UIUC 2015

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:50 pm

Cornelius wrote:And if they weren't just concerned about the LSAT median, they wouldn't be accepting 3.00 GPAs in the first place

LOL. There are 2 medians. Do you understand how medians work?
[/quote]

Yeah. I know how medians work.

I don't see what is "lol"

Ridiculing me doesn't make any sense from the argument that you're making. From what you're saying, there's only one reason on Earth to accept a low GPA. There's a high LSAT to compensate. 166 is a good LSAT, but it isn't a great LSAT. 169 >>> 166. Agreed?

3.03 is not much different from a 2.94. They are both low. The only difference is that one is a really high splitter and the other is a mediocre splitter.


Besides, it's definitely not a GPA floor. 170/2.84 was also accepted. There goes that.


To be fair. My position isn't very coherent either. What am I really arguing? It is either that Illinois doesn't know what the hell it is doing (probably true) or that softs matter a lot to UIUC (probably true).


This meant a lot more to me before Friday.



And about the PS. That is also another ridiculously stupid measure of an applicant. It's not a measure of writing mechanics. A really easy thing to fake anyways. I could easily take it to someone to help me craft my writing until it looked like Walt Whitman was applying to come to Urbana.

It's a personal bragging essay at best (man that's a shitty best) and a "caught you with a grammar error, back to the line for you!" at worst. Either way, softs are stupid. They aren't relevant. They come from a flawed assumption about selection methodology. Basically that personality is a good measure of potential.

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surfer
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:48 am

STLMizzou wrote:Legal writing and writing in the real world are so completely different I am not sure if I agree. I am an English major/creative writing emphasis, so I would like to believe that writing ability is important, but idk if it translates into legal writing skill.


I don't think legal writing is very different from any other form of writing. Each style of writing simply uses a different vocabulary.

Gail wrote:And about the PS. That is also another ridiculously stupid measure of an applicant. It's not a measure of writing mechanics. A really easy thing to fake anyways. I could easily take it to someone to help me craft my writing until it looked like Walt Whitman was applying to come to Urbana.


That's a bit extreme Gail. Clearly adcoms don't care if you can write like a poet or a novelist. What they do care about is whether or not you can put together a compelling and coherent piece of writing. Also, the fact that something can theoretically be faked does not mean it is of no value.

I doubt that many people pay others to write their essays, and those who do likely have serious deficiencies aside from a lack of writing talent. Besides, there is always the LSAT writing sample!
Last edited by surfer on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:55 am

surfer wrote:
STLMizzou wrote:Legal writing and writing in the real world are so completely different I am not sure if I agree. I am an English major/creative writing emphasis, so I would like to believe that writing ability is important, but idk if it translates into legal writing skill.


I don't think legal writing is very different from any other form of writing. Each style of writing simply uses a different vocabulary.

Gail wrote:And about the PS. That is also another ridiculously stupid measure of an applicant. It's not a measure of writing mechanics. A really easy thing to fake anyways. I could easily take it to someone to help me craft my writing until it looked like Walt Whitman was applying to come to Urbana.


That's a bit extreme Gail. Clearly adcoms don't care if you can write like a poet or a novelist. What they do care about is whether or not you can put together a compelling and coherent piece of writing. Also, the fact that something can theoretically be faked does not mean it is of no value.

I doubt that many people pay others to write their essays, and those who do likely have serious deficiencies aside from a lack of writing talent. Besides, there is always the LSAT writing sample!


I've often thought that this is the real reason for this sample. This person got Ds in English Composition, but their PS is flawless? Let's look at the writing sample! Good luck faking that one.

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:11 pm

Opie wrote:
I've often thought that this is the real reason for this sample. This person got Ds in English Composition, but their PS is flawless? Let's look at the writing sample! Good luck faking that one.


You an actually get a D in English? :shock:

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:53 pm

Gail wrote:
Opie wrote:
I've often thought that this is the real reason for this sample. This person got Ds in English Composition, but their PS is flawless? Let's look at the writing sample! Good luck faking that one.


You an actually get a D in English? :shock:


Well, I don't know anyone who did, but I bet if you just didn't turn in a paper you could.

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:20 pm

The C on my keyboard is stiking :evil:

DportIA
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby DportIA » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:33 pm

I had the opportunity to visit Illinois on Thursday.

I had never been to Urbana Champaign campus, so I it was fun to walk around it. I found it gorgeous and a drastic change in arch. from UT-Austin, my undergrad. At the law school itself, I thought the building was very functional and there seemed to be a high level of congeniality and goodwill among students.

We sat in on Civil Procedure with Kordick, and I found her a very engaging professor and the class was very interesting. Nothing but good remarks for her and her class. After the class, I sat down with Jenny Carroll, the interim Dean.

I informed her I was thrilled with UofI, but that I expected to receive a scholarship that would make it probably less expensive to go to Iowa. She told me they don't want to lose students over money, and to contact them once I heard scholarship info from Iowa and they would talk. Well, not 18 hours later on my visit to Iowa they surprised me verbally with a full tuition offer.

My next step is to contact UofI with this information and see if they will match/exceed, etc. I could definitely see myself at Illinois, happily.

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm

DportIA wrote:I had the opportunity to visit Illinois on Thursday.

I had never been to Urbana Champaign campus, so I it was fun to walk around it. I found it gorgeous and a drastic change in arch. from UT-Austin, my undergrad. At the law school itself, I thought the building was very functional and there seemed to be a high level of congeniality and goodwill among students.

We sat in on Civil Procedure with Kordick, and I found her a very engaging professor and the class was very interesting. Nothing but good remarks for her and her class. After the class, I sat down with Jenny Carroll, the interim Dean.

I informed her I was thrilled with UofI, but that I expected to receive a scholarship that would make it probably less expensive to go to Iowa. She told me they don't want to lose students over money, and to contact them once I heard scholarship info from Iowa and they would talk. Well, not 18 hours later on my visit to Iowa they surprised me verbally with a full tuition offer.

My next step is to contact UofI with this information and see if they will match/exceed, etc. I could definitely see myself at Illinois, happily.

This is great intel. Looks like they are very open to negotiation.

northside
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby northside » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:55 pm

DportIA wrote:I had the opportunity to visit Illinois on Thursday.

I had never been to Urbana Champaign campus, so I it was fun to walk around it. I found it gorgeous and a drastic change in arch. from UT-Austin, my undergrad. At the law school itself, I thought the building was very functional and there seemed to be a high level of congeniality and goodwill among students.

We sat in on Civil Procedure with Kordick, and I found her a very engaging professor and the class was very interesting. Nothing but good remarks for her and her class. After the class, I sat down with Jenny Carroll, the interim Dean.

I informed her I was thrilled with UofI, but that I expected to receive a scholarship that would make it probably less expensive to go to Iowa. She told me they don't want to lose students over money, and to contact them once I heard scholarship info from Iowa and they would talk. Well, not 18 hours later on my visit to Iowa they surprised me verbally with a full tuition offer.

My next step is to contact UofI with this information and see if they will match/exceed, etc. I could definitely see myself at Illinois, happily.


Oh! Im in the same position except with Indiana. Thanks for the insight!

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Cornelius
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Cornelius » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:10 am

Gail wrote:Yeah. I know how medians work.

Doesn't seem like it.

From what you're saying, there's only one reason on Earth to accept a low GPA.

That's actually what you're saying, not me.

166 is a good LSAT, but it isn't a great LSAT. 169 >>> 166. Agreed?

Yes, 169 is a larger number than 166. However, both are above the UIUC median, meaning both have the same effect on the median unless the median somehow raises to 167. Further, the person with the 169 may be less likely to matriculate because of their superior score and possible acceptances elsewhere. They could have C&F issues. They could have written IU-B in their personal statement instead of UIUC.

Besides, people with numbers usually good enough for an acceptance get waitlisted or rejected all the time for a variety of reasons. This is true of every school, not just UIUC. Welcome to how law school admissions work.

3.03 is not much different from a 2.94. They are both low. The only difference is that one is a really high splitter and the other is a mediocre splitter.

You need to keep things in context. "Really high splitter" and "mediocre splitter" are meaningless terms. Both exceed the school's median LSAT, both are below the school's 25% GPA. Yes, the 169 is above the 75th LSAT and the 166 is below it. That's where other things come into play, like the sub 3.0 GPA, or potentially softs, C&F issues, or a terrible PS.

Besides, it's definitely not a GPA floor. 170/2.84 was also accepted. There goes that.

Don't see that on LSN. Besides, the floors can be "soft" or "hard". Without seeing each person's complete application, you're really not in a position to say whether it makes sense or not.

It is either that Illinois doesn't know what the hell it is doing (probably true) or that softs matter a lot to UIUC (probably true).

:roll: to both.

Either way, softs are stupid. They aren't relevant. They come from a flawed assumption about selection methodology. Basically that personality is a good measure of potential.

Indeed, previous work experience is meaningless. So is considerable involvement in public interest type stuff if that's what you're looking to get out of law school. Connections don't matter. I hope you can detect the obvious sarcasm here.

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:26 pm

Cornelius wrote:
Gail wrote:Yeah. I know how medians work.

Doesn't seem like it.

From what you're saying, there's only one reason on Earth to accept a low GPA.

That's actually what you're saying, not me.

166 is a good LSAT, but it isn't a great LSAT. 169 >>> 166. Agreed?

Yes, 169 is a larger number than 166. However, both are above the UIUC median, meaning both have the same effect on the median unless the median somehow raises to 167. Further, the person with the 169 may be less likely to matriculate because of their superior score and possible acceptances elsewhere. They could have C&F issues. They could have written IU-B in their personal statement instead of UIUC.

Besides, people with numbers usually good enough for an acceptance get waitlisted or rejected all the time for a variety of reasons. This is true of every school, not just UIUC. Welcome to how law school admissions work.

3.03 is not much different from a 2.94. They are both low. The only difference is that one is a really high splitter and the other is a mediocre splitter.

You need to keep things in context. "Really high splitter" and "mediocre splitter" are meaningless terms. Both exceed the school's median LSAT, both are below the school's 25% GPA. Yes, the 169 is above the 75th LSAT and the 166 is below it. That's where other things come into play, like the sub 3.0 GPA, or potentially softs, C&F issues, or a terrible PS.

Besides, it's definitely not a GPA floor. 170/2.84 was also accepted. There goes that.

Don't see that on LSN. Besides, the floors can be "soft" or "hard". Without seeing each person's complete application, you're really not in a position to say whether it makes sense or not.

It is either that Illinois doesn't know what the hell it is doing (probably true) or that softs matter a lot to UIUC (probably true).

:roll: to both.

Either way, softs are stupid. They aren't relevant. They come from a flawed assumption about selection methodology. Basically that personality is a good measure of potential.

Indeed, previous work experience is meaningless. So is considerable involvement in public interest type stuff if that's what you're looking to get out of law school. Connections don't matter. I hope you can detect the obvious sarcasm here.


I love this post. A lot.

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:35 pm

Cornelius wrote:Yes, 169 is a larger number than 166. However, both are above the UIUC median, meaning both have the same effect on the median unless the median somehow raises to 167. Further, the person with the 169 may be less likely to matriculate because of their superior score and possible acceptances elsewhere. They could have C&F issues. They could have written IU-B in their personal statement instead of UIUC.

Besides, people with numbers usually good enough for an acceptance get waitlisted or rejected all the time for a variety of reasons. This is true of every school, not just UIUC. Welcome to how law school admissions work.


Seems that if UIUC wanted to raise their GPA back to about where it was, they'd have admitted the 169.

Cornelius wrote:Don't see that on LSN. Besides, the floors can be "soft" or "hard". Without seeing each person's complete application, you're really not in a position to say whether it makes sense or not.


It was actually 176/2.8

Cornelius wrote:Indeed, previous work experience is meaningless. So is considerable involvement in public interest type stuff if that's what you're looking to get out of law school. Connections don't matter. I hope you can detect the obvious sarcasm here.


In terms of predicting potential. Yeah, they're close to pretty much meaningless. I didn't say that it wouldn't help you get into law school, I said that it isn't much a measure of your potential to succeed.

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Cornelius
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Cornelius » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:51 pm

Gail wrote:Seems that if UIUC wanted to raise their GPA back to about where it was, they'd have admitted the 169.

I assume you mean LSAT. I see no need to repeat the long list of reasons why I've given (in addition to the countless ones I haven't) why that person may not have been accepted.

It was actually 176/2.8

That was crumpets, who had a meaningful GPA addendum regarding caring for extremely ill family members. Additionally, a high LSAT can help overcome a low GPA more than the "numbers game" aspect would suggest, especially when coupled with a convincing explanation.

Like I said, without viewing the whole application, you have NO idea what you're talking about.

In terms of predicting potential. Yeah, they're close to pretty much meaningless. I didn't say that it wouldn't help you get into law school, I said that it isn't much a measure of your potential to succeed.

Proven success and a network/connections are meaningless and don't help you succeed? News to me. You should make a post in the employment forum so everyone can hear your sage advice.

tl,dr: in this thread poster has sour grapes about underperforming her numbers.

Please stop posting on this subject.

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:59 pm

Cornelius wrote:Proven success and a network/connections are meaningless and don't help you succeed? News to me. You should make a post in the employment forum so everyone can hear your sage advice.

tl,dr: in this thread poster has sour grapes about underperforming her numbers.

Please stop posting on this subject.


Pretty much.

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Cornelius
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Cornelius » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Gail wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Proven success and a network/connections are meaningless and don't help you succeed? News to me. You should make a post in the employment forum so everyone can hear your sage advice.

tl,dr: in this thread poster has sour grapes about underperforming her numbers.

Please stop posting on this subject.


Pretty much.

If that's the case, I'm sure people here would have been happy to help you with your personal statement/resume/whatever or offer advice on retaking.

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Gail
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Gail » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:22 pm

Cornelius wrote:
Gail wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Proven success and a network/connections are meaningless and don't help you succeed? News to me. You should make a post in the employment forum so everyone can hear your sage advice.

tl,dr: in this thread poster has sour grapes about underperforming her numbers.

Please stop posting on this subject.


Pretty much.

If that's the case, I'm sure people here would have been happy to help you with your personal statement/resume/whatever or offer advice on retaking.


I have a really nice offer from another school in the top 40. It would leave me with very little debt and more exit options. I'm not sure why they accepted me with $$$ and Illinois essentially WL'd me. I'm really confused by this entire cycle, but I think that this offer is probably the best I'll get anywhere. I'll be leaving home, but honestly, every winter I tell myself I need to leave anyways (anemia makes the cold difficult for me).


I don't know why I was arguing this. Probably because everyone in my office is out at conference and so I'm really bored.

btw384
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby btw384 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:40 pm

Not to change the topic (as I'm sure everyone else is as enthralled with this debate as I am :wink: ), but I received my acceptance letter via snail mail today. Hopefully I can make it to campus for ASW or a tour. Illinois sounds great, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding the scandal/campus/etc.

lawgeekgrl
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby lawgeekgrl » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:03 pm

btw384 wrote:Not to change the topic (as I'm sure everyone else is as enthralled with this debate as I am :wink: ), but I received my acceptance letter via snail mail today. Hopefully I can make it to campus for ASW or a tour. Illinois sounds great, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding the scandal/campus/etc.


So you didn't get any emails or notification through status check- just mail?

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:08 pm

lawgeekgrl wrote:
btw384 wrote:Not to change the topic (as I'm sure everyone else is as enthralled with this debate as I am :wink: ), but I received my acceptance letter via snail mail today. Hopefully I can make it to campus for ASW or a tour. Illinois sounds great, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding the scandal/campus/etc.


So you didn't get any emails or notification through status check- just mail?


Yeah, that's weird. I got an email from Jenny directly. A really informal one that was kinda awkward.

btw384
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby btw384 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:13 pm

Opie wrote:
lawgeekgrl wrote:
btw384 wrote:Not to change the topic (as I'm sure everyone else is as enthralled with this debate as I am :wink: ), but I received my acceptance letter via snail mail today. Hopefully I can make it to campus for ASW or a tour. Illinois sounds great, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding the scandal/campus/etc.


So you didn't get any emails or notification through status check- just mail?


Yeah, that's weird. I got an email from Jenny directly. A really informal one that was kinda awkward.

No no no, I already knew I was accepted-- got the awkward, hastily written email. I was just noting that I received my letter in the mail today as well. My bad.

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Ludo!
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Ludo! » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:17 pm

Haha, what are these awkward acceptance emails they're sending out?

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:18 pm

btw384 wrote:
Opie wrote:
lawgeekgrl wrote:
btw384 wrote:Not to change the topic (as I'm sure everyone else is as enthralled with this debate as I am :wink: ), but I received my acceptance letter via snail mail today. Hopefully I can make it to campus for ASW or a tour. Illinois sounds great, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding the scandal/campus/etc.


So you didn't get any emails or notification through status check- just mail?


Yeah, that's weird. I got an email from Jenny directly. A really informal one that was kinda awkward.

No no no, I already knew I was accepted-- got the awkward, hastily written email. I was just noting that I received my letter in the mail today as well. My bad.


I love how much crap we give this email. I bet people that haven't got one are thinking it says something to the affect of "Dear Opie, I guess we're accepting you. Send us a seat deposit... Is that how it works? Anyway, come to Illinois! Love, Jenny."

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:20 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:Haha, what are these awkward acceptance emails they're sending out?


Here's a snippet:

Dear Opie,
Congratulations! You have been admitted to the University of Illinois College of Law Class of 2015. Please excuse the informality of being notified via email, but I wanted to make sure that you knew as soon as possible. You should be very proud of your accomplishments to date, and I hope that you will continue your pursuit of excellence here at the Illinois next fall.
You will be receiving a formal letter of admission in the coming days, which will include information about deposits, transcripts and a few other requirements. It will also include details about our scholarship offer. We are able to offer you a twenty-five percent (25%) tuition scholarship, which according to our tentative 2012-13 tuition equates to $11,130 per year.


Then it goes into open houses and the usual admitted students stuff.

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Ludo!
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Ludo! » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Ha that's the exact same letter I got two years ago.

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Opie
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Re: UIUC 2015

Postby Opie » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:01 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:Ha that's the exact same letter I got two years ago.


Really? Nice. Apparently Pless's email templates aren't too good for them.




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