law school related decisions) because i think 2011 was a dry spot in associate hiring... if that answers your question.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:07 pm

while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.[/quote]

Also, TLSswag, that analogy was both relevant, and significant (on top of being creative thank you very much). Not once did I discuss trends in the real estate market being similar to trends in the law school hiring market. All I stated was an example of how a market can keep selling off when everyone thinks it's the low.

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:17 pm

TLSwag wrote:
ajax wrote:
Generally when a trader decides to buy a security, whether it be a stock, bond, or commodity, he generally gives himself 4 ins. In a nutshell, if he wants to buy 1000 shares, he buys 250 shares at 4 different prices levels. This is because buying the bottom is near impossible.

Just because 2011 was the worst year in terms of legal hiring, doesn't mean that 2013 won't be any worse. 2014 could be much, much worse. The general sentiment of the past four years has been to buy houses, because home prices have never been so low. Well if you bought three years ago, prices came down two years ago. Then they came down one year ago. And home prices continue to drop today.

The point is, you are likely not buying the bottom by attending Fordham this fall. I mean this as a friendly heads up. In fact, I wouldn't mind attending Fordham at some time in the future, but I'm going to wait for a credible (more than one year) uptrend in the legal market first.


while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.

not to mention the fact that it is wrong. Most traders buy in one order.
They may break up a particularly large order, so as not to cause an imbalance in the market

Some investors use dollar-cost averaging when they invest. This involves regular payments over a fixed period of time, which smooths out any short-term fluctuations.
More often than not, this is used as a payment plan than as a trading strategy.

While it is true that it is impossible to truly recognize when a price has bottomed out (says a happy homeowner whose house is worth less than the purchase price) that doesn't mean waiting until the market is in recovery before wading in.
Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread with lessons on basic investment strategies.

If you're not interested, there are better places to be.
To everyone who will be attending - 2 more months! Woohoo

(and to all you waitlisters, good luck)

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:44 pm

dingbat wrote:
TLSwag wrote:
ajax wrote:
Generally when a trader decides to buy a security, whether it be a stock, bond, or commodity, he generally gives himself 4 ins. In a nutshell, if he wants to buy 1000 shares, he buys 250 shares at 4 different prices levels. This is because buying the bottom is near impossible.

Just because 2011 was the worst year in terms of legal hiring, doesn't mean that 2013 won't be any worse. 2014 could be much, much worse. The general sentiment of the past four years has been to buy houses, because home prices have never been so low. Well if you bought three years ago, prices came down two years ago. Then they came down one year ago. And home prices continue to drop today.

The point is, you are likely not buying the bottom by attending Fordham this fall. I mean this as a friendly heads up. In fact, I wouldn't mind attending Fordham at some time in the future, but I'm going to wait for a credible (more than one year) uptrend in the legal market first.


while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.

not to mention the fact that it is wrong. Most traders buy in one order.
They may break up a particularly large order, so as not to cause an imbalance in the market

Some investors use dollar-cost averaging when they invest. This involves regular payments over a fixed period of time, which smooths out any short-term fluctuations.
More often than not, this is used as a payment plan than as a trading strategy.

While it is true that it is impossible to truly recognize when a price has bottomed out (says a happy homeowner whose house is worth less than the purchase price) that doesn't mean waiting until the market is in recovery before wading in.
Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread with lessons on basic investment strategies.

If you're not interested, there are better places to be.
To everyone who will be attending - 2 more months! Woohoo

(and to all you waitlisters, good luck)


Most traders do not buy in one order, unless you are considering retail traders. I should have been more specific, I was referring to professional traders.

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:46 pm

dingbat wrote:
TLSwag wrote:
ajax wrote:
Generally when a trader decides to buy a security, whether it be a stock, bond, or commodity, he generally gives himself 4 ins. In a nutshell, if he wants to buy 1000 shares, he buys 250 shares at 4 different prices levels. This is because buying the bottom is near impossible.

Just because 2011 was the worst year in terms of legal hiring, doesn't mean that 2013 won't be any worse. 2014 could be much, much worse. The general sentiment of the past four years has been to buy houses, because home prices have never been so low. Well if you bought three years ago, prices came down two years ago. Then they came down one year ago. And home prices continue to drop today.

The point is, you are likely not buying the bottom by attending Fordham this fall. I mean this as a friendly heads up. In fact, I wouldn't mind attending Fordham at some time in the future, but I'm going to wait for a credible (more than one year) uptrend in the legal market first.


while that was a creative analogy, it was also one without significant relevance. the real estate market can not be compared that extensively to law school trends. you have a point, which i in fact conceded in my previous post, however, you are ignoring data (beyond anecdotal evidence) that points to at least a slight up-stick in the legal market for the coming year.

not to mention the fact that it is wrong. Most traders buy in one order.
They may break up a particularly large order, so as not to cause an imbalance in the market

Some investors use dollar-cost averaging when they invest. This involves regular payments over a fixed period of time, which smooths out any short-term fluctuations.
More often than not, this is used as a payment plan than as a trading strategy.

While it is true that it is impossible to truly recognize when a price has bottomed out (says a happy homeowner whose house is worth less than the purchase price) that doesn't mean waiting until the market is in recovery before wading in.
Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread with lessons on basic investment strategies.

If you're not interested, there are better places to be.
To everyone who will be attending - 2 more months! Woohoo

(and to all you waitlisters, good luck)



Also, because the legal hiring market is more sticky than a liquid securities market (meaning it takes a longer period to change a trend), it is actually a solid strategy to wait until a credible rebound in the legal hiring market before attending.

Have at it though, brah. Your reasoning is solid. I'm sure you'll perform well! No way the market can be worse than 2011!

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:59 pm

ajax wrote:Most traders do not buy in one order, unless you are considering retail traders. I should have been more specific, I was referring to professional traders.

please enlighten me more about how traders operate.
I'm learning something new here...
(also, where do you get this knowledge from?)

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SDPalmTree
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby SDPalmTree » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Wow, the last couple of pages have been completely off topic. Do we still have any WL-ers listening in, and has there been any movement on the acceptance/rejection front? I'm always glad to hear about new classmates for the fall!

And among the already accepted students... How many others are San Diego natives? Maybe we could start a Law School group. Or a drinking group at least...

DTDT
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby DTDT » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:28 am

The trading analogy is broken. You plan on legging into your law degree? That's dumb.

I'm planning on attending in the Fall and hopefully I can take some profits by 2L and hold a small short into year 3 vs my long Cornell 2L.

PS I am not a SD native but I've been to Coronado twice. I'm sorry for the future weather you will experience here in NYC.

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SDPalmTree
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby SDPalmTree » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:22 pm

DTDT wrote:I am not a SD native but I've been to Coronado twice. I'm sorry for the future weather you will experience here in NYC.


Lived in Oregon for a couple of years recently and it greeted me with 8 months of solid cloud cover, rain, and more rain. I doubt it compares to snow, but at least I already know how to resign myself to living in miserable weather.

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:47 pm

DTDT wrote:The trading analogy is broken. You plan on legging into your law degree? That's dumb.

I'm planning on attending in the Fall and hopefully I can take some profits by 2L and hold a small short into year 3 vs my long Cornell 2L.

PS I am not a SD native but I've been to Coronado twice. I'm sorry for the future weather you will experience here in NYC.


I will approach my law school decision with a derivatives trading analogy. For my 1L, I'm going with a call on Dec 2012 and also May 2013. But I'm gonna offset that risk with some long-term puts for 2L and 3L, just in case the job market takes another dive. Meanwhile, I'll set up an iron condor over each summer and earn premium from Fordham's off-season volatility. Once I'm within a couple months of graduation, I'll go heavy into the May 2015 calls at 130 and 145. So if I wind up with biglaw, I'm set, but if I wind up somewhere else, I'm still covered.

rkh235
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby rkh235 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:34 pm

hey attending fordham law students on this (currently off topic) thread...

advice on if AEP is worth it?? it cost $0 and im in the city anyways but its the 2 weeks before orientation so initially i was planning on partying wayyy too much lol. how helpful is it really?

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:41 pm

rkh235 wrote:hey attending fordham law students on this (currently off topic) thread...

advice on if AEP is worth it?? it cost $0 and im in the city anyways but its the 2 weeks before orientation so initially i was planning on partying wayyy too much lol. how helpful is it really?

Alright, so I didn't do AEP, but a good friend of mine did (I'll see if I can get her to return here and post). She enjoyed it and found it helpful. I for one am so glad she did it. They planned bar nights so we all went out and got wasted every night. Its a great way to meet people before school starts. Also, you will make friends outside of your section, which doesn't always happen otherwise.

That being said, it's certainly not necessary. If you had other plans, I wouldn't forgo them for AEP. There's no real trend in the success of my friends, as far as who did and who did not do AEP. You "learn" as you go and aren't graded until December. AEP will teach you how to brief cases and such, but the generally orientation will do this as well (though in a more brief manner). TLS also has plenty of resources to guide you as you go.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:54 pm

JenDarby wrote:
rkh235 wrote:hey attending fordham law students on this (currently off topic) thread...

advice on if AEP is worth it?? it cost $0 and im in the city anyways but its the 2 weeks before orientation so initially i was planning on partying wayyy too much lol. how helpful is it really?

Alright, so I didn't do AEP, but a good friend of mine did (I'll see if I can get her to return here and post). She enjoyed it and found it helpful. I for one am so glad she did it. They planned bar nights so we all went out and got wasted every night. Its a great way to meet people before school starts. Also, you will make friends outside of your section, which doesn't always happen otherwise.

That being said, it's certainly not necessary. If you had other plans, I wouldn't forgo them for AEP. There's no real trend in the success of my friends, as far as who did and who did not do AEP. You "learn" as you go and aren't graded until December. AEP will teach you how to brief cases and such, but the generally orientation will do this as well (though in a more brief manner). TLS also has plenty of resources to guide you as you go.


What is AEP?

rkh235
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby rkh235 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:57 pm

academic enrichment program

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nygrrrl
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby nygrrrl » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:04 pm

JenDarby wrote:
rkh235 wrote:hey attending fordham law students on this (currently off topic) thread...

advice on if AEP is worth it?? it cost $0 and im in the city anyways but its the 2 weeks before orientation so initially i was planning on partying wayyy too much lol. how helpful is it really?

Alright, so I didn't do AEP, but a good friend of mine did (I'll see if I can get her to return here and post). She enjoyed it and found it helpful. I for one am so glad she did it. They planned bar nights so we all went out and got wasted every night. Its a great way to meet people before school starts. Also, you will make friends outside of your section, which doesn't always happen otherwise.

That being said, it's certainly not necessary. If you had other plans, I wouldn't forgo them for AEP. There's no real trend in the success of my friends, as far as who did and who did not do AEP. You "learn" as you go and aren't graded until December. AEP will teach you how to brief cases and such, but the generally orientation will do this as well (though in a more brief manner). TLS also has plenty of resources to guide you as you go.

As someone who did the AEP program and then TA'd/taught AEP last year, I agree with this. The biggest advantages I see to AEP are that it gives you a leg up for the first month or so - those of us who'd been at school for 2 weeks knew where things were, felt we had a built-in support system, stuff like that - and you have a core group of friends that are outside your section. (My mentor from AEP didn't help me during the school year but other mentors DEFINITELY did; I had ment-ees I never saw again and also picked up ment-ees that hadn't been assigned to me, during the year.) Several of my close friends at school are people I met in AEP that I probably wouldn't have known (or known well), otherwise. Feel free to PM me with other questions - or post them here and I'll try to stay on top of the thread. :)

mijenks
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mijenks » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:46 pm

I would like to do AEP but I'll still be working when it starts so . . . I am disappoint.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Thank yall....

On a different note, anyone going to the Summer ASD?

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:32 pm

JCFindley wrote:Thank yall....

On a different note, anyone going to the Summer ASD?

I went to one already.
Although, it is tempting to use it as an excuse to get out of work....

mijenks
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mijenks » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:05 pm

dingbat wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Thank yall....

On a different note, anyone going to the Summer ASD?

I went to one already.
Although, it is tempting to use it as an excuse to get out of work....

I'll be using it as an excuse to get out of work :)

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:30 pm

mijenks wrote:
dingbat wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Thank yall....

On a different note, anyone going to the Summer ASD?

I went to one already.
Although, it is tempting to use it as an excuse to get out of work....

I'll be using it as an excuse to get out of work :)


I will be there.....

expatHK
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby expatHK » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:47 pm

For those on the WL, any update(s)?

ajax
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ajax » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:18 pm

ned wrote:
DTDT wrote:The trading analogy is broken. You plan on legging into your law degree? That's dumb.

I'm planning on attending in the Fall and hopefully I can take some profits by 2L and hold a small short into year 3 vs my long Cornell 2L.

PS I am not a SD native but I've been to Coronado twice. I'm sorry for the future weather you will experience here in NYC.


I will approach my law school decision with a derivatives trading analogy. For my 1L, I'm going with a call on Dec 2012 and also May 2013. But I'm gonna offset that risk with some long-term puts for 2L and 3L, just in case the job market takes another dive. Meanwhile, I'll set up an iron condor over each summer and earn premium from Fordham's off-season volatility. Once I'm within a couple months of graduation, I'll go heavy into the May 2015 calls at 130 and 145. So if I wind up with biglaw, I'm set, but if I wind up somewhere else, I'm still covered.



Are you trying to impress, because you're an option trader? Most people with those jobs went to good schools... on athletic scholarship.

Try spouting some more about volatility though. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that selling options is shorting volatility. It also doesn't take a genius to realize that beginning law school fall 2012 is likely a terrible idea.

Cheers.

DTDT
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby DTDT » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:40 pm

beginning law school fall 2012 is likely a terrible idea.



It very well may be likely a terrible idea for you but without details it's hard to say.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JCFindley » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:58 pm

expatHK wrote:For those on the WL, any update(s)?


This was posted on Kathryn Espiritu's Twitter on Tuesday,

"Last batch of Admits for this week just went out..."




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