Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Grizz » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:11 pm

anewaphorist wrote:And please, let's notice the bias here. Grizz goes to Vandy. I go nowhere yet and have no reason to favor one school over the other.

Grizz wrote:There are plenty of reasons to choose GULC over Vandy, but the specific reasons I quoted a page ago aren't good ones.

anewaphorist
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby anewaphorist » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:12 pm

i ain't mad/grudgin'. i was lightheartedly trolling just like you were


Well as long as the trolling is 'lighthearted'...:)
Last edited by anewaphorist on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cornelius
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:12 pm

anewaphorist wrote:I love TLS. You can't win, because the troll, the funny agitator, always sways the audience, whose attention span is so short they cannot read the actual post history. Apparently, no one can read the page-topping post, in which I attempted to take the high road and be done with whatever bullshit "raging" was instigated. Apparently Grizz, as a Vandy 1L during exam season, has nothing better to do than troll the old posts of admitted students. Why is this not the crime? The crime is being 'mad, bro'?

I think it's more fruitful to discuss employment prospects, so I'll thank Grizz for at least mentioning them in a tertiary way in his post. Look at the numbers. The point is simply that the risk of $70,000 (Vandy's most-given scholarship) is smoothed somewhat (although, of course, not entirely) at GULC. Good LRAP programs make 5-figure debt increments matter even less. And please, let's notice the bias here. Grizz goes to Vandy. I go nowhere yet and have no reason to favor one school over the other.

Seems like other internet grudges are coming to the surface ITT. I absolve myself of that particular responsibility.

Talking about taking the high road and then engaging anyway does not equate to taking the high road because you mentioned it in passing. I'd hardly call what Grizz did trolling, nor would I categorize it as an old post that he resurrected from the post graveyard. We're talking the past couple days here, and I see more common sense in his rationale than in yours. I'm not sure where you're seeing anything that would indicate employment prospects at GULC are significantly better than at Vandy, generally, and as Grizz pointed out, the DC market is not "closed" to Vandy. Maybe provide some substance to the argument?

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dakure
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby dakure » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:13 pm

horrorbusiness wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
I'd hardly say this was an 'unsolicited entrance'. I've been posting in this thread for at least a month now. As for your butthurtness: you were being a dumbass, I called you out. Get over it, horrorbusiness. How long can you hold a meaningless internet grudge for?


operative word in my previous post was "argument" (not thread). contrary to your belief and your many insistings (might not be a word), i ain't mad/grudgin'. i was lightheartedly trolling just like you were :mrgreen:

no. no. i'm pretty sure you were mad.

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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby horrorbusiness » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:14 pm

anewaphorist wrote:
i ain't mad/grudgin'. i was lightheartedly trolling just like you were


Well as long as the trolling is 'lighthearted'...:)


:wink:

edit 4 dakure: okay your post seriously made me LOL. :lol: you guys are fun.

anewaphorist
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby anewaphorist » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:15 pm

I'm not sure where you're seeing anything that would indicate employment prospects at GULC are significantly better than at Vandy, generally, and as Grizz pointed out, the DC market is not "closed" to Vandy. Maybe provide some substance to the argument?


I'm talking about DC, specifically, which as I mentioned is the only major market where Vandy trails Georgetown. There are no major markets where Georgetown trails Vandy. Thus, Georgetown job prospects are at least marginally better than Vandy's, especially if you're looking government PI (which, as I mentioned as a preface to my initial, initial post, is my situation). This, combined with my semi-unique situation, was the impetus for the post in which I 'maligned' Vandy's DC placement and endorsed the possible $70k difference in COA. If you need employment numbers to solidify the above logic, I'm not wasting my time to provide them.

It looks like vanderbilt places as well, if not better, than gulc. 58% ish are making above 115, which isnt a salary to be looked down on at any means, or has an article 3 clerkship. Gulc, on the otherhand, you can confidently report only 38% confidently making over 100 k or clerkships


Self-selection for DC as well as the strikeout factor at GULC vs. the play-it-safe Southern legal market focus of many Vandy grads helps explain this. And find numbers for DC, which is the only city relevant to the discussion.
Last edited by anewaphorist on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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chem
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby chem » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:16 pm

anewaphorist wrote:I love TLS. You can't win, because the troll, the funny agitator, always sways the audience, whose attention span is so short they cannot read the actual post history. Apparently, no one can read the page-topping post, in which I attempted to take the high road and be done with whatever bullshit "raging" was instigated. Apparently Grizz, as a Vandy 1L during exam season, has nothing better to do than troll the old posts of admitted students. Why is this not the crime? The crime is being 'mad, bro'?

I think it's more fruitful to discuss employment prospects, so I'll thank Grizz for at least mentioning them in a tertiary way in his post. Look at the numbers. The point is simply that the risk of $70,000 (Vandy's most-given scholarship) is smoothed somewhat (although, of course, not entirely) at GULC. Good LRAP programs make 5-figure debt increments matter even less. And please, let's notice the bias here. Grizz goes to Vandy. I go nowhere yet and have no reason to favor one school over the other.

Seems like other internet grudges are coming to the surface ITT. I absolve myself of that particular unintended consequence of people calling me 'misinformed'.


--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like vanderbilt places as well, if not better, than gulc. 58% ish are making above 115, which isnt a salary to be looked down on at any means, or has an article 3 clerkship. Gulc, on the otherhand, you can confidently report only 38% confidently making over 100 k or clerkships

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Cornelius
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:18 pm

anewaphorist wrote:
I'm not sure where you're seeing anything that would indicate employment prospects at GULC are significantly better than at Vandy, generally, and as Grizz pointed out, the DC market is not "closed" to Vandy. Maybe provide some substance to the argument?


I'm talking about DC, specifically, which as I mentioned is the only major market where Vandy trails Georgetown. There are no major markets where Georgetown trails Vandy. Thus, Georgetown job prospects are at least marginally better than Vandy's, especially if you're looking government PI (which, as I mentioned as a preface to my initial, initial post, is my situation). This, combined with my semi-unique situation, was the impetus for the post in which I 'maligned' Vandy's DC placement and endorsed the possible $70k difference in COA. If you need employment numbers to solidify the above logic, I'm not wasting my time to provide them.

Acknowledge employment prospects from two schools are extremely similar with one possible, minor exception -> call schools "non-peer". Does not logically compute.

I won't go into the actual employment numbers as the post above mine already did that quite well.
Last edited by Cornelius on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Grizz » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:19 pm

Again, just FYI, bigfed is basically not hiring.

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FlanAl
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby FlanAl » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:20 pm

if you are looking for gov/pi compare schools lraps. in that regard gtown wins. I had to decide between the two schools last year (went somewhere else off a wait list) if anyone has questions deciding between the two schools feel free to pm.

I only came on this thread to say that if you do get accepted make sure to go to vandy's accepted students weekend. I don't think I'll ever have as much fun with anything associated with a law school ever again haha.

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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby anewaphorist » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:20 pm

Image

If you think any school in the T-14 is a peer of a non-T-14 school. Arbitrary, sure, but that's the way it goes.

EDIT: Thanks for the helpful post, Al. Really wish we would all latch onto what he's saying instead of what other morons are.
Last edited by anewaphorist on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FlanAl
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby FlanAl » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm

also from my own random research (looking at where 2011 SA's at firms were from) vandy seemed to do pretty darn well in southern california if anyone is interested in that.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Grizz » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm

anewaphorist wrote:If you think any school in the T-14 is a peer of a non-T-14 school. Arbitrary, sure, but that's the way it goes.

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Cornelius
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm

anewaphorist wrote:If you think any school in the T-14 is a peer of a non-T-14 school. Arbitrary, sure, but that's the way it goes.

EDIT: Thanks for the helpful post, Al. Really wish we would all latch onto what he's saying instead of what other morons are.

I can confidently say I would consider Texas and Vanderbilt peers, at a minimum. Arbitrary? Definitely. Probably idiotic too.
Last edited by Cornelius on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Grizz » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm

FlanAl wrote:also from my own random research (looking at where 2011 SA's at firms were from) vandy seemed to do pretty darn well in southern california if anyone is interested in that.

This is actually surprisingly true.

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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:24 pm

FlanAl wrote:also from my own random research (looking at where 2011 SA's at firms were from) vandy seemed to do pretty darn well in southern california if anyone is interested in that.

I'm from socal and just had my intvw last night. My interviewer said they seem to be making a push to increase their connections/alumni base/name recognition in California even more, so maybe that'll bode well for those of us from the West Coast looking to return after graduation! :mrgreen:

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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby anewaphorist » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:27 pm

Vandy is actually one of the only schools that has seen its numbers go up in SoCal. Even USC has suffered in the last 3 years.

Cornelius, Texas has never been considered a T-14. They've only cracked the rankings this year, because they were the 15th school to be included. What makes the T-14 what it is has to do with the fact that none of them has ever fallen outside those top spots in the rankings. Texas is a great school, but it's still more regional than every other T-14. I'll support your comparison. Try looking at GULC or Cornell or even Northwestern as a peer to a non-T-14, and you're not comparing apples to apples.

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Hannibal
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hannibal » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:38 pm

The parties are advised to chill.

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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby anewaphorist » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:40 pm

Agreed. Anyone besides Grizz and Cornelius wanna e-hit this bong I'm chalking up?

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smokeylarue
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby smokeylarue » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:56 pm

How fast did your guys packages come. I got decision mailed status yesterday.

Nvm: got it today
Last edited by smokeylarue on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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drylo
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby drylo » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Wow. I had been checking on this thread every so often to see what was going on with admissions, and suddenly it has exploded. With no intention of sparking a flame war, I do want to throw a few comments out there.

First of all, congrats to all you Vandy admits. We would love to have you here next year!

Second, you should not compare the cost-of-attendance numbers that the schools publish. For example, Vandy gives a much bigger cushion in the student budget than Cornell does. You should compare tuition numbers and then also look at housing costs in the two areas. In other words, Vandy's published COA number is only useful as a means of knowing how big of a student loan you can get--not necessarily as the actual cost of attendance.

Grizz wrote:
anewaphorist wrote:Nice, ncterp!

Re job prospects, certain markets are essentially closed to Vandy grads. Look at D.C.: Georgetown places very well there, whereas Vandy does not. On the other hand, there are no major markets that would take Vandy over Georgetown, whereas clearly there's at least one that prefers Georgetown grads and represents their alumni far more than they do VLS grads.

It's definitely not essentially closed, but you're gonna need pretty damn good grades, but that's not unusual for DC firms, from anywhere.


Third, Grizz is correct here. Furthermore, I have no doubt that more GULC students stay in DC (than Vanderbilt students go to DC), but it is a non sequitur to assume therefore that Vandy students can't get to DC. But you do need good grades (from any school, as far as I can tell).

Grizz wrote:
anewaphorist wrote:To boil it down to pure numbers, the question seems to be, "Is Georgetown worth 70k more than Vandy?" Over the course of an entire career, the difference alone in the legal job prospects of a T14 graduate versus one who attended a non-peer school justifies the cost. This is all assuming an equal class rank at either school, of course. Yes, the T14 cutoff is aribitrary, but even a graduate of the #14 school had to make it through the 8th most selective application process--the numbers of Georgetown's admits are quite a bit higher than some T14s, and this too plays into hiring.

This is dumb. If anything, where you go to matters less as your career progresses. 8th most selective admissions means nothing in re hiring (see, e.g., Cornell and Michigan having better NLJ250 placement than GULC despite being less selective). I would never take GULC over Vandy at $70k.


Grizz is right here, too. If there is any benefit to GULC over Vandy (which is a questionable assumption, at best), you are going to more or less exhaust that benefit in your first job search. I am not going to say that GULC is never worth $70k (plus interest) more than Vandy to anybody, but I will say that I can't imagine a scenario where I would pay more to go to GULC than Vandy.

anewaphorist wrote:
Doesn't seem that way to me, just correcting another misinformed poster.


Misinformed? The topic under discussion was entirely one of preference/individual judgment. 'Misinformed'? Because I'd be willing to forego the cost of a Land Rover for a shot at the best school in the DC area (and, by extension, a government/PI job there)? The personalities ITT are so grating. Why can't you just let someone respond to a hypothetical that was being bounced around a few pages ago? If you think that prestigious employment in D.C. ain't worth a dime extra, then that's fine. I think it is. I thought I took the mickey out of this bullshit by not engaging in Grizz's self-aggrandizement. Apparently, there's one other poster fueling the idiotic fire, thinking it's "misinformed" to hold employment prospects that in any way differ from his own.

I've already been accepted to this school, so I'm more interested in finding out the potential classmates I'd have should I choose to matriculate. The small sample size of 1Ls and prospective 0Ls has not been represented well. With students that offer profound critiques--like calling my post,
dumb stuff
--how could I not be sold on Vandy, on the caliber of students I'd be working with? Way to go, Grizz; you're driving away a student with #s above both medians in an already moribund application season. I'm sure Vandy's admissions office appreciates your handiwork.

FWIW, it would be great to return to the purpose of this thread. Somehow, I doubt this will happen. Good luck to all those accepted, and it sure would be great to have some meaningful discussion here, just in case some redeeming quality of the school/its students/its career prospects would surface.


Dude. You're making my eyes bleed. The pomposity of the bolded is nauseating. And not to hate on 0Ls too much, but why do you have to insist you know so much more about Vandy's employment stats (and hiring/employment in general) than 2Ls and 3Ls at the school?

Hannibal wrote:The parties are advised to chill.


LOL.

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gavinstevens
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby gavinstevens » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:37 pm

Getting the thread back on topic...

Finally submitted today after some LOR and interview delays. One of my top choices.

Mentlegen
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Mentlegen » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:37 pm

I received my complete email today after submitting my application on 11-30.

kitkat450
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby kitkat450 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:03 pm

smokeylarue wrote:How fast did your guys packages come. I got decision mailed status yesterday.

Nvm: got it today


Jealous!!! Guess i'll look out for it tomorrow : (

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msblaw89
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Re: Vanderbilt c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby msblaw89 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:05 pm

Have 11/07 completes been getting packages? Just trying to see if I have been left behind haha. I do have an interview set up with an assistant dean of admissions this middle of this month... So I wonder if that might have something to do with it




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