Case Western 2015 Forum

[snowpeach06]

Can anyone at or graduated from Case Western Law tell me a bit more about what the people at the school are like and what kind of environment they create? I'm looking for information that might give me a sense of what it would actually be like to be at Case Western. Students: are students very social/friendly, do they try to support one another, what kinds of attitudes and interests tend to prevail? Professors: are they accessible, have they given you good ideas and and helped you make connections regarding your career, are they engaging? And what about the staff, like people in career services - have students found these people helpful? I ask these questions because I would like to have a law school experience that I feel more connected to and stimulated by than I did attending my big public UG school. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

In my opinion:

1. Other students - it's law school - there will be the cocky and/or socially awkward people. But, I find most people to be lovely, friendly and supportive. My friends are always willing to help me in a bind - both in and out of school. I cant' say that i have the same interests as a lot of my friends in law school, but, it honestly doesn't matter, I love hanging out with them anyway.
2. Professors - again, good and bad. Most professors are accessible though. If you e-mail them, you'll get a response within a day or so. They can't always help get you a job, but, I actually did get my job through a professor, so, sometimes they can. I'd say most of the teachers are very good, with only a few bad apples.
3. Staff - they are kind of a joke. Literally. We have a joke about almost every member of staff. If you come here you will soon start to understand "*Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply *" and RuffEgg.

[2LsAPlenty]

Ended up getting offered a spot (deferred) with a big scholarship (CoA $14/yr). Well above both medians. Horrible experience with them. Heading to Pitt with their biggest scholarship and no debt.

Good luck to people at Case, hopefully you'll like it. The Prof's I've met are great people. Case's reputation outside NE Ohio isn't great. I know a good number of people who went outside the region, and no one heard of Case. Having a Case degree outside Oh can be tough, and Cleveland Marshall is almost as strong as Case in Cleveland. So, just be careful, because CM is usually cheaper. Talking to Case Prof's, they think the school is in decline somewhat, and personally, it's not worth too much debt. If you're an OH resident, OSU and Cincy are cheaper options, and CM.

Agree that outside of Ohio and New York, most people would not recognize Case. If you are going to practice in those areas, it is a good choice, if not, maybe not so good.

[Jsa725]

.

[jallendaws]

1. Other students - it's law school - there will be the cocky and/or socially awkward people. But, I find most people to be lovely, friendly and supportive. My friends are always willing to help me in a bind - both in and out of school. I cant' say that i have the same interests as a lot of my friends in law school, but, it honestly doesn't matter, I love hanging out with them anyway.
2. Professors - again, good and bad. Most professors are accessible though. If you e-mail them, you'll get a response within a day or so. They can't always help get you a job, but, I actually did get my job through a professor, so, sometimes they can. I'd say most of the teachers are very good, with only a few bad apples.
3. Staff - they are kind of a joke. Literally. We have a joke about almost every member of staff. If you come here you will soon start to understand "*Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply *" and RuffEgg.

Thanks for the response, sounds pretty positive. I'm trying to decide between Case and two other similarly ranked Midwest schools. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to distinguish them from one another, so I'll do some more online research but mostly make my decision based on how my visits go in mid-late May. But I'm happy to say that Case is currently leading the way!

[jallendaws]

Agree that outside of Ohio and New York, most people would not recognize Case. If you are going to practice in those areas, it is a good choice, if not, maybe not so good.

Would a degree from Case draw much attention from nearby states? I'm especially wondering about Michigan, my home state.

[snowpeach06]

1. Other students - it's law school - there will be the cocky and/or socially awkward people. But, I find most people to be lovely, friendly and supportive. My friends are always willing to help me in a bind - both in and out of school. I cant' say that i have the same interests as a lot of my friends in law school, but, it honestly doesn't matter, I love hanging out with them anyway.
2. Professors - again, good and bad. Most professors are accessible though. If you e-mail them, you'll get a response within a day or so. They can't always help get you a job, but, I actually did get my job through a professor, so, sometimes they can. I'd say most of the teachers are very good, with only a few bad apples.
3. Staff - they are kind of a joke. Literally. We have a joke about almost every member of staff. If you come here you will soon start to understand "*Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply *" and RuffEgg.

Thanks for the response, sounds pretty positive. I'm trying to decide between Case and two other similarly ranked Midwest schools. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to distinguish them from one another, so I'll do some more online research but mostly make my decision based on how my visits go in mid-late May. But I'm happy to say that Case is currently leading the way!

That's great. And I'd be happy to answer any other questions.

[dstr15]

1. Other students - it's law school - there will be the cocky and/or socially awkward people. But, I find most people to be lovely, friendly and supportive. My friends are always willing to help me in a bind - both in and out of school. I cant' say that i have the same interests as a lot of my friends in law school, but, it honestly doesn't matter, I love hanging out with them anyway.
2. Professors - again, good and bad. Most professors are accessible though. If you e-mail them, you'll get a response within a day or so. They can't always help get you a job, but, I actually did get my job through a professor, so, sometimes they can. I'd say most of the teachers are very good, with only a few bad apples.
3. Staff - they are kind of a joke. Literally. We have a joke about almost every member of staff. If you come here you will soon start to understand "*Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply *" and RuffEgg.

Thanks for the response, sounds pretty positive. I'm trying to decide between Case and two other similarly ranked Midwest schools. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to distinguish them from one another, so I'll do some more online research but mostly make my decision based on how my visits go in mid-late May. But I'm happy to say that Case is currently leading the way!

Just in case you haven't seen this. http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/Home.aspx.

its worth a read, but most likely all these schools place similarly. Feel free to pm me with any questions (current 1L) but its finals time here so my answers will most likely be sporadic.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Agree that outside of Ohio and New York, most people would not recognize Case. If you are going to practice in those areas, it is a good choice, if not, maybe not so good.

Would a degree from Case draw much attention from nearby states? I'm especially wondering about Michigan, my home state.

T2 schools have home markets and then one or two secondary markets if they're fortunate. Case is 50% Ohio, 50% not, although in a bad market I'm willing to bet it's more like 60/40. As you can see from the ABA summary (linked in previous post), Ohio is a little more than half of the employed grads, and then New York and DC. I don't know about Michigan, I'd guess there are some - a quick Martindale search shows just over a hundred. I'd guess with Michigan, you'd be competing mainly with MSU and Wayne State, not so much with the other schools since UMich grads tend to go out of state and the others are just too low ranked. But I wonder if anyone in Michigan will really care that your school is ranked ~20 spots higher - your ties to the state and overall academic performance are surely more important.

I'd guess if you hustle and make contacts early, Case could be advantangeous to you, but I'm not sure I'd pay a big premium for it over MSU if your ultimate goal is to end up in Michigan. Costs being roughly equal, I'd take Case; the overall outcome seems better, but you'll have to work on the location. But Ohio isn't that bad, if it comes to that.

[goldenflash19]

Just withdrew. This one hurt. Best of luck to everyone ITT

[2LsAPlenty]

1. Other students - it's law school - there will be the cocky and/or socially awkward people. But, I find most people to be lovely, friendly and supportive. My friends are always willing to help me in a bind - both in and out of school. I cant' say that i have the same interests as a lot of my friends in law school, but, it honestly doesn't matter, I love hanging out with them anyway.
2. Professors - again, good and bad. Most professors are accessible though. If you e-mail them, you'll get a response within a day or so. They can't always help get you a job, but, I actually did get my job through a professor, so, sometimes they can. I'd say most of the teachers are very good, with only a few bad apples.
3. Staff - they are kind of a joke. Literally. We have a joke about almost every member of staff. If you come here you will soon start to understand "*Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply **Do Not Reply *" and RuffEgg.

Thanks for the response, sounds pretty positive. I'm trying to decide between Case and two other similarly ranked Midwest schools. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to distinguish them from one another, so I'll do some more online research but mostly make my decision based on how my visits go in mid-late May. But I'm happy to say that Case is currently leading the way!

Just in case you haven't seen this. http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/Home.aspx.

its worth a read, but most likely all these schools place similarly. Feel free to pm me with any questions (current 1L) but its finals time here so my answers will most likely be sporadic.

Interesting read indeed. Confirms how few Big Law positions get filled from the law schools and that a great many do not end up in private practice. Also appears Case is pretty localized as discussed above.

[jallendaws]

Thanks a lot guys for the information. For some reason, Michigan State's deferred me (though I've only found out about it by snail mail showing up at my parent's house, nothing in my email..) and I ended up withdrawing from Wayne because their seat deposit was due when I'd already been accepted to a school ranked twice as high (keep in mind that this was when I thought T2-T4 rankings mattered much more) and hadn't heard back from most schools. I'm not by any means hard set on working in Michigan but think it would be nice for it to be a possibility. I've got family and friends in Michigan but not really any business ties, discounting lawyers that are colleagues/friends through family.

No more questions for now, maybe later. Good luck with exams, those that are in the thick of it! (get off the forums!)

[snowpeach06]

Thanks a lot guys for the information. For some reason, Michigan State's deferred me (though I've only found out about it by snail mail showing up at my parent's house, nothing in my email..) and I ended up withdrawing from Wayne because their seat deposit was due when I'd already been accepted to a school ranked twice as high (keep in mind that this was when I thought T2-T4 rankings mattered much more) and hadn't heard back from most schools. I'm not by any means hard set on working in Michigan but think it would be nice for it to be a possibility. I've got family and friends in Michigan but not really any business ties, discounting lawyers that are colleagues/friends through family.

No more questions for now, maybe later. Good luck with exams, those that are in the thick of it! (get off the forums!)

There is not much of a difference between schools in each tier, but there is a huge difference between t2 and t4 schools. You quite literally have no shot of making it out of the city of a t4 school - with a t2 you do have a shot. I have a friend in the top 2-3% at a t4 and can barely land jobs at small firms in her locality (not for interviewing purposes, but because they give them to other schools first).

[JVanHo]

I withdrew from Case after getting into Ohio State. Opens up a seat and $30k/yr, hope one of you get it!

[2LsAPlenty]

[/quote]There is not much of a difference between schools in each tier, but there is a huge difference between t2 and t4 schools. You quite literally have no shot of making it out of the city of a t4 school - with a t2 you do have a shot. I have a friend in the top 2-3% at a t4 and can barely land jobs at small firms in her locality (not for interviewing purposes, but because they give them to other schools first).[/quote]


If you look at the Case information at http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/Home.aspx. it certainly provides some food for thought. Not many make it into Big Law and those six figure salaries. Likely the same at most schools except the very top. Also shows Case is fairly localized.

[goldenflash19]

Does anyone know if Case typically sends a response email for withdrawn applicants? I tried to make theirs especially polite. All the other schools from which I withdrew yesterday sent one pretty quickly, and I saw on my Case status checker that they officially withdrew me yesterday. Almost leaves me with the impression I burned a bridge...

[snowpeach06]

There is not much of a difference between schools in each tier, but there is a huge difference between t2 and t4 schools. You quite literally have no shot of making it out of the city of a t4 school - with a t2 you do have a shot. I have a friend in the top 2-3% at a t4 and can barely land jobs at small firms in her locality (not for interviewing purposes, but because they give them to other schools first).[/quote]


If you look at the Case information at http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/Home.aspx. it certainly provides some food for thought. Not many make it into Big Law and those six figure salaries. Likely the same at most schools except the very top. Also shows Case is fairly localized.[/quote]
The difference is t4 students can barely get jobs locally. It's pretty easy for a t2 student.

[JVanHo]

Does anyone know if Case typically sends a response email for withdrawn applicants? I tried to make theirs especially polite. All the other schools from which I withdrew yesterday sent one pretty quickly, and I saw on my Case status checker that they officially withdrew me yesterday. Almost leaves me with the impression I burned a bridge...

I had the same experience. A few of the schools I withdrew from asked "Why?" but some never replied with anything and just updated my status, which was the case with CWRU. Just curious, what bridges could you have possibly burned? I think you're probably over-thinking it lol

[goldenflash19]

Does anyone know if Case typically sends a response email for withdrawn applicants? I tried to make theirs especially polite. All the other schools from which I withdrew yesterday sent one pretty quickly, and I saw on my Case status checker that they officially withdrew me yesterday. Almost leaves me with the impression I burned a bridge...

I had the same experience. A few of the schools I withdrew from asked "Why?" but some never replied with anything and just updated my status, which was the case with CWRU. Just curious, what bridges could you have possibly burned? I think you're probably over-thinking it lol

I probably am over-thinking it haha. They gave me a really generous offer, and I wrote a pretty passionate "Why CWRU/Cleveland" essay in my application, so I figured they probably thought I would attend. Case was the only school out of the 7 I've withdrawn from that hasn't sent me anything. I thought I might have pissed them off?

[2LsAPlenty]

There is not much of a difference between schools in each tier, but there is a huge difference between t2 and t4 schools. You quite literally have no shot of making it out of the city of a t4 school - with a t2 you do have a shot. I have a friend in the top 2-3% at a t4 and can barely land jobs at small firms in her locality (not for interviewing purposes, but because they give them to other schools first).

If you look at the Case information at http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/Home.aspx. it certainly provides some food for thought. Not many make it into Big Law and those six figure salaries. Likely the same at most schools except the very top. Also shows Case is fairly localized.[/quote]
The difference is t4 students can barely get jobs locally. It's pretty easy for a t2 student.[/quote]


Though, I assume you are mostly talking about non-big law positions. Nothing against them at all, but the case numbers don't show many making it to big law.

[snowpeach06]

Though, I assume you are mostly talking about non-big law positions. Nothing against them at all, but the case numbers don't show many making it to big law.

No. I'm talking about jobs period. There are maybe 10 kids a year that get big law (or a boutique that pays as much) out of Case. At a certain point it's not big law that's the issue. It's getting a job at all vs. not. Case doesn't have much biglaw, but at least almost all of us have legal jobs. T4 has even less big law and a sizable number of people are unemployed.

And I have to say, Case has a pretty large population of people that don't even want big law. I was applying to them, and had a few interviews (which, granted, I did not get) but, at a certain point I realized, "I don't want to work 80 hours a week, I'm not interested in the whole big law thing... I genuinely want to work in public interest and policy so why the hell am I even applying?" And I know I'm not the only one. A lot of us have found what we want and it isn't big law. Honestly, I get very annoyed with people who are big law or bust. If you genuinely want it, fine - but don't just want it because other people say you should want it. Most big law people will tell you the job kind of sucks and you barely have time to spend your money. And there are other prestigious jobs that are not big law. Government and public interest jobs can be every bit as competitive as big law - and many Case students get those jobs/internships.

[puremorning]

Though, I assume you are mostly talking about non-big law positions. Nothing against them at all, but the case numbers don't show many making it to big law.

No. I'm talking about jobs period. There are maybe 10 kids a year that get big law (or a boutique that pays as much) out of Case. At a certain point it's not big law that's the issue. It's getting a job at all vs. not. Case doesn't have much biglaw, but at least almost all of us have legal jobs. T4 has even less big law and a sizable number of people are unemployed.

And I have to say, Case has a pretty large population of people that don't even want big law. I was applying to them, and had a few interviews (which, granted, I did not get) but, at a certain point I realized, "I don't want to work 80 hours a week, I'm not interested in the whole big law thing... I genuinely want to work in public interest and policy so why the hell am I even applying?" And I know I'm not the only one. A lot of us have found what we want and it isn't big law. Honestly, I get very annoyed with people who are big law or bust. If you genuinely want it, fine - but don't just want it because other people say you should want it. Most big law people will tell you the job kind of sucks and you barely have time to spend your money. And there are other prestigious jobs that are not big law. Government and public interest jobs can be every bit as competitive as big law - and many Case students get those jobs/internships.

Haha yeah, at the ASW I had a similar convo with my fellow Case TLSers about how TLS is so incredibly biglaw or bust. It's so annoying. My dad works in biglaw and I've grown up knowing that is not what I want to do. It's the reason I dragged my feet on going to law school so much in the first place. I basically grew up without a father and when he was there he was drinking and stressed out from work. Then I dated a guy who was like my dad's twin and it further reaffirmed my distaste for biglaw. I'm PI or bust and compared to the other schools I was applying to I felt like Case will get me the furthest in that field, so that's why I'll be starting there in the fall!

[snowpeach06]

Though, I assume you are mostly talking about non-big law positions. Nothing against them at all, but the case numbers don't show many making it to big law.

No. I'm talking about jobs period. There are maybe 10 kids a year that get big law (or a boutique that pays as much) out of Case. At a certain point it's not big law that's the issue. It's getting a job at all vs. not. Case doesn't have much biglaw, but at least almost all of us have legal jobs. T4 has even less big law and a sizable number of people are unemployed.

And I have to say, Case has a pretty large population of people that don't even want big law. I was applying to them, and had a few interviews (which, granted, I did not get) but, at a certain point I realized, "I don't want to work 80 hours a week, I'm not interested in the whole big law thing... I genuinely want to work in public interest and policy so why the hell am I even applying?" And I know I'm not the only one. A lot of us have found what we want and it isn't big law. Honestly, I get very annoyed with people who are big law or bust. If you genuinely want it, fine - but don't just want it because other people say you should want it. Most big law people will tell you the job kind of sucks and you barely have time to spend your money. And there are other prestigious jobs that are not big law. Government and public interest jobs can be every bit as competitive as big law - and many Case students get those jobs/internships.

Haha yeah, at the ASW I had a similar convo with my fellow Case TLSers about how TLS is so incredibly biglaw or bust. It's so annoying. My dad works in biglaw and I've grown up knowing that is not what I want to do. It's the reason I dragged my feet on going to law school so much in the first place. I basically grew up without a father and when he was there he was drinking and stressed out from work. Then I dated a guy who was like my dad's twin and it further reaffirmed my distaste for biglaw. I'm PI or bust and compared to the other schools I was applying to I felt like Case will get me the furthest in that field, so that's why I'll be starting there in the fall!

Yay! See you next year I suppose!

[ashen]

"Status: Committee Review - Stage 2 of 2
Current Status Date: 2/3/2012"

zzzzzzz

[Sm Firm Hiring P]

Though, I assume you are mostly talking about non-big law positions. Nothing against them at all, but the case numbers don't show many making it to big law.

No. I'm talking about jobs period. There are maybe 10 kids a year that get big law (or a boutique that pays as much) out of Case. At a certain point it's not big law that's the issue. It's getting a job at all vs. not. Case doesn't have much biglaw, but at least almost all of us have legal jobs. T4 has even less big law and a sizable number of people are unemployed.

And I have to say, Case has a pretty large population of people that don't even want big law. I was applying to them, and had a few interviews (which, granted, I did not get) but, at a certain point I realized, "I don't want to work 80 hours a week, I'm not interested in the whole big law thing... I genuinely want to work in public interest and policy so why the hell am I even applying?" And I know I'm not the only one. A lot of us have found what we want and it isn't big law. Honestly, I get very annoyed with people who are big law or bust. If you genuinely want it, fine - but don't just want it because other people say you should want it. Most big law people will tell you the job kind of sucks and you barely have time to spend your money. And there are other prestigious jobs that are not big law. Government and public interest jobs can be every bit as competitive as big law - and many Case students get those jobs/internships.

Snowpeach has a good point. I did biglaw for 3 years in my younger days and that part of my life I don't remember much except wanting to get out, which I finally did. The important point here SP is making (I think) is that you need to manage your expectations. The BS the schools put out about average 1st year incomes of six figures is just that, BS, unless you are talking Yale, Harvard, etc. Unfortunately, you do get unrepresentative response on TLS since most here are gunning for that biglaw, big salary position. The top 5% of the class can get biglaw and can make $ 100,000-$ 160,000 the first year. It drops very, very fast from there. If you are not in the top 50%, perferably top 25%, your chance at private practice is extremely remote unless you work for a solo and will likely make $ 30-40,000 starting. When you have a lot of student debt, this makes for a bleak picture if your first year grades are not that good. Without a 2L summer in a firm or a good clerkship, getting a firm job is also problematic. Of course, there are some very good public and corporate positions that very in pay but most don't pay big time. However, many of those positions can be very rewarding. If you don't have the huge debt, then do what you want and don't be overconsumed about the money. All in all, it is a changed legal world and you just need to have reasonable expectations from the school of your choice and you expected job path.

[legalsinger]

Was just admitted today! How long did it take everyone for scholarship/financial aid info?