IOWA 2012

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sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:35 pm

chrisbru wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:[

Personally I would take Iowa over U of M if you get any substantial money, even if you're after Minneapolis. We had an exceptional Minneapolis showing at OCI this year: Faegre, Gray Plant, Lindquist, Dorsey, Briggs & Morgan, Oppenheimer, Fredrikson, etc. If you have ties and grades, landing something in MN would not be particularly difficult.



This is good advice ONLY if have substantial ties to MN. Also, grades are not guaranteed, and there are quite a few more spots open to MN graduates in the top 50% than to Iowa's top 50%.


Yeah, Iowa does just fine with Minnesota firms, but not as good as U of Minn does with Minnesota firms. It really shouldn't be expected to. Every MN firm that does OCI at Iowa ALSO does OCI at Minny, and several do OCI at Minny but not at Iowa.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:47 pm

Every MN firm that does OCI at Iowa ALSO does OCI at Minny, and several do OCI at Minny but not at Iowa.


Love the use of formal logic.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:50 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:I don't think your laptop size is going to be a huge concern either way. That being said, 17" is kind of big just from a practical perspective. Your desk space will be limited with peers to your left and right, and if you have a casebook open, a print-out, a syllabus, notes, or a supplement open in some classes (in civil procedure, tax, some other classes you'll almost always have two books open), then the footprint of your 17" laptop might get annoying. I actually traded with my wife recently to go from a 16" to a 13.3" and much prefer the smaller laptop in class. Aside from going down to a netbook, the smaller the better IMO. All you're going to use it for in class is to surf the internet, write emails, and take notes (in that order) anyway.


It's been a while since I visited Boyd, but are the desks the typical UG size that can barely fit a full notebook on them? Or are they smart and have the big long tables with multiple seats per table? Man, no idea why I can't remember this from visiting.

That is nevertheless a good reason to consider down-sizing. I hate feeling flustered for space.

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chrisbru
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:24 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:It's been a while since I visited Boyd, but are the desks the typical UG size that can barely fit a full notebook on them? Or are they smart and have the big long tables with multiple seats per table? Man, no idea why I can't remember this from visiting.

That is nevertheless a good reason to consider down-sizing. I hate feeling flustered for space.


Seating is at tables with moveable chairs (in, I think, all but the big auditorium, which has fixed benches.) However, first year classes are quite crowded. I can't fit more than my 13" laptop and my textbook in "my" space without feeling like I'm spilling over to my neighbor's space, but I'm sure a 17" would be ok. You just might have to work the angles better than I do to keep your desk footprint low. haha.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:09 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Every MN firm that does OCI at Iowa ALSO does OCI at Minny, and several do OCI at Minny but not at Iowa.


Love the use of formal logic.


I'm going to use a Venn diagram to solve this one.

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traehekat
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby traehekat » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:21 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:[

Personally I would take Iowa over U of M if you get any substantial money, even if you're after Minneapolis. We had an exceptional Minneapolis showing at OCI this year: Faegre, Gray Plant, Lindquist, Dorsey, Briggs & Morgan, Oppenheimer, Fredrikson, etc. If you have ties and grades, landing something in MN would not be particularly difficult.



This is good advice ONLY if have substantial ties to MN. Also, grades are not guaranteed, and there are quite a few more spots open to MN graduates in the top 50% than to Iowa's top 50%.


Yeah, Iowa does just fine with Minnesota firms, but not as good as U of Minn does with Minnesota firms. It really shouldn't be expected to. Every MN firm that does OCI at Iowa ALSO does OCI at Minny, and several do OCI at Minny but not at Iowa.


From what I have heard, you really need ties to MN in order to crack that market. When I was devising a plan for OCI at Iowa, career services told me to forget about MN and just focus on where I actually wanted to go. I would have felt stupid not bidding on a significant portion of the big firms coming to OCI, but I guess a lot of MN firms despise non-MN students (especially those with ties to Chicago...) because they inevitably leave after a few years at the firm.

hawkeye22
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby hawkeye22 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:34 pm

traehekat wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:[

Personally I would take Iowa over U of M if you get any substantial money, even if you're after Minneapolis. We had an exceptional Minneapolis showing at OCI this year: Faegre, Gray Plant, Lindquist, Dorsey, Briggs & Morgan, Oppenheimer, Fredrikson, etc. If you have ties and grades, landing something in MN would not be particularly difficult.



This is good advice ONLY if have substantial ties to MN. Also, grades are not guaranteed, and there are quite a few more spots open to MN graduates in the top 50% than to Iowa's top 50%.


Yeah, Iowa does just fine with Minnesota firms, but not as good as U of Minn does with Minnesota firms. It really shouldn't be expected to. Every MN firm that does OCI at Iowa ALSO does OCI at Minny, and several do OCI at Minny but not at Iowa.


From what I have heard, you really need ties to MN in order to crack that market. When I was devising a plan for OCI at Iowa, career services told me to forget about MN and just focus on where I actually wanted to go. I would have felt stupid not bidding on a significant portion of the big firms coming to OCI, but I guess a lot of MN firms despise non-MN students (especially those with ties to Chicago...) because they inevitably leave after a few years at the firm.


I think the main difference between Iowa and MN is that MN has a much stronger showing of smaller MN firms at its OCI. Given that we had every Minneapolis firm over 100 lawyers show up and most (if not all) offer callbacks, Iowa's Minnesota Biglawl placement probably isn't too far removed from MN's.

sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:04 pm

hawkeye22 wrote:I think the main difference between Iowa and MN is that MN has a much stronger showing of smaller MN firms at its OCI. Given that we had every Minneapolis firm over 100 lawyers show up and most (if not all) offer callbacks, Iowa's Minnesota Biglawl placement probably isn't too far removed from MN's.


I don't know where you'd get that idea. Interviewing and hiring are different things. The first firm I looked (Dorsey & Whitney, picked them because I think they're the biggest in Minn?) has 3 times as many Minny law grads as Iowa law grads. You can run a search here: http://www.dorsey.com/people/

Iowa places alright in Minneapolis, but let's not be dishonest to the prospective students here. We're all playing the same game and the truth is the most important thing.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:09 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:I think the main difference between Iowa and MN is that MN has a much stronger showing of smaller MN firms at its OCI. Given that we had every Minneapolis firm over 100 lawyers show up and most (if not all) offer callbacks, Iowa's Minnesota Biglawl placement probably isn't too far removed from MN's.


I don't know where you'd get that idea. Interviewing and hiring are different things. The first firm I looked (Dorsey & Whitney, picked them because I think they're the biggest in Minn?) has 3 times as many Minny law grads as Iowa law grads. You can run a search here: http://www.dorsey.com/people/

Iowa places alright in Minneapolis, but let's not be dishonest to the prospective students here. We're all playing the same game and the truth is the most important thing.


As a prospective student, it seems obvious that UMN would place better in Minneapolis. This doesn't mean that Iowa can't place in Minneapolis, just that UMN is the easier choice.

hawkeye22
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby hawkeye22 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:12 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:I think the main difference between Iowa and MN is that MN has a much stronger showing of smaller MN firms at its OCI. Given that we had every Minneapolis firm over 100 lawyers show up and most (if not all) offer callbacks, Iowa's Minnesota Biglawl placement probably isn't too far removed from MN's.


I don't know where you'd get that idea. Interviewing and hiring are different things. The first firm I looked (Dorsey & Whitney, picked them because I think they're the biggest in Minn?) has 3 times as many Minny law grads as Iowa law grads. You can run a search here: http://www.dorsey.com/people/

Iowa places alright in Minneapolis, but let's not be dishonest to the prospective students here. We're all playing the same game and the truth is the most important thing.


I got the idea from going through Iowa's OCI. Of course MN firms have more MN grads due to a combination of self-selection and better placement. I'm not saying that they're dead even, just that getting a job in MN from Iowa is not difficult if you're already Biglaw competitive.

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nickjive
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby nickjive » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:56 am

I have a feeling another round of decisions will begin either today or tomorrow

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neeko
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby neeko » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:07 am

nickjive wrote:I have a feeling another round of decisions will begin either today or tomorrow


According to LSN they took some today. Not I.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:17 am

neeko wrote:
nickjive wrote:I have a feeling another round of decisions will begin either today or tomorrow


According to LSN they took some today. Not I.


Don't worry. Mine was three days into the wave.

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auburnbelle89
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby auburnbelle89 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:36 am

In via status checker! OOS - Stats in profile. Good luck to those still waiting.

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nickjive
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby nickjive » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:57 am

auburnbelle89 wrote:In via status checker! OOS - Stats in profile. Good luck to those still waiting.


Congrats and thank you!

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nickjive
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby nickjive » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:59 am

auburnbelle89 wrote:In via status checker! OOS - Stats in profile. Good luck to those still waiting.


BTW, when did you submit, go Complete, In review, etc.?

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auburnbelle89
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby auburnbelle89 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:16 pm

nickjive wrote:
auburnbelle89 wrote:In via status checker! OOS - Stats in profile. Good luck to those still waiting.


BTW, when did you submit, go Complete, In review, etc.?


I submitted October 25, went complete October 28, and went into review a couple of weeks after that.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:01 pm

Congrats AuburnBelle89! I'm sure you'll get some money with those stats. Is Iowa a top pick for you?

When did we decide we were expecting scholly info? I have someone on LSN asking me and I can't find it.

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chrisbru
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby chrisbru » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:17 pm

Opie wrote:Congrats AuburnBelle89! I'm sure you'll get some money with those stats. Is Iowa a top pick for you?

When did we decide we were expecting scholly info? I have someone on LSN asking me and I can't find it.


Between now and early March. I know its a big window, but it just depends on how the cards fall.

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auburnbelle89
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby auburnbelle89 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Opie wrote:Congrats AuburnBelle89! I'm sure you'll get some money with those stats. Is Iowa a top pick for you?

When did we decide we were expecting scholly info? I have someone on LSN asking me and I can't find it.


Between now and early March. I know its a big window, but it just depends on how the cards fall.


I am still open to most schools at this point. Since I am from the South, I'd kind of like to stay there, but I have family in Iowa and have heard great things about the school! Definitely keeping it as an option pending scholly info.

sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:40 pm

hawkeye22 wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:
hawkeye22 wrote:I think the main difference between Iowa and MN is that MN has a much stronger showing of smaller MN firms at its OCI. Given that we had every Minneapolis firm over 100 lawyers show up and most (if not all) offer callbacks, Iowa's Minnesota Biglawl placement probably isn't too far removed from MN's.


I don't know where you'd get that idea. Interviewing and hiring are different things. The first firm I looked (Dorsey & Whitney, picked them because I think they're the biggest in Minn?) has 3 times as many Minny law grads as Iowa law grads. You can run a search here: http://www.dorsey.com/people/

Iowa places alright in Minneapolis, but let's not be dishonest to the prospective students here. We're all playing the same game and the truth is the most important thing.


I got the idea from going through Iowa's OCI. Of course MN firms have more MN grads due to a combination of self-selection and better placement. I'm not saying that they're dead even, just that getting a job in MN from Iowa is not difficult if you're already Biglaw competitive.


Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not difficult." Not difficult in this case means that you probably have half the chance of a MN job out of U Iowa than U Minn, and maybe five people in your class of 200 at Iowa will get a job at Dorsey / Faegre / etc.

It seems Iowa places a lot better in Chicago than Minneapolis? I know of more people with Chi jobs than MN jobs. I'm not sure if the Chicago firms like U Minn or U Iowa grads better. Maybe about the same?

Anyway, Iowa places alright in both Minnesota and Illinois, but the main advantage of going to Iowa over a place like U Minn or Ill-Champaign remains job placement in Iowa, including some solid midlaw jobs in Des Moines and some really interesting (IMO) small firm jobs that pop up from time to time. If you're absolutely set on placement in Minneapolis, Chicago, or both combined, there are probably better options among peer schools who might be only slightly more selective, including Notre Dame and maybe U Minn, with the future of U-Ill's reputation uncertain.

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chrisbru
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby chrisbru » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:31 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:

Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not difficult." Not difficult in this case means that you probably have half the chance of a MN job out of U Iowa than U Minn, and maybe five people in your class of 200 at Iowa will get a job at Dorsey / Faegre / etc.

It seems Iowa places a lot better in Chicago than Minneapolis? I know of more people with Chi jobs than MN jobs. I'm not sure if the Chicago firms like U Minn or U Iowa grads better. Maybe about the same?

Anyway, Iowa places alright in both Minnesota and Illinois, but the main advantage of going to Iowa over a place like U Minn or Ill-Champaign remains job placement in Iowa, including some solid midlaw jobs in Des Moines and some really interesting (IMO) small firm jobs that pop up from time to time. If you're absolutely set on placement in Minneapolis, Chicago, or both combined, there are probably better options among peer schools who might be only slightly more selective, including Notre Dame and maybe U Minn, with the future of U-Ill's reputation uncertain.


I think Iowa students typically shoot for Chicago over Minneapolis, to be honest, which might explain part of that. The other part is that there are more jobs in Chicago than Minneapolis.

From what I've heard, Iowa and Minnesota are about the same as far as preference from Chicago firms. However, there are more Minnesota students who shoot for Minneapolis over Chicago than there are Iowa students that do the same.

Agreed that other schools make more sense for Chicago or Minneapolis placement than Iowa. If you can't get into Northwestern or U Chi, then Iowa is probably as good of a bet as Minnesota, and not as good as Illinois.

My opinion only though, I can't say for sure.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:

Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not difficult." Not difficult in this case means that you probably have half the chance of a MN job out of U Iowa than U Minn, and maybe five people in your class of 200 at Iowa will get a job at Dorsey / Faegre / etc.

It seems Iowa places a lot better in Chicago than Minneapolis? I know of more people with Chi jobs than MN jobs. I'm not sure if the Chicago firms like U Minn or U Iowa grads better. Maybe about the same?

Anyway, Iowa places alright in both Minnesota and Illinois, but the main advantage of going to Iowa over a place like U Minn or Ill-Champaign remains job placement in Iowa, including some solid midlaw jobs in Des Moines and some really interesting (IMO) small firm jobs that pop up from time to time. If you're absolutely set on placement in Minneapolis, Chicago, or both combined, there are probably better options among peer schools who might be only slightly more selective, including Notre Dame and maybe U Minn, with the future of U-Ill's reputation uncertain.


I think Iowa students typically shoot for Chicago over Minneapolis, to be honest, which might explain part of that. The other part is that there are more jobs in Chicago than Minneapolis.

From what I've heard, Iowa and Minnesota are about the same as far as preference from Chicago firms. However, there are more Minnesota students who shoot for Minneapolis over Chicago than there are Iowa students that do the same.

Agreed that other schools make more sense for Chicago or Minneapolis placement than Iowa. If you can't get into Northwestern or U Chi, then Iowa is probably as good of a bet as Minnesota, and not as good as Illinois.

My opinion only though, I can't say for sure.


Man, kids would honestly pick Chicago over Minneapolis? I may sound like an idiot here, but I would hate to live in Chicago compared to Minneapolis. I seriously love Minneapolis. I'm not anti big-city (I love NYC), but I just can't foster any love for Chicago.

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Flappy Scribbleneck
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Flappy Scribbleneck » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:57 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:

Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not difficult." Not difficult in this case means that you probably have half the chance of a MN job out of U Iowa than U Minn, and maybe five people in your class of 200 at Iowa will get a job at Dorsey / Faegre / etc.

It seems Iowa places a lot better in Chicago than Minneapolis? I know of more people with Chi jobs than MN jobs. I'm not sure if the Chicago firms like U Minn or U Iowa grads better. Maybe about the same?

Anyway, Iowa places alright in both Minnesota and Illinois, but the main advantage of going to Iowa over a place like U Minn or Ill-Champaign remains job placement in Iowa, including some solid midlaw jobs in Des Moines and some really interesting (IMO) small firm jobs that pop up from time to time. If you're absolutely set on placement in Minneapolis, Chicago, or both combined, there are probably better options among peer schools who might be only slightly more selective, including Notre Dame and maybe U Minn, with the future of U-Ill's reputation uncertain.


I think Iowa students typically shoot for Chicago over Minneapolis, to be honest, which might explain part of that. The other part is that there are more jobs in Chicago than Minneapolis.

From what I've heard, Iowa and Minnesota are about the same as far as preference from Chicago firms. However, there are more Minnesota students who shoot for Minneapolis over Chicago than there are Iowa students that do the same.

Agreed that other schools make more sense for Chicago or Minneapolis placement than Iowa. If you can't get into Northwestern or U Chi, then Iowa is probably as good of a bet as Minnesota, and not as good as Illinois.

My opinion only though, I can't say for sure.


I am from Texas. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect if I go to SMU or U of Houston. For example, if one attends SMU, the "plan" is to work in Dallas or Ft. Worth. Someone from SMU generally does not try to work in Houston - it is not part of the typically achievable "plan" (maybe not impossible, just not generally attempted).
I know nothing about the plan at Iowa, so to speak. What is the typical plan for an Iowa Law student after school, is it to aim for Chicago and fall back on Des Moines? Is the average student aiming for Big Law? or is it more of a try for Big Law but happy with Mid Law (not for lack of opportunities, but just from a more laid back, less gunner-ish point of view)? It seems to me that an Iowa grad has more options in terms of markets than an SMU or UofH grad. Maybe another way to say this is that Iowa's region is a little larger in terms of square mileage and includes some interesting smaller markets. But maybe it also overlaps with some bigger schools in the region. Help me understand the landscape and the plan at Iowa.

hawkeye22
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby hawkeye22 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:40 pm

Flappy Scribbleneck wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:

Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not difficult." Not difficult in this case means that you probably have half the chance of a MN job out of U Iowa than U Minn, and maybe five people in your class of 200 at Iowa will get a job at Dorsey / Faegre / etc.

It seems Iowa places a lot better in Chicago than Minneapolis? I know of more people with Chi jobs than MN jobs. I'm not sure if the Chicago firms like U Minn or U Iowa grads better. Maybe about the same?

Anyway, Iowa places alright in both Minnesota and Illinois, but the main advantage of going to Iowa over a place like U Minn or Ill-Champaign remains job placement in Iowa, including some solid midlaw jobs in Des Moines and some really interesting (IMO) small firm jobs that pop up from time to time. If you're absolutely set on placement in Minneapolis, Chicago, or both combined, there are probably better options among peer schools who might be only slightly more selective, including Notre Dame and maybe U Minn, with the future of U-Ill's reputation uncertain.


I think Iowa students typically shoot for Chicago over Minneapolis, to be honest, which might explain part of that. The other part is that there are more jobs in Chicago than Minneapolis.

From what I've heard, Iowa and Minnesota are about the same as far as preference from Chicago firms. However, there are more Minnesota students who shoot for Minneapolis over Chicago than there are Iowa students that do the same.

Agreed that other schools make more sense for Chicago or Minneapolis placement than Iowa. If you can't get into Northwestern or U Chi, then Iowa is probably as good of a bet as Minnesota, and not as good as Illinois.

My opinion only though, I can't say for sure.


I am from Texas. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect if I go to SMU or U of Houston. For example, if one attends SMU, the "plan" is to work in Dallas or Ft. Worth. Someone from SMU generally does not try to work in Houston - it is not part of the typically achievable "plan" (maybe not impossible, just not generally attempted).
I know nothing about the plan at Iowa, so to speak. What is the typical plan for an Iowa Law student after school, is it to aim for Chicago and fall back on Des Moines? Is the average student aiming for Big Law? or is it more of a try for Big Law but happy with Mid Law (not for lack of opportunities, but just from a more laid back, less gunner-ish point of view)? It seems to me that an Iowa grad has more options in terms of markets than an SMU or UofH grad. Maybe another way to say this is that Iowa's region is a little larger in terms of square mileage and includes some interesting smaller markets. But maybe it also overlaps with some bigger schools in the region. Help me understand the landscape and the plan at Iowa.


Iowa sends people all over, though its a rough economy and many did not get their choice of market. I know people going to Arizona, Colorado, NYC, California, Chicago, Ohio, Iowa, KC, etc. You have a fair number of options if you do well. I don't think that there's a typical 'game plan' per se, most of my friends were more interested in finding a job they really liked than gunning for a specific geographic region. Of the people I know that were after a specific region (mostly Chicago) I'd say around half of them got it.

Iowa is not a good school to attend if you are determined to go to one particular market. Most notably, I think that admissions significantly over-represents our Chicago placement. The thing that makes Iowa a better choice for many people looking at similarly ranked Midwestern schools is the combination of high scholarships and relatively equal placement.

FWIW I don't know too many people working in Iowa. Iowa obviously dominates the state (though Drake does surprisingly well in Des Moines), but there isn't a tremendous amount of firm hiring here.
Last edited by hawkeye22 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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