IOWA 2012 Forum

[ilovehalusky]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

[shredderrrrrr]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

I'm of the thinking that if you finish outside of top 35%, you're going to be in trouble anyways outside of losing your scholarship (in regards to job prospects). Obviously 65% find themselves in this situation and some do just fine, but I don't know if I'd consider spending two more years of my life taking that risk even if I did have a scholarship. My thought is that in order to be successful you should be in the top 35% regardless of scholarships. If you can't manage that, either drop out or work your tail off making up for it. For those like me that would choose the former option (dropping out), the stipulations aren't a major concern.

With that said, in any circumstance, guaranteed money > money with strings attached.

[ilovehalusky]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

I'm of the thinking that if you finish outside of top 35%, you're going to be in trouble anyways outside of losing your scholarship (in regards to job prospects). Obviously 65% find themselves in this situation and some do just fine, but I don't know if I'd consider spending two more years of my life taking that risk even if I did have a scholarship. My thought is that in order to be successful you should be in the top 35% regardless of scholarships. If you can't manage that, either drop out or work your tail off making up for it. For those like me that would choose the former option (dropping out), the stipulations aren't a major concern.

With that said, in any circumstance, guaranteed money > money with strings attached.

+1

[typ3]

In case anyone is interested, Iowa seems unwilling to negotiate scholarship stipulations. I tried and heard back within an hour, which made it seem like they won't even consider it.

Good to know. I'm debating whether or not to ask. I figure that, like you said, there is no chance, but I don't see the harm if I plan on going elsewhere if the stipulations remain.

It doesn't hurt to try. One of my classmates successfully negotiated away the top 1/3 requirement. He was on a half-ride scholarship. I haven't heard of any other similar stories though.

So just to post something non-scholarship related, does anyone know whether Iowa honors CCW permits? I know my undergrad school did. Just checkin

No, according to my roommate. He carries everywhere possible (bar, biking, grocery store, etc.) and he won't go near the law school while carrying.

You cannot negotiate away the stipulations on a full ride OOS as far as I know of. You're either handed the 1/3 or not for those. I'm not sure about in state but I imagine it's a similar deal.

[typ3]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

I'm of the thinking that if you finish outside of top 35%, you're going to be in trouble anyways outside of losing your scholarship (in regards to job prospects). Obviously 65% find themselves in this situation and some do just fine, but I don't know if I'd consider spending two more years of my life taking that risk even if I did have a scholarship. My thought is that in order to be successful you should be in the top 35% regardless of scholarships. If you can't manage that, either drop out or work your tail off making up for it. For those like me that would choose the former option (dropping out), the stipulations aren't a major concern.

With that said, in any circumstance, guaranteed money > money with strings attached.

There is a lot more that plays into job prospects than just your class rank. Prior WE, your undergraduate major e.g. (hard sciences like engineering / biology / chemistry going into patent / ip are swept up pretty quickly regardless of rank because there are so few of these people in law school and in the profession), your people skills, involvement on journals (Iowa is write on for law review) that play into getting a job. I'm sure there are some people in the top 1/3rd with terrible social skills and no WE that are struggling to find a job. I know there are classmates at median and below that have secured summer positions simply because they know how to network / interview etc. There are certainly classmates I expected to be at the top of the class who weren't and some others who I expected at the bottom who were near the top. I wouldn't assume that more studying = better grades. It all comes down to how well you can write for the exam and how well you study.

Speaking for my own experience and echoing what Chris said earlier in the thread, I don't spend a lot of time studying during the week or daily for classes. I spend maybe an hour per day, per class the day I have that class-- and that's being generous. Every time I am called on for Socratic I am on Facebook / TLS / reading the news etc. and just not paying attention in general. I hardly commit any details of the cases to memory. I imagine as a result I look like a complete dolt to my classmates. All I remember is the black letter law from each case (all you really need to know) and how to apply it. I did quite well on my first semester exams so I plan on sticking to my strategy second semester and unless my grades are different second semester I see no reason to change my approach to law school in the next two years. I think Chris nailed it in what he said. Get or make a good outline and then spend your time leading up to finals doing barbri / E&E's / Hypos and applying the law and you'll be golden.

Back to your earlier point though, being a good lawyer does not equate with having good law school grades. I mean hell you can plagiarize in law school and graduate near the bottom of your class and 76/85 and become vice president. Unfortunately, bad grades will bar you from a job at a big law firm. Yet if you're a rainmaker know how to hustle, manage clients, and bring in business why would you want to work at a big law firm apart from prestige? You'd be better off working at a boutique firm where you eat what you kill instead of feeding other mouths. From my experience, the attorneys who make upper six and seven figures in Iowa and the Midwest aren't at big law firms. They are all at small firms to mid firms or working as a solo practitioner (in civil litigation). Big law is nice and you will make six figures but you're more likely than not going to be making as much as you could with other options. Just my opinion.

[typ3]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

FWIW it was said by someone during orientation that 25% of scholarship students lose their scholarships their first year. I am going to assume that because class rankings do not change as much 2nd year and even less so 3L year, 1/3 of scholarship students lose their scholarships OVER THE 3 YEARS not after first year.

[shredderrrrrr]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

I'm of the thinking that if you finish outside of top 35%, you're going to be in trouble anyways outside of losing your scholarship (in regards to job prospects). Obviously 65% find themselves in this situation and some do just fine, but I don't know if I'd consider spending two more years of my life taking that risk even if I did have a scholarship. My thought is that in order to be successful you should be in the top 35% regardless of scholarships. If you can't manage that, either drop out or work your tail off making up for it. For those like me that would choose the former option (dropping out), the stipulations aren't a major concern.

With that said, in any circumstance, guaranteed money > money with strings attached.

There is a lot more that plays into job prospects than just your class rank. Prior WE, your undergraduate major e.g. (hard sciences like engineering / biology / chemistry going into patent / ip are swept up pretty quickly regardless of rank because there are so few of these people in law school and in the profession), your people skills, involvement on journals (Iowa is write on for law review) that play into getting a job. I'm sure there are some people in the top 1/3rd with terrible social skills and no WE that are struggling to find a job. I know there are classmates at median and below that have secured summer positions simply because they know how to network / interview etc. There are certainly classmates I expected to be at the top of the class who weren't and some others who I expected at the bottom who were near the top. I wouldn't assume that more studying = better grades. It all comes down to how well you can write for the exam and how well you study.

Speaking for my own experience and echoing what Chris said earlier in the thread, I don't spend a lot of time studying during the week or daily for classes. I spend maybe an hour per day, per class the day I have that class-- and that's being generous. Every time I am called on for Socratic I am on Facebook / TLS / reading the news etc. and just not paying attention in general. I hardly commit any details of the cases to memory. I imagine as a result I look like a complete dolt to my classmates. All I remember is the black letter law from each case (all you really need to know) and how to apply it. I did quite well on my first semester exams so I plan on sticking to my strategy second semester and unless my grades are different second semester I see no reason to change my approach to law school in the next two years. I think Chris nailed it in what he said. Get or make a good outline and then spend your time leading up to finals doing barbri / E&E's / Hypos and applying the law and you'll be golden.

Back to your earlier point though, being a good lawyer does not equate with having good law school grades. I mean hell you can plagiarize in law school and graduate near the bottom of your class and 76/85 and become vice president. Unfortunately, bad grades will bar you from a job at a big law firm. Yet if you're a rainmaker know how to hustle, manage clients, and bring in business why would you want to work at a big law firm apart from prestige? You'd be better off working at a boutique firm where you eat what you kill instead of feeding other mouths. From my experience, the attorneys who make upper six and seven figures in Iowa and the Midwest aren't at big law firms. They are all at small firms to mid firms or working as a solo practitioner (in civil litigation). Big law is nice and you will make six figures but you're more likely than not going to be making as much as you could with other options. Just my opinion.

Just to be clear, I never claimed the bolded part (just in case that was directed at me).

This is very helpful though! I appreciate the tips. I'm really going to be interested to actually experience the law school structure.

Unfortunately for me, your argument for why class rank isn't the only important factor only strengthens my initial belief. Lol I have no substantial prior WE, UG majors are useless (Sociology, Philosophy, and Criminology), and average/sub-par people skills. Unless I get on a journal, it looks like I better get good grades!

[typ3]

This might help those of you looking into getting the stipulations removed: I was told that appx. 1/3 of students lose their scholarships after the first year. My guess is that if you are a responsible student and are good about studying and don't normally struggle with school stuff, this isn't something you need to worry about. Just saying.

I'm of the thinking that if you finish outside of top 35%, you're going to be in trouble anyways outside of losing your scholarship (in regards to job prospects). Obviously 65% find themselves in this situation and some do just fine, but I don't know if I'd consider spending two more years of my life taking that risk even if I did have a scholarship. My thought is that in order to be successful you should be in the top 35% regardless of scholarships. If you can't manage that, either drop out or work your tail off making up for it. For those like me that would choose the former option (dropping out), the stipulations aren't a major concern.

With that said, in any circumstance, guaranteed money > money with strings attached.

There is a lot more that plays into job prospects than just your class rank. Prior WE, your undergraduate major e.g. (hard sciences like engineering / biology / chemistry going into patent / ip are swept up pretty quickly regardless of rank because there are so few of these people in law school and in the profession), your people skills, involvement on journals (Iowa is write on for law review) that play into getting a job. I'm sure there are some people in the top 1/3rd with terrible social skills and no WE that are struggling to find a job. I know there are classmates at median and below that have secured summer positions simply because they know how to network / interview etc. There are certainly classmates I expected to be at the top of the class who weren't and some others who I expected at the bottom who were near the top. I wouldn't assume that more studying = better grades. It all comes down to how well you can write for the exam and how well you study.

Speaking for my own experience and echoing what Chris said earlier in the thread, I don't spend a lot of time studying during the week or daily for classes. I spend maybe an hour per day, per class the day I have that class-- and that's being generous. Every time I am called on for Socratic I am on Facebook / TLS / reading the news etc. and just not paying attention in general. I hardly commit any details of the cases to memory. I imagine as a result I look like a complete dolt to my classmates. All I remember is the black letter law from each case (all you really need to know) and how to apply it. I did quite well on my first semester exams so I plan on sticking to my strategy second semester and unless my grades are different second semester I see no reason to change my approach to law school in the next two years. I think Chris nailed it in what he said. Get or make a good outline and then spend your time leading up to finals doing barbri / E&E's / Hypos and applying the law and you'll be golden.

Back to your earlier point though, being a good lawyer does not equate with having good law school grades. I mean hell you can plagiarize in law school and graduate near the bottom of your class and 76/85 and become vice president. Unfortunately, bad grades will bar you from a job at a big law firm. Yet if you're a rainmaker know how to hustle, manage clients, and bring in business why would you want to work at a big law firm apart from prestige? You'd be better off working at a boutique firm where you eat what you kill instead of feeding other mouths. From my experience, the attorneys who make upper six and seven figures in Iowa and the Midwest aren't at big law firms. They are all at small firms to mid firms or working as a solo practitioner (in civil litigation). Big law is nice and you will make six figures but you're more likely than not going to be making as much as you could with other options. Just my opinion.

Just to be clear, I never claimed the bolded part (just in case that was directed at me).

This is very helpful though! I appreciate the tips. I'm really going to be interested to actually experience the law school structure.

Unfortunately for me, your argument for why class rank isn't the only important factor only strengthens my initial belief. Lol I have no substantial prior WE, UG majors are useless (Sociology, Philosophy, and Criminology), and average/sub-par people skills. Unless I get on a journal, it looks like I better get good grades!

I just bolded it to clarify for people so they would notice the nuance in the language between what I said and what you had said.

I believe it would behoove you to spend some time building skills that would make you desirable for a law firm to hire you for a summer position and then work to make yourself indispensable to them. I would check in your local court or jurisdiction. I know the city I am from the local courthouse holds workshops and trainings on how to do electronic filings / file motions / petitions / etc. The chapter of the local bar holds seminars on doing trust accounting, advertising, etc. There is a lot you can offer a firm to do for the summer apart from doing just 'legal work'. To be honest, because you are so limited while in law school by the ABA (you cannot offer legal advice etc) you are likely to be doing a lot of random projects and assignments that won't be "lawyering" and may not even have to do with clients but they are necessary for the firm to function. Learning how to do these things would go a long way for securing a summer position since firms wouldn't have to spend as much time training you and you would be able to do things from day one. I'm sure a 2L or 3L can chime in with their experiences since I am not really the person to ask on this subject.

One thing that I believe law students and the school has dropped the ball on is training people on how to use file and client managing systems-- specifically those that are SaaS. Given the trends the last 4 years at the ABA trade show and from the lawyers I have talked to a lot of firms are looking to get more up to date with digitization (cloud management systems / document imaging / etc.) If you have any experience and technical know how for computing you could make yourself stand out by learning practical skills in how to use or implement these systems.

Blah still feel like I'm beating a dead horse. Getting a job is all about proving to the employer that you can create value to them. Put simply, find more ways you can help your employer and their business and you'll be more desirable to them.

[ilovehalusky]

I was just sayin' that losing a scholarship isn't something you should be too scared of and shouldn't be the reason you turn down an amazing offer

I agree 100% with the job thing

[Opie]

I try to remember that sticker at Iowa is like a 50% scholly anywhere else if you're in-state. Couple that with full-tuition for even just the first year and that's pretty cheap for law school.

[ilovehalusky]

I try to remember that sticker at Iowa is like a 50% scholly anywhere else if you're in-state. Couple that with full-tuition for even just the first year and that's pretty cheap for law school.

+1
Plus the RA positions are great if you are OOS

[checkster]

I'd pay in-state in a heartbeat if I was from Iowa.

...but I'm still really glad to be south of the border...

[typ3]

You pay instate your 2 and 3L years if you get an RA position, 10 hours a week 150hours a semester or serve as an exec on one of the journals or co-curricular programs. So even if you lose your scholarship you'll be paying 2 years in state rate which isn't bad at all.

[Opie]

You pay instate your 2 and 3L years if you get an RA position, 10 hours a week 150hours a semester or serve as an exec on one of the journals or co-curricular programs. So even if you lose your scholarship you'll be paying 2 years in state rate which isn't bad at all.

Plus I think you still make minimum wage for the RA positions, so that's an extra $70 a week in your pocket.

[typ3]

You pay instate your 2 and 3L years if you get an RA position, 10 hours a week 150hours a semester or serve as an exec on one of the journals or co-curricular programs. So even if you lose your scholarship you'll be paying 2 years in state rate which isn't bad at all.

Plus I think you still make minimum wage for the RA positions, so that's an extra $70 a week in your pocket.

Yep. But for OOS full rides they calculate the amount you would make into paying for their tuition so you work the RA position and keep 0.

[chrisbru]

Unfortunately for me, your argument for why class rank isn't the only important factor only strengthens my initial belief. Lol I have no substantial prior WE, UG majors are useless (Sociology, Philosophy, and Criminology), and average/sub-par people skills. Unless I get on a journal, it looks like I better get good grades!

I don't want to sound like a dick but... Fuck, you sure you want to go to law school right now? This is quite a claim, and basically says "Hey, I'm only gonna get a job if a firm blindly offers those with good grades without looking at anything else" and that just doesn't happen. You could work for a few years, figure out how to network and further your people skills, then come to law school.

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

[chrisbru]

So just to post something non-scholarship related, does anyone know whether Iowa honors CCW permits? I know my undergrad school did. Just checkin

Also, a couple questions about housing and computers. The Emerald Court apts. are $665/month no internet included, everything else pretty standard for 2 bedrooms. Is this a pretty good price for a married student.

What is a normal price to pay for a law school laptop? The dell website with the school discount was going to be about $1200-1400

$665 is pretty standard for a 2 bed/1 bath. I know a few people that live in Emerald Court.

If you're going to spend that much on a PC, get a MacBook Air or Pro. They will last you a lot longer and give you less hassle overall.

However, all you need a laptop for in school is word processing, internet, email, and examsoft for finals, which is a stripped down word processing software. It will run just fine on ANY computer that you can buy new. So if you want to save some money, go for it. My roommate uses a netbook he got for like $400. As long as you have sufficient RAM (1gb or more) and enough hard drive space to save everything, you're fine.

I try to remember that sticker at Iowa is like a 50% scholly anywhere else if you're in-state. Couple that with full-tuition for even just the first year and that's pretty cheap for law school.

I was just sayin' that losing a scholarship isn't something you should be too scared of and shouldn't be the reason you turn down an amazing offer

I agree 100% with the job thing

These two comments are spot on. In-state or OOS with RA position is really manageable around $24k. And as halusky said, taking a risk on being the 75% of the first year class that keeps their scholarship is a MUCH better risk than law school is in general.

[typ3]

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

This. You will probably never meet more nerds in one place than law school.. unless you go to grad school in physics or to med school.

If you are really one that is worried they won't get a job unless their grades are top 10% my suggestion to you is go get a job doing sales this summer. Even when you're a lawyer you're going to have to pitch yourself to your clients and you will need to keep them once you get them.

[nickjive]

You will probably never meet more nerds in one place than law school.. unless you go to grad school in physics or to med school.

I was a band geek, so I hope that counts.

[chrisbru]

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

This. You will probably never meet more nerds in one place than law school.. unless you go to grad school in physics or to med school.

Or regularly hang out with those guys from The Big Bang Theory.

[typ3]

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

This. You will probably never meet more nerds in one place than law school.. unless you go to grad school in physics or to med school.

Or regularly hang out with those guys from The Big Bang Theory.

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that when you graduate and are in big law or mid law or small law alike, if you're not a rainmaker and paying for your keep you are expendable to a firm. Learn to hustle to get business sooner rather than later you're going to be expected to do it when you graduate anyway.

[shredderrrrrr]

Unfortunately for me, your argument for why class rank isn't the only important factor only strengthens my initial belief. Lol I have no substantial prior WE, UG majors are useless (Sociology, Philosophy, and Criminology), and average/sub-par people skills. Unless I get on a journal, it looks like I better get good grades!

I don't want to sound like a dick but... Fuck, you sure you want to go to law school right now? This is quite a claim, and basically says "Hey, I'm only gonna get a job if a firm blindly offers those with good grades without looking at anything else" and that just doesn't happen. You could work for a few years, figure out how to network and further your people skills, then come to law school.

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

Lol I can always leave it to you to get all hot and bothered. I'm just trying to be honest about my strengths and weaknesses. I'm not going to go in thinking "I've got a job made!" I lack skills in some areas and subsequently need to make up for them other places. And when I say I don't have excellent people skills, I just mean that I'm not the most memorable person. I can interview well and am a friendly person, I just wasn't blessed with an engaging and dynamic personality. Taking a few years off won't change the personality I have lol.

I know it'll be tough to get a job. Hence why I refuse to pay even just 50k for my education.

[ilovehalusky]

You pay instate your 2 and 3L years if you get an RA position, 10 hours a week 150hours a semester or serve as an exec on one of the journals or co-curricular programs. So even if you lose your scholarship you'll be paying 2 years in state rate which isn't bad at all.

Plus I think you still make minimum wage for the RA positions, so that's an extra $70 a week in your pocket.

Yep. But for OOS full rides they calculate the amount you would make into paying for their tuition so you work the RA position and keep 0.

But for OOS your spouse also gets in-state tuition and you both get healthcare discounts which helps a whole crapton.

[ilovehalusky]

So just to post something non-scholarship related, does anyone know whether Iowa honors CCW permits? I know my undergrad school did. Just checkin

Also, a couple questions about housing and computers. The Emerald Court apts. are $665/month no internet included, everything else pretty standard for 2 bedrooms. Is this a pretty good price for a married student.

What is a normal price to pay for a law school laptop? The dell website with the school discount was going to be about $1200-1400

$665 is pretty standard for a 2 bed/1 bath. I know a few people that live in Emerald Court.

If you're going to spend that much on a PC, get a MacBook Air or Pro. They will last you a lot longer and give you less hassle overall.

However, all you need a laptop for in school is word processing, internet, email, and examsoft for finals, which is a stripped down word processing software. It will run just fine on ANY computer that you can buy new. So if you want to save some money, go for it. My roommate uses a netbook he got for like $400. As long as you have sufficient RAM (1gb or more) and enough hard drive space to save everything, you're fine.

Thanks for this. I will probably just use my current netbook for a while then, the screen size just drives me crazy but it's definitely not worth the cost of getting a new one if my current one will suffice.

[ilovehalusky]

Unfortunately for me, your argument for why class rank isn't the only important factor only strengthens my initial belief. Lol I have no substantial prior WE, UG majors are useless (Sociology, Philosophy, and Criminology), and average/sub-par people skills. Unless I get on a journal, it looks like I better get good grades!

I don't want to sound like a dick but... Fuck, you sure you want to go to law school right now? This is quite a claim, and basically says "Hey, I'm only gonna get a job if a firm blindly offers those with good grades without looking at anything else" and that just doesn't happen. You could work for a few years, figure out how to network and further your people skills, then come to law school.

That being said, maybe your people skills aren't average/sub-par as you think. I thought my people skills were pretty average until I came to law school and realize that, actually, they are quite good in comparison.

Lol I can always leave it to you to get all hot and bothered. I'm just trying to be honest about my strengths and weaknesses. I'm not going to go in thinking "I've got a job made!" I lack skills in some areas and subsequently need to make up for them other places. And when I say I don't have excellent people skills, I just mean that I'm not the most memorable person. I can interview well and am a friendly person, I just wasn't blessed with an engaging and dynamic personality. Taking a few years off won't change the personality I have lol.

I know it'll be tough to get a job. Hence why I refuse to pay even just 50k for my education.

Shredderrrr, I think we are somewhat alike regarding this. I don't think it's going to be as bad as you think though, as long as you can fake it. Even basic sales/customer service jobs can show you whether you can interact. If you can be courteous, make eye contact, etc. you can probably get by just fine as long as you know what you are doing.