Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:08 pm

ned wrote:
1) MANY people get need-based aid. Merit aid is icing on the cake, but not the primary factor in choosing schools for the majority of students.

2) Fordham seems to have established over the decades a particular niche based on its Manhattan alumni network and job placement at biglaw. You see Fordham at all levels of the top 50 law firms, including recruiting, partners, associates, etc., well beyond what its USNR ranking would suggest.

3) If you just barely don't get in to NYU or Columbia, Fordham is the best option in the region in terms of ranking/prestige, job placement, and size. There are tons of people in this category. So they don't feel compelled to play lets make a deal.

1) actually, schools have been moving more and more funds away from need-based, towards merit-based.
This has to do with the importance of rankings. Merit aid basically buys numbers. Fordham would prefer to only give need-based, but they need to remain competitive (as relayed to me by dean XXX)

2)Fordham's biglaw placement in most years is about 20th, regardless of the fact that US News ranks them around 30th (give or take a few points each year)

3) ding/ding/ding. New York is a huge region and one of the largest law markets in the world. If you think of it differently, the metropolitan area is twice the size of Chicago.
Besides, not everyone is a rankings whore / constantly checks out TLS, and Fordham has a darn good reputation in the city

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:33 pm

dingbat wrote:
ned wrote:
1) MANY people get need-based aid. Merit aid is icing on the cake, but not the primary factor in choosing schools for the majority of students.

2) Fordham seems to have established over the decades a particular niche based on its Manhattan alumni network and job placement at biglaw. You see Fordham at all levels of the top 50 law firms, including recruiting, partners, associates, etc., well beyond what its USNR ranking would suggest.

3) If you just barely don't get in to NYU or Columbia, Fordham is the best option in the region in terms of ranking/prestige, job placement, and size. There are tons of people in this category. So they don't feel compelled to play lets make a deal.

1) actually, schools have been moving more and more funds away from need-based, towards merit-based.
This has to do with the importance of rankings. Merit aid basically buys numbers. Fordham would prefer to only give need-based, but they need to remain competitive (as relayed to me by dean XXX)

2)Fordham's biglaw placement in most years is about 20th, regardless of the fact that US News ranks them around 30th (give or take a few points each year)

3) ding/ding/ding. New York is a huge region and one of the largest law markets in the world. If you think of it differently, the metropolitan area is twice the size of Chicago.
Besides, not everyone is a rankings whore / constantly checks out TLS, and Fordham has a darn good reputation in the city


While we agree on points 2 and 3, and you have inside info on point 1 that indicates a trend away from my point number 1, it gets a little fuzzy. I wonder what the ratio of need-based to merit-based funding is. And from what I've read, I think merit grant amounts are actually deducted from one's potential need-based grant, should one qualify for both, so in those cases, merit aid is not a deciding factor. The needy meritorious would have gotten a grant one way or another, up to a certain maximum award. The only people swayed by merit aid, at least financially, are those who don't qualify for need-based grants, and therefor don't really need to base their decisions on finances. It's more like an affirmation from the school that they are really really wanted as students. That's what the grant signifies, except for grants above $20k/year. Those would go above and beyond any need-based grants and impact one's quality of life while a student. But Fordham doesn't really deal in those figures.

I didn't get a merit grant, and I'm dirt poor, so I have a vested interest in my analysis :D

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:46 pm

ned wrote:While we agree on points 2 and 3, and you have inside info on point 1 that indicates a trend away from my point number 1, it gets a little fuzzy. I wonder what the ratio of need-based to merit-based funding is. And from what I've read, I think merit grant amounts are actually deducted from one's potential need-based grant, should one qualify for both, so in those cases, merit aid is not a deciding factor. The needy meritorious would have gotten a grant one way or another, up to a certain maximum award. The only people swayed by merit aid, at least financially, are those who don't qualify for need-based grants, and therefor don't really need to base their decisions on finances. It's more like an affirmation from the school that they are really really wanted as students. That's what the grant signifies, except for grants above $20k/year. Those would go above and beyond any need-based grants and impact one's quality of life while a student. But Fordham doesn't really deal in those figures.

I didn't get a merit grant, and I'm dirt poor, so I have a vested interest in my analysis :D

HYS are 100% need based.
Fordham is 1/3rd merit.
Generally speaking, I'd say that within the T30, I think it ranges between 1/3rd need, 2/3rd merit, to 2/3rd need and 1/3rd merit
Outside of the T30 I think that proportionally more aid is merit and not need

Any merit aid is deducted from need-based aid.
For example, if you qualify for $25k need based aid, but you already receive $5k merit based, then you will only get $20k need based (for a total of $25k), which makes total sense.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "above $20,000" comment, but I do know that in the past, Fordham maxed out at $35k, but it appears this year their maximum is $30k. (with the exception of two full scholarships per year, which are a recent addition, and the Stein Scholarship for public interest, which appears independant of any need/merit aid, but is contingent upon other qualifications)

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ned
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby ned » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:14 pm

dingbat wrote:
ned wrote:While we agree on points 2 and 3, and you have inside info on point 1 that indicates a trend away from my point number 1, it gets a little fuzzy. I wonder what the ratio of need-based to merit-based funding is. And from what I've read, I think merit grant amounts are actually deducted from one's potential need-based grant, should one qualify for both, so in those cases, merit aid is not a deciding factor. The needy meritorious would have gotten a grant one way or another, up to a certain maximum award. The only people swayed by merit aid, at least financially, are those who don't qualify for need-based grants, and therefor don't really need to base their decisions on finances. It's more like an affirmation from the school that they are really really wanted as students. That's what the grant signifies, except for grants above $20k/year. Those would go above and beyond any need-based grants and impact one's quality of life while a student. But Fordham doesn't really deal in those figures.

I didn't get a merit grant, and I'm dirt poor, so I have a vested interest in my analysis :D

HYS are 100% need based.
Fordham is 1/3rd merit.
Generally speaking, I'd say that within the T30, I think it ranges between 1/3rd need, 2/3rd merit, to 2/3rd need and 1/3rd merit
Outside of the T30 I think that proportionally more aid is merit and not need

Any merit aid is deducted from need-based aid.
For example, if you qualify for $25k need based aid, but you already receive $5k merit based, then you will only get $20k need based (for a total of $25k), which makes total sense.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "above $20,000" comment, but I do know that in the past, Fordham maxed out at $35k, but it appears this year their maximum is $30k. (with the exception of two full scholarships per year, which are a recent addition, and the Stein Scholarship for public interest, which appears independant of any need/merit aid, but is contingent upon other qualifications)


Interesting. Where are you getting your Fordham breakdown from? The "above $20,000" comment was just referring to a cap on need-based grants. People who don't qualify for need-based grants are judged by Fordham to have enough resources through loans and other funding (i.e. parents, savings, outside scholarships) to pay for school. Someone who qualifies for the maximum need-based grant, something like $20k/yr, would only be swayed by merit grants substantially surpassing that amount, up to the maximum $30k merit scholarship. Not particularly relevant I suppose....

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:51 pm

ned wrote:
dingbat wrote:HYS are 100% need based.
Fordham is 1/3rd merit.
Generally speaking, I'd say that within the T30, I think it ranges between 1/3rd need, 2/3rd merit, to 2/3rd need and 1/3rd merit
Outside of the T30 I think that proportionally more aid is merit and not need

Any merit aid is deducted from need-based aid.
For example, if you qualify for $25k need based aid, but you already receive $5k merit based, then you will only get $20k need based (for a total of $25k), which makes total sense.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "above $20,000" comment, but I do know that in the past, Fordham maxed out at $35k, but it appears this year their maximum is $30k. (with the exception of two full scholarships per year, which are a recent addition, and the Stein Scholarship for public interest, which appears independant of any need/merit aid, but is contingent upon other qualifications)


Interesting. Where are you getting your Fordham breakdown from? The "above $20,000" comment was just referring to a cap on need-based grants. People who don't qualify for need-based grants are judged by Fordham to have enough resources through loans and other funding (i.e. parents, savings, outside scholarships) to pay for school. Someone who qualifies for the maximum need-based grant, something like $20k/yr, would only be swayed by merit grants substantially surpassing that amount, up to the maximum $30k merit scholarship. Not particularly relevant I suppose....

I don't recall where I got the 1/3rd number from, but I looked it up in reference to this same question a few months ago. I remember that (I think it was) W&L had the same ratio.

The $30k maximum I refer to did not specify merit or need. I know of a few people who got $30k merit. I did not know there was a lower cap on need based aid, although it does make sense.

confusedlaw
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby confusedlaw » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 am

deposited yesterday

mcdeeremitch
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mcdeeremitch » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:13 pm

Is today a good day to send my second LOCI or should I wait until next week after the deposit deadline

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:26 pm

john1990 wrote:I am concerned about OCI and equality among PT an FT students, although for now i am just on the WL



Since this hasn't been cleared up yet, there is no disparity between full time and part time students as far as opportunities are concerned at Fordham. Regarding OCI in particular, evening students participate after their second year summer just prior to the beginning of their third academic year. If you instead transfer to the full time program after completing your first year, then you will participate in OCI prior to beginning your second academic year along with everyone that was in the day division initially. The only times there will be a disparity between the full time program and part time program is attendance at optional events may be difficult since part time students generally have work during the day and class in the evening. That just goes with the territory I suppose.

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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:28 pm

mcdeeremitch wrote:Is today a good day to send my second LOCI or should I wait until next week after the deposit deadline


I would highly recommend waiting a week. This way the admissions office will have some sense of their yield and can then add your letter with an awareness of what they are still looking for. Sending it right now will not provide this, or any other benefit, that sending it next week would provide.

Best of luck!

mcdeeremitch
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mcdeeremitch » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:31 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:
mcdeeremitch wrote:Is today a good day to send my second LOCI or should I wait until next week after the deposit deadline


I would highly recommend waiting a week. This way the admissions office will have some sense of their yield and can then add your letter with an awareness of what they are still looking for. Sending it right now will not provide this, or any other benefit, that sending it next week would provide.

Best of luck!


Thank you..that helps a lot

leafs1315
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby leafs1315 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:53 pm

I posted on this forum a couple days ago saying that I was wait listed. I realized I never got my question answered. I sent in a letter of LOCI about 6 weeks ago and then I emailed them asking for status update a couple weeks ago. I just don't want them to forget my name.

I am going to visit Fordham this Friday and I was wondering if people usually met with the admissions office during their visit?

Thanks

mcdeeremitch
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mcdeeremitch » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:06 pm

leafs1315 wrote:I posted on this forum a couple days ago saying that I was wait listed. I realized I never got my question answered. I sent in a letter of LOCI about 6 weeks ago and then I emailed them asking for status update a couple weeks ago. I just don't want them to forget my name.

I am going to visit Fordham this Friday and I was wondering if people usually met with the admissions office during their visit?

Thanks


Ive heard that when a few people went the admissions office wasn't seeing anyone but if when you go there is someone there to talk to I say definately sit down with them..what better way for them to know you than to actually talk with you in person

leafs1315
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby leafs1315 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:15 pm

mcdeeremitch wrote:
leafs1315 wrote:I posted on this forum a couple days ago saying that I was wait listed. I realized I never got my question answered. I sent in a letter of LOCI about 6 weeks ago and then I emailed them asking for status update a couple weeks ago. I just don't want them to forget my name.

I am going to visit Fordham this Friday and I was wondering if people usually met with the admissions office during their visit?

Thanks


Ive heard that when a few people went the admissions office wasn't seeing anyone but if when you go there is someone there to talk to I say definately sit down with them..what better way for them to know you than to actually talk with you in person



Thanks, I'll definitely look into that. Hopefully I can stop by the office and just introduce myself.

what_the_what
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby what_the_what » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:54 pm

I was waitlisted a couple of weeks ago for PT (163/3.45). I am going to wait a week to send in my LOCI until after the deposit deadline, but my question is, would it be advantageous to visit Fordham? I live in the Midwest so it obviously isn't as convenient for me to visit, but I have the resources to. Would this give me a slight boost in chances or does the admissions office not care?

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:34 pm

leafs1315 wrote:
mcdeeremitch wrote:
leafs1315 wrote:I posted on this forum a couple days ago saying that I was wait listed. I realized I never got my question answered. I sent in a letter of LOCI about 6 weeks ago and then I emailed them asking for status update a couple weeks ago. I just don't want them to forget my name.

I am going to visit Fordham this Friday and I was wondering if people usually met with the admissions office during their visit?

Thanks


Ive heard that when a few people went the admissions office wasn't seeing anyone but if when you go there is someone there to talk to I say definately sit down with them..what better way for them to know you than to actually talk with you in person



Thanks, I'll definitely look into that. Hopefully I can stop by the office and just introduce myself.


You can, but I think it would look better to email them in advance and let them know you will be looking at the school and would love to speak with someone in admissions for a couple minutes if possible.

They also have a tour on Friday, and most other days, that you can register for online and having your name listed may (although who really knows) show some commitment.

leafs1315
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby leafs1315 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:37 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:
leafs1315 wrote:
mcdeeremitch wrote:
leafs1315 wrote:I posted on this forum a couple days ago saying that I was wait listed. I realized I never got my question answered. I sent in a letter of LOCI about 6 weeks ago and then I emailed them asking for status update a couple weeks ago. I just don't want them to forget my name.

I am going to visit Fordham this Friday and I was wondering if people usually met with the admissions office during their visit?

Thanks


Ive heard that when a few people went the admissions office wasn't seeing anyone but if when you go there is someone there to talk to I say definately sit down with them..what better way for them to know you than to actually talk with you in person



Thanks, I'll definitely look into that. Hopefully I can stop by the office and just introduce myself.


You can, but I think it would look better to email them in advance and let them know you will be looking at the school and would love to speak with someone in admissions for a couple minutes if possible.

They also have a tour on Friday, and most other days, that you can register for online and having your name listed may (although who really knows) show some commitment.


I signed up for the tour on Friday.

I might send them an email saying that I'll be coming up and would like to speak to someone in admissions about my current status.

Thanks for the response

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hadisious
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby hadisious » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:49 am

leafs1315 wrote:I signed up for the tour on Friday.

I might send them an email saying that I'll be coming up and would like to speak to someone in admissions about my current status.

Thanks for the response

FWIW, when I did the tour: Our guide brought us to admissions at the end to talk with them about our situation (whether it was waitlist or merit aid). It seemed like a pretty normal thing. Good luck!

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nicole88
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby nicole88 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:53 am

Hey all,

Current 1L to answer some of the q's on the board in the past week or so:

OCI will be the same for part-time and full-time. Fordham is fine with transferring from part-time to full-time, in fact A LOT of students do that. The three study abroad programs really encourage part time students who are switching to do their programs (because you have to take classes after your 1L summer to catch up anyway), so a lot of part time students study abroad their first summer and then become full time students.

Visiting is definitely a good idea and visiting the admissions office while you're there is a good idea too. I'm a tour guide at the law school and I always take the students over to the admissions office afterwards. The admissions staff is really friendly and it's definitely good for them to put a face to a name, they mingle A LOT at events so they can meet potential students. I would definitely stop by to ask a question or two after your tour.

EvelynS
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby EvelynS » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:44 pm

I am planning to withdraw my app this weekend, after Berkeley ASW. Hopefully, someone who really wants to attend Fordham Law will take my seat.

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Happy Endings
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Happy Endings » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:59 pm

Thank you Evelyn and good luck in the fall! I applied in Sept->Waitlisted in Dec. With the last Fordham ASW coming up, I hope that the last group truly appreciates the opportunity of being there and the great moments...I imagine that will come.

For those still waiting...hang in there and stay positive!!! I wish I could tour sooner...unfortunately I have obligations that prevent me from touring until May (which will probably be self-guided at that point...given Fordham's exam period :( )

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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby cocoabean250 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:38 am

So I sent in an LOCI a few weeks ago, since I'm on the waitlist. Should I send in another one right after the deposit deadline? Or try to get another recommendation? I visited the school last month, and unfortunately was unable to meet with anyone, and I won't get to visit again, so I'm just wondering if there's anything else I can do to show interest?

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nicole88
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby nicole88 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:54 am

Oh, I forgot to also add that Fordham is pretty generous with need-based aid, despite being known for being pretty stingy with merit-based aid. Just FYI.

AlexGrace
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby AlexGrace » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:15 am

I just sent my attempt at a merit negotiation email. I know it's pretty late, but I recently realized that I really don't want to leave NYC and was waitlisted at NYU last week. I tried to be as polite as possible, and I really hope I didn't come off as a jerk lol... We shall see!

Do you guys think I waited too long?

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:33 am

AlexGrace wrote:I just sent my attempt at a merit negotiation email. I know it's pretty late, but I recently realized that I really don't want to leave NYC and was waitlisted at NYU last week. I tried to be as polite as possible, and I really hope I didn't come off as a jerk lol... We shall see!

Do you guys think I waited too long?

You should have waited another week. Once the deposit deadline rolls in, they'll know if they have a shortage of high GPAs (which you could boost)

AlexGrace
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby AlexGrace » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:37 am

dingbat wrote:
AlexGrace wrote:I just sent my attempt at a merit negotiation email. I know it's pretty late, but I recently realized that I really don't want to leave NYC and was waitlisted at NYU last week. I tried to be as polite as possible, and I really hope I didn't come off as a jerk lol... We shall see!

Do you guys think I waited too long?

You should have waited another week. Once the deposit deadline rolls in, they'll know if they have a shortage of high GPAs (which you could boost)


I was under the impression that after the deadline passed and I did not put a deposit down, my appliciation was "closed" or something to that effect... Is this way off base?




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