Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

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2015JD
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby 2015JD » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

Albein0
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Albein0 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:37 pm

I have a slightly unrelated question so I hope this doesn't throw anyone off... but I'm thinking about living at the Wilshire Plaza apartments that Fordham runs, off-campus on 58th street. Does anyone here live there/know anything about it?

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:51 pm

2015JD wrote:Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?

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cogitoergosum
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby cogitoergosum » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:01 pm

dingbat wrote:Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA)

I don't think this is exactly privileged information unique to Fordham... Isn't that basically the definition of merit aid?
EDIT:
dingbat wrote:so they don't really care what you get anywhere else.

This does not follow from what precedes it... If they are buying a more statistically impressive entering class, which is what all schools are doing with merit aid, then they ought to care what offers other schools are making, or they will not get those statistically impressive applicants. In other words, buying higher scores kind of entails caring about other offers.
Last edited by cogitoergosum on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kwais
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby kwais » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:08 pm

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

2015JD
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby 2015JD » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:09 pm

dingbat wrote:
2015JD wrote:Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?


First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:42 pm

2015JD wrote:
dingbat wrote:
2015JD wrote:Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?


First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

So you're not a special snowflake?
Honestly though, a free ride to Cardozo vs sticker at Fordham is a no-brainer (unless you're biglaw or bust)
I'd also take a free ride at Fordham over sticker at Cornell.

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:44 pm

Well, hopefully you get some need based or merit aid from Fordham 2015JD. If you don't, it sounds like you have a great choice in Cardozo otherwise!
Last edited by JenDarby on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

2015JD
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby 2015JD » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:48 pm

dingbat wrote:
2015JD wrote:
dingbat wrote:
2015JD wrote:Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?


First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

So you're not a special snowflake?
Honestly though, a free ride to Cardozo vs sticker at Fordham is a no-brainer (unless you're biglaw or bust)
I'd also take a free ride at Fordham over sticker at Cornell.


No stipulations. The money is guaranteed as long as I do not fail out (under 2.0). I am not biglaw or bust, in fact I want to do Criminal Prosecution. Another hit against Fordham is there LRAP doesn't cover Government work only non-profit.

Again I would prefer Fordham, but no money makes it hard pill to swallow. Cardozo at all is a hard pill to swallow. Maybe I will get lucky and get a massive award from Fordham, but seeing how many other people get no money I am not holding my breath.

My URM is Puerto-Rican.

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:49 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:
dingbat wrote:Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA)

I don't think this is exactly privileged information unique to Fordham... Isn't that basically the definition of merit aid?
EDIT:
dingbat wrote:so they don't really care what you get anywhere else.

This does not follow from what precedes it... If they are buying a more statistically impressive entering class, which is what all schools are doing with merit aid, then they ought to care what offers other schools are making, or they will not get those statistically impressive applicants. In other words, buying higher scores kind of entails caring about other offers.

Not exactly. Its a matter of how the average apps stack up. They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.
Similar effect, different way of getting there
(There's also game theory involved, but I dont feel like writing several pages in this)

tennisking88
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby tennisking88 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:57 pm

dingbat wrote: They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.


I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

NJDevilsfan
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby NJDevilsfan » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:59 pm

Do I have any chance at a scholarship with a 3.78/165 or should I not even bother asking? I did get accepted pretty late in the game...

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby MrAnon » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:02 am

kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

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john1990
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby john1990 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:33 am

kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


I heard that it will be complete for the fall of 2014, so we should see it as 3L's :D

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john1990
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby john1990 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:41 am

MrAnon wrote:
kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.


Law school rankings are effected

"Average Instruction, Library, Supporting Services Expenses (9.75%)

This is the amount the school spent on its faculty and facilities for the previous year"

Also peer assessment could be effected. And, the building is large enough to support faculty offices and classes in the same building, the school is very divided right now. Also, nice things are nice

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:02 am

tennisking88 wrote:
dingbat wrote: They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.


I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

No, I do not think that is unreasonable. That is right in the middle of their 2011 numbers, do even though 2012 is a little weaker, it is not unreasonable for average numbers to pay sticker.
If you got 3.75 and 168, perhaps it would be reasonable to get a small scholly.
3.85 / 170 would be better.

What's with the sense if entitlement? You're not a special snowflake and if you go through life with this kind of expectations you'll be in for a rude awakening.
I've worked with a lot of ibankers over the past decade who thought they were hot snot. Guess where they are now?

legallyblonde817
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby legallyblonde817 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:16 am

dingbat wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
dingbat wrote: They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.


I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

No, I do not think that is unreasonable. That is right in the middle of their 2011 numbers, do even though 2012 is a little weaker, it is not unreasonable for average numbers to pay sticker.
If you got 3.75 and 168, perhaps it would be reasonable to get a small scholly.
3.85 / 170 would be better.

What's with the sense if entitlement? You're not a special snowflake and if you go through life with this kind of expectations you'll be in for a rude awakening.
I've worked with a lot of ibankers over the past decade who thought they were hot snot. Guess where they are now?

To give you an idea... if you have above the 75% range, you will likely get one of the larger scholly offers... both of mine were at or above and I got a NICE offer
but if you are a splitter... fugghetaboutit

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cogitoergosum
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby cogitoergosum » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:49 am

I understand what you're saying dingbat, and I don't disagree.

I think for a lot of us it's just a venting thing... it is frustrating to get no-offered at a school you are really interested in when higher ranked schools are making you serious scholarship offers, and when you have the option of attending t-14 schools. Of course, Fordham is going to make its decisions and we'll have to make ours.

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby dingbat » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:23 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:I understand what you're saying dingbat, and I don't disagree.

I think for a lot of us it's just a venting thing... it is frustrating to get no-offered at a school you are really interested in when higher ranked schools are making you serious scholarship offers, and when you have the option of attending t-14 schools. Of course, Fordham is going to make its decisions and we'll have to make ours.

I understand - I wish I could get a better offer, but c'est la vie
I also get frustrated with people who have a sense of entitlement or think they're god's gift, which is probably due to my background/experience.
I wish you could get a better offer too as you are definitely one of the more personable and likable persons on this board

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Gemini
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby Gemini » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:49 pm

john1990 wrote:
kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


I heard that it will be complete for the fall of 2014, so we should see it as 3L's :D


:twisted: :twisted: I'm so mad about that.

mcdeeremitch
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby mcdeeremitch » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:59 pm

In the process of crafting my second loci which Ill probaby send monday...looking to visit about a week before 4/16

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kwais
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby kwais » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:20 am

MrAnon wrote:
kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.


man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun

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SDPalmTree
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby SDPalmTree » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:08 pm

kwais wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.


man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun


Personally, I think it fits really well with the only really outstanding part of Fordham - its location. Other schools I've been accepted into have been emphasizing how great their externships, teaching methods, etc. are; but looking at the Fordham promotional materials, the only thing that really stands out are the pictures of NYC they place on every other page.

So at least they're playing to their strengths...

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby MrAnon » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:31 pm

SDPalmTree wrote:
kwais wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
kwais wrote:I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.


Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.


man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun


Personally, I think it fits really well with the only really outstanding part of Fordham - its location. Other schools I've been accepted into have been emphasizing how great their externships, teaching methods, etc. are; but looking at the Fordham promotional materials, the only thing that really stands out are the pictures of NYC they place on every other page.

So at least they're playing to their strengths...


NYLS does that too. The question is, once you take away pictures of NYC, does it really offer better opportunities than its peer schools? Or does NYC just = more expensive?

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JenDarby
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Re: Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle)

Postby JenDarby » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:40 pm

SDPalmTree, what are the schools you're considering (have been accepted to) with the great externships and teaching methods? No need to be coy, your comment is just a valueless rant without specifics. Promotional materials aren't exactly where I'd base my LS decision off of, regardless of whether they emphasize area or their superb teaching methods.

I'm glad Mr. Anon posts here though. Not everyone from any given LS ends up being successful, and it IS nice to see the other side. LS and Fordham do involve taking on a high level of debt generally, and you could become a bitter TLS poster when it's all said and done.




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