IOWA 2012

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sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:33 pm

Trojan228 wrote:So I did a self guided tour of Boyd over the past week. (I plan to do a real one when I can). I would have to say my impression of the school dropped somewhat once I saw the inside of the building. It was just unimpressive, but obviously there is much more to choosing a law school than the facilities.

It is somewhat like wearing nice clothes, though. When you dress up, you act differently; more professional maybe. Then when I got accepted to Marquette this week, I learned how fantastic their facilities are (brand new building), and the fact that they have a sports law specialty is pretty interesting to me. Well my question is this:

Would I really be stupid to go to a tier 2 (Marquette) over Iowa, if accepted at both. I wont be receiving any scholarship money from Iowa, but expect a substantial amount from Marquette, so the cost could either be equal or less to go to Milwaukee. I notice that their average salary out of school is substantially lower, and I am also interested in the JD / MBA route to an extent, knowing that Tippie is fantastic but not discounting that Marquette has a strong business program also.

What a tough decision I'll have to make. I am visiting Marquette hopefully in January; but Boyd didn't impress me to say the least, and UIowa has always done a terrible job of selling itself to me. That being said, their ranking is much stronger. Maybe someone can tell me what Iowa has to offer that justifies its #26 ranking, that would be helpful.

Oh yeah and GO HAWKS.... beat Nebraska!


You're not going to practice sports law, so take that out of your decision-making process and go from there.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:42 pm

Here's a question: what do you guys recommend for classes?

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40_Minus_1
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby 40_Minus_1 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:41 pm

Opie wrote:Here's a question: what do you guys recommend for classes?

Pretty sure you don't get a choice during your first year.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:37 pm

40_Minus_1 wrote:
Opie wrote:Here's a question: what do you guys recommend for classes?

Pretty sure you don't get a choice during your first year.


You don't, other than a spring elective. I'm talking about law school in general. What is useful?

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traehekat
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby traehekat » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:13 pm

Opie wrote:
40_Minus_1 wrote:
Opie wrote:Here's a question: what do you guys recommend for classes?

Pretty sure you don't get a choice during your first year.


You don't, other than a spring elective. I'm talking about law school in general. What is useful?


You don't by any means have to take all of these but here is a quick list off the top of my head of classes you might want to take before you graduate:

Evidence
Business Associations
Criminal Procedure
Administrative Law
Tax
Intellectual Property
Constitutional Law II
Federal Courts (more so if you want to clerk)

Pepper those more substantive classes with seminars, clinics, and perhaps Trial Advocacy.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:51 pm

traehekat wrote:
Opie wrote:
40_Minus_1 wrote:
Opie wrote:Here's a question: what do you guys recommend for classes?

Pretty sure you don't get a choice during your first year.


You don't, other than a spring elective. I'm talking about law school in general. What is useful?


You don't by any means have to take all of these but here is a quick list off the top of my head of classes you might want to take before you graduate:

Evidence
Business Associations
Criminal Procedure
Administrative Law
Tax
Intellectual Property
Constitutional Law II
Federal Courts (more so if you want to clerk)

Pepper those more substantive classes with seminars, clinics, and perhaps Trial Advocacy.


Other than IP and and evidence, I had planned on all of those. What are the benefits of IP and evidence?

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Trojan228
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Trojan228 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:07 am

sebastian0622 wrote:
Trojan228 wrote:So I did a self guided tour of Boyd over the past week. (I plan to do a real one when I can). I would have to say my impression of the school dropped somewhat once I saw the inside of the building. It was just unimpressive, but obviously there is much more to choosing a law school than the facilities.

It is somewhat like wearing nice clothes, though. When you dress up, you act differently; more professional maybe. Then when I got accepted to Marquette this week, I learned how fantastic their facilities are (brand new building), and the fact that they have a sports law specialty is pretty interesting to me. Well my question is this:

Would I really be stupid to go to a tier 2 (Marquette) over Iowa, if accepted at both. I wont be receiving any scholarship money from Iowa, but expect a substantial amount from Marquette, so the cost could either be equal or less to go to Milwaukee. I notice that their average salary out of school is substantially lower, and I am also interested in the JD / MBA route to an extent, knowing that Tippie is fantastic but not discounting that Marquette has a strong business program also.

What a tough decision I'll have to make. I am visiting Marquette hopefully in January; but Boyd didn't impress me to say the least, and UIowa has always done a terrible job of selling itself to me. That being said, their ranking is much stronger. Maybe someone can tell me what Iowa has to offer that justifies its #26 ranking, that would be helpful.

Oh yeah and GO HAWKS.... beat Nebraska!


You're not going to practice sports law, so take that out of your decision-making process and go from there.


Yeah I am pretty sure you can do a lot of things with a law degree with a sports emphasis, although it may not be necessary? You could be an agent, or be a part of an athletic program's legal team or even an athletic director. I dont know why you think that you cannot practice sports law, its a highly relevant field. Or have you not seen the various NFL / NBA lockouts this year? Pretty sure there are tons of lawyers working to 'fix' problems such as that. Iowa is my top choice, but I do think 'sports law' is relevant.

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jbabs
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby jbabs » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:23 am

Trojan228 wrote:Yeah I am pretty sure you can do a lot of things with a law degree with a sports emphasis, although it may not be necessary? You could be an agent, or be a part of an athletic program's legal team or even an athletic director. I dont know why you think that you cannot practice sports law, its a highly relevant field. Or have you not seen the various NFL / NBA lockouts this year? Pretty sure there are tons of lawyers working to 'fix' problems such as that. Iowa is my top choice, but I do think 'sports law' is relevant.

How does applying employment/labor law to a sports team make someone even remotely qualified to be an agent or an athletic director? If that's really what someone wanted to do, then dropping $$$ on a JD seems like a poor choice, as does picking a school on the basis of an obscure specialty rather than its broader reputation and overall career prospects.

Is sports law a thing? Yes, but the odds you'll ever practice it make the lottery look a sure thing.

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typ3
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby typ3 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:43 am

jbabs wrote:
Trojan228 wrote:Yeah I am pretty sure you can do a lot of things with a law degree with a sports emphasis, although it may not be necessary? You could be an agent, or be a part of an athletic program's legal team or even an athletic director. I dont know why you think that you cannot practice sports law, its a highly relevant field. Or have you not seen the various NFL / NBA lockouts this year? Pretty sure there are tons of lawyers working to 'fix' problems such as that. Iowa is my top choice, but I do think 'sports law' is relevant.

How does applying employment/labor law to a sports team make someone even remotely qualified to be an agent or an athletic director? If that's really what someone wanted to do, then dropping $$$ on a JD seems like a poor choice, as does picking a school on the basis of an obscure specialty rather than its broader reputation and overall career prospects.

Is sports law a thing? Yes, but the odds you'll ever practice it make the lottery look a sure thing.


+1

Same for people who go to places for Space and Telecommunication Law / International Law / Film Law etc. It's straight up heaping cash down the drain.

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traehekat
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby traehekat » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:59 am

Opie wrote:Other than IP and and evidence, I had planned on all of those. What are the benefits of IP and evidence?


Of all the classes listed, Evidence is probably the most important (some schools actually require you to take it). If you are going to be doing anything involving litigation at any level, you need to take evidence. It's more useful than probably any other substantive class you will take, aside from maybe Civil Procedure. Plus it's going to be on the bar, so probably good to have some background in it.

Intellectual Property is just a good area to have some background in, I think, even if you don't plan on going into IP. Some of these classes are more "required" than others depending on what you want to do, admittedly. Like if you want to work with a firm that does a lot of commercial litigation/transactions then you should definitely take Business Associations and probably a few classes like Securities Regulation, Corporate Finance, etc. If you want to go into prosecution, Criminal Procedure, Constitutional Law II, and Evidence are likely more important. If you want to clerk then take Federal Courts, Administrative Law probably, and basically any other substantive and/or difficult classes.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:48 am

Stupid question (and I hope I don't get torn apart for asking it). Do most people know exactly what they want to do when they go into law school? I feel terrified because I don't know exactly what field I want to practice in. I initially became interested in law because of civil liberties, but I've come to terms that it isn't a very viable field. Am I normal to enter law school without having a solid idea which area I want to practice in or am the exception?

sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:53 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Stupid question (and I hope I don't get torn apart for asking it). Do most people know exactly what they want to do when they go into law school? I feel terrified because I don't know exactly what field I want to practice in. I initially became interested in law because of civil liberties, but I've come to terms that it isn't a very viable field. Am I normal to enter law school without having a solid idea which area I want to practice in or am the exception?


You're normal. Barring some special experience/exposure to law prior to entering law school, it would be inexcusably presumptuous to think you know what kind of law you want to practice as a 0L.

sebastian0622
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby sebastian0622 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:58 am

Trojan228 wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:
Trojan228 wrote:So I did a self guided tour of Boyd over the past week. (I plan to do a real one when I can). I would have to say my impression of the school dropped somewhat once I saw the inside of the building. It was just unimpressive, but obviously there is much more to choosing a law school than the facilities.

It is somewhat like wearing nice clothes, though. When you dress up, you act differently; more professional maybe. Then when I got accepted to Marquette this week, I learned how fantastic their facilities are (brand new building), and the fact that they have a sports law specialty is pretty interesting to me. Well my question is this:

Would I really be stupid to go to a tier 2 (Marquette) over Iowa, if accepted at both. I wont be receiving any scholarship money from Iowa, but expect a substantial amount from Marquette, so the cost could either be equal or less to go to Milwaukee. I notice that their average salary out of school is substantially lower, and I am also interested in the JD / MBA route to an extent, knowing that Tippie is fantastic but not discounting that Marquette has a strong business program also.

What a tough decision I'll have to make. I am visiting Marquette hopefully in January; but Boyd didn't impress me to say the least, and UIowa has always done a terrible job of selling itself to me. That being said, their ranking is much stronger. Maybe someone can tell me what Iowa has to offer that justifies its #26 ranking, that would be helpful.

Oh yeah and GO HAWKS.... beat Nebraska!


You're not going to practice sports law, so take that out of your decision-making process and go from there.


Yeah I am pretty sure you can do a lot of things with a law degree with a sports emphasis, although it may not be necessary? You could be an agent, or be a part of an athletic program's legal team or even an athletic director. I dont know why you think that you cannot practice sports law, its a highly relevant field. Or have you not seen the various NFL / NBA lockouts this year? Pretty sure there are tons of lawyers working to 'fix' problems such as that. Iowa is my top choice, but I do think 'sports law' is relevant.


1) How many of those people went to Marquette? How many went to Iowa?
2) Does practicing labor law for a sports organization really mean you are practicing "sports" law? Wouldn't you be better off studying anti-trust at Iowa under Hovenkamp and hoping to get an RA with him?
3) Do you realize you don't need a J.D. for several of those positions?
etc. etc.

I suppose we shouldn't derail this thread into a discussion of sports law; I'd recommend just searching for it on TLS. But even IF you think you're going to practice sports law (which is very unlikely), you certainly shouldn't pick a law school over some difference in reputation that is vague to define and probably irrelevant. After all, most sports law practitioners probably went to Columbia like David Stern or somewhere else out East, not either Iowa or Marquette.

ionoiforgot
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby ionoiforgot » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:43 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Stupid question (and I hope I don't get torn apart for asking it). Do most people know exactly what they want to do when they go into law school? I feel terrified because I don't know exactly what field I want to practice in. I initially became interested in law because of civil liberties, but I've come to terms that it isn't a very viable field. Am I normal to enter law school without having a solid idea which area I want to practice in or am the exception?


As long as you're willing to:

1. study hard in law school
2. know the risks going in in terms of employment figures and salary
3. realize the socializing aspect of law

you'll be in excellent shape.

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Trojan228
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Trojan228 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:58 am

There seemed to be a focus on the fact that I said "Marquette has a sports law emphasis that is interesting to me" rather than answer my real question. I agree that it may not be necessary to practice in that field, and furthermore I have no idea what I want to practice yet; so there is really no need to try and convince me one way or another about the issue. So....

What do you like about Iowa law?

It would be nice to hear from current students about what they enjoy and what they would change, if given the chance

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:42 am

traehekat wrote:
Opie wrote:Other than IP and and evidence, I had planned on all of those. What are the benefits of IP and evidence?


Of all the classes listed, Evidence is probably the most important (some schools actually require you to take it). If you are going to be doing anything involving litigation at any level, you need to take evidence. It's more useful than probably any other substantive class you will take, aside from maybe Civil Procedure. Plus it's going to be on the bar, so probably good to have some background in it.

Intellectual Property is just a good area to have some background in, I think, even if you don't plan on going into IP. Some of these classes are more "required" than others depending on what you want to do, admittedly. Like if you want to work with a firm that does a lot of commercial litigation/transactions then you should definitely take Business Associations and probably a few classes like Securities Regulation, Corporate Finance, etc. If you want to go into prosecution, Criminal Procedure, Constitutional Law II, and Evidence are likely more important. If you want to clerk then take Federal Courts, Administrative Law probably, and basically any other substantive and/or difficult classes.


I had no idea that evidence was so important! I figured it was more for people going down the criminal path. Now I definitely plan on taking it. My primary interests are employment discrimination, wrongful termination, and unemployment compensation. Obviously Ad Law is going to be important and I'll need to take employment; but since this is a field that can't ignore litigation, I can see Evidence being important.

IP probably won't be important to my preferred path, but you have to diversify ITE, and you never know if you'll change your mind about what interests you. What better field to diversify in to than one of the few fields that is growing?

I also want to take antitrust with Hovenkamp(see IP, plus I really want to study with him), Family Law (want to understand my own divorce/custody situation better and if I ever end up in solo practice this will be nice), and Wills/Estates/Trusts (diversification, nice for solo practice, want this skill for personal use, currently work for and insurance company and have to deal with this stuff).

ETA: also, how many courses does one get to take? I know you take five substantive courses each semester including a Spring elective, but how many do you take second and third year? Also, how do seminars affect this? I've never gone to school in a big university setting, so seminars have never been available and my largest class ever has been like 30 people.

DportIA
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby DportIA » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:07 am

Hey guys, so I saw the admitted student and decided to check my status checker and 'lo was I not accepted on the 23rd also. No e-mail either. My name is the same on LSN.

This is awesome, I love my home state, want to live/work/play in Iowa after being in Texas for four years. I was actually at the Nebraska Iowa game yesterday, too bad the Hawks couldn't make me proud.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:39 am

DportIA wrote:Hey guys, so I saw the admitted student and decided to check my status checker and 'lo was I not accepted on the 23rd also. No e-mail either. My name is the same on LSN.

This is awesome, I love my home state, want to live/work/play in Iowa after being in Texas for four years. I was actually at the Nebraska Iowa game yesterday, too bad the Hawks couldn't make me proud.


Yeah, that game sucked. Welcome to the thread though!

Is your account verified on LSN? I couldn't find you.

ETA: Just found you. It says you were accepted. I'm confused.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:44 am

Opie wrote:
DportIA wrote:Hey guys, so I saw the admitted student and decided to check my status checker and 'lo was I not accepted on the 23rd also. No e-mail either. My name is the same on LSN.

This is awesome, I love my home state, want to live/work/play in Iowa after being in Texas for four years. I was actually at the Nebraska Iowa game yesterday, too bad the Hawks couldn't make me proud.


Yeah, that game sucked. Welcome to the thread though!

Is your account verified on LSN? I couldn't find you.

ETA: Just found you. It says you were accepted. I'm confused.


Maybe I read this wrong. Now I'm thinking you're saying you were suprised to see that you also got accepted. RC fail on my part. Congrats! Do you mind sharing your LSAT score?

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:00 pm

Hey guys, so I saw the admitted student and decided to check my status checker and 'lo was I not accepted on the 23rd also. No e-mail either. My name is the same on LSN.

This is awesome, I love my home state, want to live/work/play in Iowa after being in Texas for four years. I was actually at the Nebraska Iowa game yesterday, too bad the Hawks couldn't make me proud.


Huh? It sounds like you're telling us you were accepted, but the comment confuses me.

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Opie
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:08 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I saw the admitted student and decided to check my status checker and 'lo was I not accepted on the 23rd also. No e-mail either. My name is the same on LSN.

This is awesome, I love my home state, want to live/work/play in Iowa after being in Texas for four years. I was actually at the Nebraska Iowa game yesterday, too bad the Hawks couldn't make me proud.


Huh? It sounds like you're telling us you were accepted, but the comment confuses me.


I'm going with accepted. It's a weird phrasing though. LSN says accepted. No LSAT, but 3.5 and URM. That sounds like an accept as long as the LSAT is okay.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:16 pm

What is up with these random acceptances? I got the impression that schools would send them out in big batches that decreased in size as the year went on. Lol are they just going to admit one person per day? And no emails or actual mail?

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Trojan228
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby Trojan228 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:32 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:What is up with these random acceptances? I got the impression that schools would send them out in big batches that decreased in size as the year went on. Lol are they just going to admit one person per day? And no emails or actual mail?


I think the actual mail will come after the status checker acceptance, according to the info I have in one of the emails. I'm with you on this, now that people are getting accepted, I am fiending - checking every couple hours haha

DportIA
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby DportIA » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:19 pm

Hey sorry for the confusion. I was accepted on the 23rd, and ironically I was accepted to Nebraska on the 22nd (I spent my Thanksgiving in Lincoln with Husker and Hawkeue family).

My LSAT is 162, 3.55 GPA. I've been having trouble with my LSN account, it doesn't save chsnges I make to my dates/statuses with other schools. But anyways, my app was in day 1, 3 lors, strong Iowa component to essay, and sincere diversity statement. Pretty standard. Good luck everyone. I hope the very early admission is a positive indicator for a consideration for a LOF.

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chrisbru
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Re: IOWA 2012

Postby chrisbru » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:44 pm

Trojan228 wrote:Would I really be stupid to go to a tier 2 (Marquette) over Iowa, if accepted at both. I wont be receiving any scholarship money from Iowa, but expect a substantial amount from Marquette, so the cost could either be equal or less to go to Milwaukee. I notice that their average salary out of school is substantially lower, and I am also interested in the JD / MBA route to an extent, knowing that Tippie is fantastic but not discounting that Marquette has a strong business program also.

What a tough decision I'll have to make. I am visiting Marquette hopefully in January; but Boyd didn't impress me to say the least, and UIowa has always done a terrible job of selling itself to me. That being said, their ranking is much stronger. Maybe someone can tell me what Iowa has to offer that justifies its #26 ranking, that would be helpful.

Oh yeah and GO HAWKS.... beat Nebraska!



Yes. Unless the money is a substantial factor and you want to practice in Milwaukee. Marquette flip-flops between very low tier 2 and tier 3 for a reason. Also, JD/MBA is a weird route that you really have no reason to go for. Very few people do. Can I ask what you think you need the MBA for? Otherwise it's just an extra year of no salary and spending tuition money for very little benefit, if any.

What is better about Iowa that justifies? Just a few...
*Much better faculty
*Better employment placement (especially OUTSIDE the home market... Not many people from Marquette get jobs outside Wisconsin)
*Reputation with employers
*Reputation with peers
*Library is better
*WE HAVE FOOTBALL




ETA:
IOWA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nebraska
Except in football. :(




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