fundamentallybroken wrote: flem wrote: Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Before I add my two cents, a little about me.
I almost went to DU on a full ride last year, but they wouldn't tell me their detailed employment numbers when I asked for them. I felt that this was a bad sign, so I didn't attend. Full disclosure: I now attend CU.
I've never heard the conventional wisdom about DU having an edge over CU in the Denver firm market, because that would be akin to saying that DU>CU for private employment as Denver is the only
firm market in CO. I don't think the numbers bear this out, but really, the best info to give an 0L about either school must focus on the fact that there are way too many lawyers in CO. Saying CU has an edge in this and DU an edge in that is just missing the point.
Employment info on the two schools in 2009-- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681
CU - 30% over 60k or Art. III clerks
DU - 6% over 55k or Art. III clerks
I could say CU>DU, but lets face it both of these numbers are really, really bad. From a purely financial standpoint, both of these schools are currently very poor decisions. So why draw distinctions? If you are called to be an attorney and you are ok being broke your whole life (assuming you will want to have a family, own a home, etc.) and relying on LRAP or IBR, then either one of these schools will provide you with a great education and a super network in CO. If you are independently wealthy and want a JD, go for it, either school is respected in CO. If not... Maybe don't go to either school. I fall into one of the two categories above, but I have classmates who do not. I speak for them and I am only trying to help. Good luck.
This scares the ever-living fuck out of me.
Fundamentallybroken, any input on the job market now?
I only have anecdotes, and can only really respond to McDuff's post by saying that those were 2009 numbers, in the midst of ITE, and things seem to be picking up at least a little bit.
As an example, and hopefully a sign of things to come, in 2010 there weren't really any paying jobs in Denver for 1L summers. Now there are at least 2 firms hiring 3 to 4 1Ls for this summer, plus 3 or 4 companies hiring for in-house (paid) gigs over the summer for 1Ls. Aside from the paying jobs, there seems to be a lot of my friends easily picking up externships at firms, small practices, and different courts.
That's not to say things are rosy and carefree yet, but there is certainly less of a doom-and-gloom feeling than one would get from looking at 2009 numbers. Of course, there is also a self-selection problem: I'm top 5-10% (official rankings don't come out until summer), and most of the people I'm friends with are comfortably above median, so the ease at which I see people getting work for the summers (and the 2Ls and 3Ls I know with offers for after school) is based solely on my circle of friends. Those at or below median very well may sing a different tune...
I looked at the 2010 numbers and you may be right. They look better, which is good news.
DU 2010 (from DU website) 17.5% cleared 53k or had an Art. III Clerk.
CU's job website is really shady and I can't tell how bad it is for 2010, but from everything we've heard it has gotten worse, not better. Maybe they just had an odd class, but I think CU's numbers are going to shock people when then are posted by USNEWS here in about a month.
Still, my advice is the same. Horrible numbers. Do something else unless you "have" to be an attorney. I mean, DU's numbers went through the roof, and now, the situation is currently: spend 40k a year, plus living, plus lost revenue (opportunity costs) for three years and if you are lucky and beat out 4/5 of your classmates, you can get a job that pays 53k a year. Even if you win, you lose. Same from CU. If you are broke and are planning to go to law school and rake up debt because you think you need to "spend money to make money," or something cheesy and similar, you are really playing law school roulette. Odds are better from a mathematically standpoint of loaning money from Montel and putting it on an actual roulette spin in Vegas. Only come here if you think you can rely on LRAP or IBR to make a starting salary of 45k a year work for you and your family.
Congrats to fundamentallybroken. You are in the top 5%.. top 5% from DU opens up lots of interviews for 100k+ a year jobs. But realize you won the law school lottery, and statistically speaking 90% of those that come after you have to