2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015 Forum
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
At the open house on Friday, they said decisions will be sent out next week.
- flem
- Posts: 12882
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Some thoughts and impressions for those still interested who couldn't attend the ASD on Friday. I want to be up front that I went into this weekend with extreme skepticism.
Open House Thoughts
1) The campus is situated about 5 miles south of Denver, in its own little area. The campus is gorgeous and has the Rockies as the backdrop. The law building is nice. There doesn't seem to be a ton to do immediately by campus. Washington Park is a really cool neighborhood pretty close to the campus which seems to have a more grown-up feel, which is where I'd want to live if I attended.
2) Denver is a cool town. Very bike and pedestrian friendly. The light rail seems to be the preferred method of transportation. Parking downtown around the bar district is a bitch.
3) The faculty was enormously helpful, friendly, and normal. Everyone I talked to was very personable.
4) The dean talked about 90-95% employed at graduation (which, of course, was met with extreme skepticism by me). He also mentioned that due to all of the bad press, the law suits, etc, they were currently having an independent party audit their statistics. He said that detailed employment data for the classes of 2010 I was able to talk to him one on one. He said that so far, the majority is full time, bar passage required employment (whether that is 51% of 90% was unclear). He also said to keep in mind with the amount corporations, sports franchises, etc, many graduates go on to do contract negotiations and the like which is considered "JD preferred" employment. This is anecdotal but I personally know of a couple people who have done this, so it doesn't seem to be way off the mark.
5) There was a student presentation by a dude from the class of 2010, who found a job as a 3L in this economy not through OCI. He was working for a boutique law firm that does eminent domain and water law. He said that he was still in a law clerk/SA type position while he was learning the ropes but was promised to be added as an associate when he had the experience. He was still making mid 60's.
6) The same dude from class of 2010 gave a presentation on a handful of his classmates. All but one were doing well in either bar-required or JD preferred employment. The other guy was working for the Cato institute and mentioned he always had a passion for libertarian politics and policy so this may have been self selection.
7) I asked the dude on the class rank of himself and his classmates. He said he was slightly below median, others were around the same area. I was expecting them to roll out some rockstar top 5% type dude who landed a job at H&H or something. The honesty of the selection of the student to present and the job picture was refreshing.
8 ) During a Q&A session, some guy asked the dean about prospects because he was "primarily interested in international law". The dean mentioned that there were opportunities in agriculture, mining, etc that are performed by international firms, but said verbatim "If you want to work for the World Bank, DU is not the right choice". Once again, refreshing honesty.
9) There didn't appear to be a bunch of smoke and mirrors around salary and job prospects and everything. Starting salaries were in line with what was expected of a school in this territory. The dean gave some facts and figures about how the current economy in Colorado is and the amount of entry-level attorney openings there were, which to me seemed optimistic. Of course, he was ONLY counting the classes graduating from CU/DU, not counting people from T14 schools that want to target the area, etc. It seemed a bit rosy, but encouraging.
10) There was a current student panel that featured a fairly diverse cross section of people. There was a non-traditional part timer 3L, a 3L who had gone the trial/DA route, a 2L, and a 1L. All had positive things to say about their experience and job outlook. They had all found summer employment/internships relatively easily.
11) By the students' and faculty's own admission, DU loses a step in terms of reputation to CU, which should be a surprise to no one. However, they put an emphasis on DU's advantages above CU, which is location and networking opportunities as well as producing practice-ready attorneys (more on this in a second).
12) DU puts a HUGE emphasis on producing practice ready attorneys. They want you to leave the school not with just a bunch of philosophy, but with a way to really apply what you learned. This was reiterated by professors, the dean, alumni and current students.
RE: choosing between CU and DU
13) My girlfriend and I went to some bar in Cherry Creek, where we coincidentally were sitting next to a practicing attorney who overheard our conversation. Even more coincidentally, he was a CU grad and a FORMER DU professor. He reiterated all of what I took away from the open house. He also reiterated the benefits and drawbacks of CU and DU, but mentioned that they were both very well respected schools and you'd be fine going to either one if you wanted to be in the area.
14) They both have benefits and drawbacks. It's not like one school is Harvard and the other is some random TTT. They're both reputable, well-respected schools in the area. There was also discussion and emphasis on DU's strong alumni network and loyalty to their graduates. Another alumni mentioned that many firms will evenly split their hires between DU and CU grads. I really walked away feeling like graduating from CU or DU was really a very marginal difference and you'd be fine out of either one.
15) I think preference of location has more to do with it than anything else. Boulder is a super weird place for anyone not familiar. It embodies every hippie stereotype imaginable. I actually really like Boulder, but I like Denver more. Boulder is not for everyone. Denver has more wide living appeal. Boulder is prettier. Denver has more shit to do. It's a toss up. Your call.
16) The bottom line between the two schools is location preference and cost of attendance. CU has more lay prestige, DU has a location advantage (as mentioned). If you're looking at sticker at CU and scholarship at DU, DU is the better choice. If cost of attendance was equal, pick where you want to be (unless location advantage of lay prestige is the deciding factor). If you want to practice in Colorado and are not a biglaw or bust type, either one of these schools is going to provide you with excellent opportunities in the immediate area.
TL;DR:
--ImageRemoved--
Open House Thoughts
1) The campus is situated about 5 miles south of Denver, in its own little area. The campus is gorgeous and has the Rockies as the backdrop. The law building is nice. There doesn't seem to be a ton to do immediately by campus. Washington Park is a really cool neighborhood pretty close to the campus which seems to have a more grown-up feel, which is where I'd want to live if I attended.
2) Denver is a cool town. Very bike and pedestrian friendly. The light rail seems to be the preferred method of transportation. Parking downtown around the bar district is a bitch.
3) The faculty was enormously helpful, friendly, and normal. Everyone I talked to was very personable.
4) The dean talked about 90-95% employed at graduation (which, of course, was met with extreme skepticism by me). He also mentioned that due to all of the bad press, the law suits, etc, they were currently having an independent party audit their statistics. He said that detailed employment data for the classes of 2010 I was able to talk to him one on one. He said that so far, the majority is full time, bar passage required employment (whether that is 51% of 90% was unclear). He also said to keep in mind with the amount corporations, sports franchises, etc, many graduates go on to do contract negotiations and the like which is considered "JD preferred" employment. This is anecdotal but I personally know of a couple people who have done this, so it doesn't seem to be way off the mark.
5) There was a student presentation by a dude from the class of 2010, who found a job as a 3L in this economy not through OCI. He was working for a boutique law firm that does eminent domain and water law. He said that he was still in a law clerk/SA type position while he was learning the ropes but was promised to be added as an associate when he had the experience. He was still making mid 60's.
6) The same dude from class of 2010 gave a presentation on a handful of his classmates. All but one were doing well in either bar-required or JD preferred employment. The other guy was working for the Cato institute and mentioned he always had a passion for libertarian politics and policy so this may have been self selection.
7) I asked the dude on the class rank of himself and his classmates. He said he was slightly below median, others were around the same area. I was expecting them to roll out some rockstar top 5% type dude who landed a job at H&H or something. The honesty of the selection of the student to present and the job picture was refreshing.
8 ) During a Q&A session, some guy asked the dean about prospects because he was "primarily interested in international law". The dean mentioned that there were opportunities in agriculture, mining, etc that are performed by international firms, but said verbatim "If you want to work for the World Bank, DU is not the right choice". Once again, refreshing honesty.
9) There didn't appear to be a bunch of smoke and mirrors around salary and job prospects and everything. Starting salaries were in line with what was expected of a school in this territory. The dean gave some facts and figures about how the current economy in Colorado is and the amount of entry-level attorney openings there were, which to me seemed optimistic. Of course, he was ONLY counting the classes graduating from CU/DU, not counting people from T14 schools that want to target the area, etc. It seemed a bit rosy, but encouraging.
10) There was a current student panel that featured a fairly diverse cross section of people. There was a non-traditional part timer 3L, a 3L who had gone the trial/DA route, a 2L, and a 1L. All had positive things to say about their experience and job outlook. They had all found summer employment/internships relatively easily.
11) By the students' and faculty's own admission, DU loses a step in terms of reputation to CU, which should be a surprise to no one. However, they put an emphasis on DU's advantages above CU, which is location and networking opportunities as well as producing practice-ready attorneys (more on this in a second).
12) DU puts a HUGE emphasis on producing practice ready attorneys. They want you to leave the school not with just a bunch of philosophy, but with a way to really apply what you learned. This was reiterated by professors, the dean, alumni and current students.
RE: choosing between CU and DU
13) My girlfriend and I went to some bar in Cherry Creek, where we coincidentally were sitting next to a practicing attorney who overheard our conversation. Even more coincidentally, he was a CU grad and a FORMER DU professor. He reiterated all of what I took away from the open house. He also reiterated the benefits and drawbacks of CU and DU, but mentioned that they were both very well respected schools and you'd be fine going to either one if you wanted to be in the area.
14) They both have benefits and drawbacks. It's not like one school is Harvard and the other is some random TTT. They're both reputable, well-respected schools in the area. There was also discussion and emphasis on DU's strong alumni network and loyalty to their graduates. Another alumni mentioned that many firms will evenly split their hires between DU and CU grads. I really walked away feeling like graduating from CU or DU was really a very marginal difference and you'd be fine out of either one.
15) I think preference of location has more to do with it than anything else. Boulder is a super weird place for anyone not familiar. It embodies every hippie stereotype imaginable. I actually really like Boulder, but I like Denver more. Boulder is not for everyone. Denver has more wide living appeal. Boulder is prettier. Denver has more shit to do. It's a toss up. Your call.
16) The bottom line between the two schools is location preference and cost of attendance. CU has more lay prestige, DU has a location advantage (as mentioned). If you're looking at sticker at CU and scholarship at DU, DU is the better choice. If cost of attendance was equal, pick where you want to be (unless location advantage of lay prestige is the deciding factor). If you want to practice in Colorado and are not a biglaw or bust type, either one of these schools is going to provide you with excellent opportunities in the immediate area.
TL;DR:
--ImageRemoved--
- flem
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
I also forgot to mention I got some information on scholarship questions we were wondering.
1) Scholarships are offered to about 35% of incoming students.
2) The 3.0 stip is slightly below median but roughly top 50%
3) 75 - 80% of students retain their scholarships year to year
4) Of that percentage, most end up being in the top third
5) If you fall below a 3.0, you have a semester to work to pull back up
6) Sections are assigned by a separate office which has no knowledge of who has a scholarship and who does not, therefore there is no section stacking
As far as scholarship stipulations go, these people are pretty reasonable. I hope this info is helpful to everyone.
1) Scholarships are offered to about 35% of incoming students.
2) The 3.0 stip is slightly below median but roughly top 50%
3) 75 - 80% of students retain their scholarships year to year
4) Of that percentage, most end up being in the top third
5) If you fall below a 3.0, you have a semester to work to pull back up
6) Sections are assigned by a separate office which has no knowledge of who has a scholarship and who does not, therefore there is no section stacking
As far as scholarship stipulations go, these people are pretty reasonable. I hope this info is helpful to everyone.
- R86
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Visiting DU this coming Monday... Can't wait! I feel im down between two schools right now and DU and SLU are really neck and neck... Hopefully an on-campus review will make the flight back easy on the brain.
Cheers for all the information!
Cheers for all the information!
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Was anything mentioned at the open house about finding roommates? I am really trying to get the ball rolling on my housing situation and would like to room with someone to cut costs. They apparently had a group on Facebook in the past, but it no longer exists (to my knowledge).
- zapcaz
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:21 pm
Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
So my status checker updated with 2 mailings today (I am already accepted)... anyone else? Could it be Chancellor Scholarship notification???
- Sherlock1708
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Is anyone else still waiting... for their application to be reviewed??? I applied on 2/3 and my status is still complete. My numbers aren't great, but on LSN, everyone with my LSAT score has been accepted. I was waitlisted at Boulder and I'm surprised I haven't heard from Denver
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Sherlock1708-
My application went complete/ready for review on 3/13...alot later than yours but I haven't heard back yet either. I am expecting to get denied, my numbers are horrible, but I still want the final decision. I have read posts from previous years and it seemed like the turnaround was alot faster, even for applicants that applied this late in the game.
My application went complete/ready for review on 3/13...alot later than yours but I haven't heard back yet either. I am expecting to get denied, my numbers are horrible, but I still want the final decision. I have read posts from previous years and it seemed like the turnaround was alot faster, even for applicants that applied this late in the game.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
If we haven't heard anything by now is it likely we will be denied? I can't imagine there are many seats left and there is probably zero $$$ left.
- BarcaCrossesTheAlps
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- Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 11:43 am
Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
I've been stuck on "Ready for Review" since 3/2.
If I get in, I doubt there will be any money. Seems real late in the game to get any skin out of it! Denver was one of my top choices, too. Mostly for place and university dynamic than employment prospects, etc. But, still. I just love DU!!!
C'mon, Denver! Accept me and throw some money my way....!
If I get in, I doubt there will be any money. Seems real late in the game to get any skin out of it! Denver was one of my top choices, too. Mostly for place and university dynamic than employment prospects, etc. But, still. I just love DU!!!
C'mon, Denver! Accept me and throw some money my way....!
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Scubasteve1315 wrote:At the open house on Friday, they said decisions will be sent out next week.
I hope so!
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
For those still waiting to hear about the Chancellor's Scholarship, I was awarded it on 29 Mar. So thrilled to have been selected! FWIW, I'm a Peace Corps Volunteer with 2 yrs WE.
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- Mayhem19
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Thank you very much for summing all this up. I attended the Open House as well, but hearing it in your summarized way has definitely helped me with my decision (between CU and DU!). You basically said everything I was thinking, so it really backed up my gut feeling well. I'm leaning DU, and you might expect a post to the effect of "Committed to DU!" fairly soon. Thanks again, man.tfleming09 wrote:I also forgot to mention I got some information on scholarship questions we were wondering.
1) Scholarships are offered to about 35% of incoming students.
2) The 3.0 stip is slightly below median but roughly top 50%
3) 75 - 80% of students retain their scholarships year to year
4) Of that percentage, most end up being in the top third
5) If you fall below a 3.0, you have a semester to work to pull back up
6) Sections are assigned by a separate office which has no knowledge of who has a scholarship and who does not, therefore there is no section stacking
As far as scholarship stipulations go, these people are pretty reasonable. I hope this info is helpful to everyone.
- Mayhem19
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:40 am
Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Also, hopefully I can give a little extra insight into the Boulder/Denver dynamic for those wondering what each city is like.
Denver:
1. DU is "in the city," but it's actually about 10-15 min from downtown Denver, so it's in a sort of residential area. That is, it is very close to the bustle, the sports arenas/stadiums, the downtown bar scene, etc. (as mentioned previously, yes parking can be bad downtown, unless you know the secret free spots and follow the street sweep schedule), but it is removed as well, in a quiet area of town that is definitely comfortable.
2. Area: There really is lots to do in the immediate Denver area. Wash Park is a huge weekend spot for 20-somethings to early 30s. Lots of volleyball. DU also has its own bar scenes other than downtown. Right around DU there are a number of bars, but Wash Park also has some near it as well (Gaylord St.). There are a couple other parks, you can be in the mountains in 20 minutes, etc. Lots of things to do.
3. Housing: As they mentioned at the Open House, students live all over Denver. Some live in Aurora (a Denver suburb about 20 min east), some near downtown (Highlands, Capitol Hill), but many nearer to school (Washington Park, University Hills...). They all have their benefits, but I would say Wash Park is the best balance between distance and price. Aurora is cheaper, but further. Highlands is expensive AND further than Wash Park. But a great neighborhood for 20-somethings near downtown.
Boulder:
1. CU Law is right in the heart of a massive undergraduate institution, and within the slightly larger Boulder, packed with all sorts of people. The school is on a hill in the center of town, but Boulder is smaller than Denver and it is easy to get out of town quick if you need to. Yes, there are hippies that live here or go to undergrad. There might be a couple in the law school too. But for the most part Boulder is quite diverse culturally. Outdoors types, athletes, families, musicians, etc. It makes for a very active scene where you can find just about anything you want. Do you want tea straight from Tajikistan? Hit up the Dushanbe tea house: http://www.boulderteahouse.com/. The stuff to do is endless.
2. Area: Also lots to do around Boulder. You can be in the mountains in under 2 minutes, up among the flatirons or heading up to RMNP or ski areas nearby. Concerts happen all the time at Boulder Theater and the Fox. Float the Boulder Creek some time in an inner tube.
3. Distance: The two schools fought over this by proxy at their Open Houses, but I tend to agree with CU: despite Boulder's distance from the main law market (Denver), it is easier than people think to get to Denver if you have some sort of internship, etc. down there while at CU. It really isn't that far from Denver, even if you don't have a car and take the bus.
4. Housing: Pretty much everything in Boulder will be (1) close to campus and on a bus line and (2) fairly expensive. But like Denver, there are also close options just out of town, a little further from campus, that is cheaper. Louisville, Superior, Westminster (if you must), and some others: they are all (except Superior) between Boulder and Denver, are cheaper than Boulder, and have reliable bus lines into Boulder (and okay ones into Denver.)
The airport is about equal distance from both schools.
Just some random thoughts as I weight them in my head too. Hope it helps somebody out there.
Denver:
1. DU is "in the city," but it's actually about 10-15 min from downtown Denver, so it's in a sort of residential area. That is, it is very close to the bustle, the sports arenas/stadiums, the downtown bar scene, etc. (as mentioned previously, yes parking can be bad downtown, unless you know the secret free spots and follow the street sweep schedule), but it is removed as well, in a quiet area of town that is definitely comfortable.
2. Area: There really is lots to do in the immediate Denver area. Wash Park is a huge weekend spot for 20-somethings to early 30s. Lots of volleyball. DU also has its own bar scenes other than downtown. Right around DU there are a number of bars, but Wash Park also has some near it as well (Gaylord St.). There are a couple other parks, you can be in the mountains in 20 minutes, etc. Lots of things to do.
3. Housing: As they mentioned at the Open House, students live all over Denver. Some live in Aurora (a Denver suburb about 20 min east), some near downtown (Highlands, Capitol Hill), but many nearer to school (Washington Park, University Hills...). They all have their benefits, but I would say Wash Park is the best balance between distance and price. Aurora is cheaper, but further. Highlands is expensive AND further than Wash Park. But a great neighborhood for 20-somethings near downtown.
Boulder:
1. CU Law is right in the heart of a massive undergraduate institution, and within the slightly larger Boulder, packed with all sorts of people. The school is on a hill in the center of town, but Boulder is smaller than Denver and it is easy to get out of town quick if you need to. Yes, there are hippies that live here or go to undergrad. There might be a couple in the law school too. But for the most part Boulder is quite diverse culturally. Outdoors types, athletes, families, musicians, etc. It makes for a very active scene where you can find just about anything you want. Do you want tea straight from Tajikistan? Hit up the Dushanbe tea house: http://www.boulderteahouse.com/. The stuff to do is endless.
2. Area: Also lots to do around Boulder. You can be in the mountains in under 2 minutes, up among the flatirons or heading up to RMNP or ski areas nearby. Concerts happen all the time at Boulder Theater and the Fox. Float the Boulder Creek some time in an inner tube.
3. Distance: The two schools fought over this by proxy at their Open Houses, but I tend to agree with CU: despite Boulder's distance from the main law market (Denver), it is easier than people think to get to Denver if you have some sort of internship, etc. down there while at CU. It really isn't that far from Denver, even if you don't have a car and take the bus.
4. Housing: Pretty much everything in Boulder will be (1) close to campus and on a bus line and (2) fairly expensive. But like Denver, there are also close options just out of town, a little further from campus, that is cheaper. Louisville, Superior, Westminster (if you must), and some others: they are all (except Superior) between Boulder and Denver, are cheaper than Boulder, and have reliable bus lines into Boulder (and okay ones into Denver.)
The airport is about equal distance from both schools.
Just some random thoughts as I weight them in my head too. Hope it helps somebody out there.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Agree with this overall, except that CU Law is actually at the very south end of campus. It is an area that has one of the nicest views of the flatirons, and it is not around any undergrads--in fact, would have to walk out of your way to find them. When I visited DU, I noticed it was right in the middle of campus. In fact, there is a fraternity house about 30 yards from the front door.Mayhem19 wrote:Also, hopefully I can give a little extra insight into the Boulder/Denver dynamic for those wondering what each city is like.
Denver:
1. DU is "in the city," but it's actually about 10-15 min from downtown Denver, so it's in a sort of residential area. That is, it is very close to the bustle, the sports arenas/stadiums, the downtown bar scene, etc. (as mentioned previously, yes parking can be bad downtown, unless you know the secret free spots and follow the street sweep schedule), but it is removed as well, in a quiet area of town that is definitely comfortable.
2. Area: There really is lots to do in the immediate Denver area. Wash Park is a huge weekend spot for 20-somethings to early 30s. Lots of volleyball. DU also has its own bar scenes other than downtown. Right around DU there are a number of bars, but Wash Park also has some near it as well (Gaylord St.). There are a couple other parks, you can be in the mountains in 20 minutes, etc. Lots of things to do.
3. Housing: As they mentioned at the Open House, students live all over Denver. Some live in Aurora (a Denver suburb about 20 min east), some near downtown (Highlands, Capitol Hill), but many nearer to school (Washington Park, University Hills...). They all have their benefits, but I would say Wash Park is the best balance between distance and price. Aurora is cheaper, but further. Highlands is expensive AND further than Wash Park. But a great neighborhood for 20-somethings near downtown.
Boulder:
1. CU Law is right in the heart of a massive undergraduate institution, and within the slightly larger Boulder, packed with all sorts of people. The school is on a hill in the center of town, but Boulder is smaller than Denver and it is easy to get out of town quick if you need to. Yes, there are hippies that live here or go to undergrad. There might be a couple in the law school too. But for the most part Boulder is quite diverse culturally. Outdoors types, athletes, families, musicians, etc. It makes for a very active scene where you can find just about anything you want. Do you want tea straight from Tajikistan? Hit up the Dushanbe tea house: http://www.boulderteahouse.com/. The stuff to do is endless.
2. Area: Also lots to do around Boulder. You can be in the mountains in under 2 minutes, up among the flatirons or heading up to RMNP or ski areas nearby. Concerts happen all the time at Boulder Theater and the Fox. Float the Boulder Creek some time in an inner tube.
3. Distance: The two schools fought over this by proxy at their Open Houses, but I tend to agree with CU: despite Boulder's distance from the main law market (Denver), it is easier than people think to get to Denver if you have some sort of internship, etc. down there while at CU. It really isn't that far from Denver, even if you don't have a car and take the bus.
4. Housing: Pretty much everything in Boulder will be (1) close to campus and on a bus line and (2) fairly expensive. But like Denver, there are also close options just out of town, a little further from campus, that is cheaper. Louisville, Superior, Westminster (if you must), and some others: they are all (except Superior) between Boulder and Denver, are cheaper than Boulder, and have reliable bus lines into Boulder (and okay ones into Denver.)
The airport is about equal distance from both schools.
Just some random thoughts as I weight them in my head too. Hope it helps somebody out there.
I completely agree on the "there are hippies, but the town is really diverse." I think most people here realize that the hippie stereotype is inaccurate. I would also caution that if you just come up here for ASD and you visit both campuses, realize what a small sample you are getting. I'd also advise that no matter what school you chose, you will convince yourself that it's location is superior to the other school's location, even though both locations are objectively awesome.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
I've never really had a problem parking in Denver, or really with the traffic in general. I do pay to park, but then it is usually a two minute stroll to where I'm going.tfleming09 wrote: 2) Denver is a cool town. Very bike and pedestrian friendly. The light rail seems to be the preferred method of transportation. Parking downtown around the bar district is a bitch.
This is true, and I think it is great that they do this.tfleming09 wrote:12) DU puts a HUGE emphasis on producing practice ready attorneys. They want you to leave the school not with just a bunch of philosophy, but with a way to really apply what you learned. This was reiterated by professors, the dean, alumni and current students.
As someone who has lived her for more than a day, I'm going to have to completely disagree with you here. Boulder is very rich and nice--not "weird." As fas as the hippie stereotype, I agree with the last poster: Boulder is diverse, and you won't even notice hippies unless you've driven to Boulder for the exact purpose of seeing hippies. 30% of the residents do have advanced degrees, and polling has consistently shown that people with advanced degrees tend to be more progressive than conservative, but this doesn't make boulder "super weird" or an "embodiment of every hippie stereotype imaginable." This makes Boulder, like Cherry Creek in Denver, privilaged. Further, Boulder county contains the #1 town in America according to CNN Money, Louisville, where I actually live and commute the 12 minutes to the law school from. There is an ad on the CU Law Facebook page offering a cottage that sits on a farm up for a summer let. The student who lives there is going to the city to work as a SA, and his/her "cottage" is supposedly only 13 minutes from the door of the law school. Point is, there are lots of options and it is very hard to (correctly) stereotype Boulder.tfleming09 wrote:15) I think preference of location has more to do with it than anything else. Boulder is a super weird place for anyone not familiar. It embodies every hippie stereotype imaginable.
Any honest account of the differences must warn students of the pitfalls of being at the bottom of the class at DU. With CU, because it is so much harder to get into, even below median grades are looked at with a certain level of respect. This doesn't make CU better for every applicant, it just makes DU more of a gamble; I think an honest account of the differences must speak to that gamble.tfleming09 wrote:16) The bottom line between the two schools is location preference and cost of attendance.
Actually DU may have more lay prestige (lay prestige often follows undergrad prestige, where DU is more selective), but CU has a significantly better reputation among judges/lawyers in Colorado. However, this is likely because DU has admitted too many students in the past, not because you can't get a fine education out of DU. I'd imagine that many of these same judges and lawyers wouldn't look at a candidate at the top of his class at CU with more favor than a candidate at the top of his class at DU.tfleming09 wrote: CU has more lay prestige, DU has a location advantage
FWIW, I do attend CU Law but looking back I maybe should have gone to DU and saved a bunch of money. I am near the top of the class here and have a big law SA coming up, but I really feel like I would have maybe made even slightly better grades at DU and had the same job opportunities, at least in Denver. Don't wanna be too harsh on the DU vibe here, but want people to have a picture from someone in the area. Basically, if you go to DU and want to be an attorney, gun and make good grades. The market here sucks and there isn't much room for the bottom half at DU. That said, good grades from DU are very respected, and in that regard I think the comparisons between DU and CU are pretty accurate. Assuming good grades, I guess then you could say the decision comes down to location preferences and cost of attendance. GL.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Thanks for giving a good insider's perspective to this Du v CU debate. I am still trying to make my final decision between the two. DU is looking more and more appealing because of cost mostly. I am from here and location may be another advantage for DU for me. I have nothing against Boulder. I just love Denver.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
Yeah I was in Denver for the opening day baseball game. Denver is super. DU is right for a lot of people and they have been great with scholarships recently. Also they are the only law school in the state with a part-time program, which is a must for professionals.Scubasteve1315 wrote:Thanks for giving a good insider's perspective to this Du v CU debate. I am still trying to make my final decision between the two. DU is looking more and more appealing because of cost mostly. I am from here and location may be another advantage for DU for me. I have nothing against Boulder. I just love Denver.
- fundamentallybroken
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
For those interested, DU just released their class of 2011 employment stats:
http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/career- ... ss-of-2011
http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/career- ... ss-of-2011
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
As per-http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/career- ... ss-of-2011
I'm actually going to give this a B+ for honesty because of the breakdown of full-time long term JD required AND the firm size breakdown, but two things are horribly misleading:
1. Pulled right off their site:
Salary Information
(Based on full time salaries that were reported or publicly available)
All Reported Salaries (based on 112 known salaries):
Mean $79,922
Median $57,500
75th Percentile $88,625
25th Percentile $49,000
Range $30,000 – $350,000
Read carefully-- how many salaries is this info based on? We actually have no idea. Everything on this page has to literally true, so you have to take the two sentences in parenthesis together. In other words, of the 112 total salaries, we are posting the information based on those that were employed full-time, which is a number that we aren't going to list. They did they same thing last year and I think this is super tricky-- I had to call their career service office to get them to confirm that the "full-time clause" was modifying the "known salaries" clause. Now, you might be thinking, " who would report a salary if they worked part-time, and how would they even do that?" It actually happens-- grads report their expected earnings from part-time employment, and some have even admitted to multiplying their hourly wage in order to project what it would be given full-time hours. No way to know the correlation here because DU doesn't provide it.
2.
Total percentage of employed graduates 96.6%**
** Note: We calculate the percentage of graduates employed 9 months after graduation by dividing the total number of graduates employed in any capacity (legal, nonlegal, full time and part time) by the total number of graduates whose employment status is known. Graduates not seeking employment (including those with deferred offers) and those pursuing full time degrees are not included in the calculation. We recognize that other organizations use different formulas to determine law school employment rates; however, we believe our formula most accurately reflects the employment rate of our graduates known to be in the workforce.
No way they really believe the last part either. It is "Law School" and only 48.8% of this class held full time legal jobs, aka actual attorney positions, by their own indirect admission-- 140 full-time JD required / 287 total students. So yeah, 96.6% is super duper accurate.
Thoughts:
Why are they incredibly transparent in some areas and misleading in others? So weird. I really hope when CU releases that they take a page out of DU's book on the firm breakdown, which was lacking last time around. Both schools are pretty misleading (this page is like wut -- --LinkRemoved--). I hope they both continue to improve, though.
I'm actually going to give this a B+ for honesty because of the breakdown of full-time long term JD required AND the firm size breakdown, but two things are horribly misleading:
1. Pulled right off their site:
Salary Information
(Based on full time salaries that were reported or publicly available)
All Reported Salaries (based on 112 known salaries):
Mean $79,922
Median $57,500
75th Percentile $88,625
25th Percentile $49,000
Range $30,000 – $350,000
Read carefully-- how many salaries is this info based on? We actually have no idea. Everything on this page has to literally true, so you have to take the two sentences in parenthesis together. In other words, of the 112 total salaries, we are posting the information based on those that were employed full-time, which is a number that we aren't going to list. They did they same thing last year and I think this is super tricky-- I had to call their career service office to get them to confirm that the "full-time clause" was modifying the "known salaries" clause. Now, you might be thinking, " who would report a salary if they worked part-time, and how would they even do that?" It actually happens-- grads report their expected earnings from part-time employment, and some have even admitted to multiplying their hourly wage in order to project what it would be given full-time hours. No way to know the correlation here because DU doesn't provide it.
2.
Total percentage of employed graduates 96.6%**
** Note: We calculate the percentage of graduates employed 9 months after graduation by dividing the total number of graduates employed in any capacity (legal, nonlegal, full time and part time) by the total number of graduates whose employment status is known. Graduates not seeking employment (including those with deferred offers) and those pursuing full time degrees are not included in the calculation. We recognize that other organizations use different formulas to determine law school employment rates; however, we believe our formula most accurately reflects the employment rate of our graduates known to be in the workforce.
No way they really believe the last part either. It is "Law School" and only 48.8% of this class held full time legal jobs, aka actual attorney positions, by their own indirect admission-- 140 full-time JD required / 287 total students. So yeah, 96.6% is super duper accurate.
Thoughts:
Why are they incredibly transparent in some areas and misleading in others? So weird. I really hope when CU releases that they take a page out of DU's book on the firm breakdown, which was lacking last time around. Both schools are pretty misleading (this page is like wut -- --LinkRemoved--). I hope they both continue to improve, though.
Last edited by Lord Randolph McDuff on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- fundamentallybroken
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
I found the same things kinda fishy - but I'm actually in class right now, and couldn't elaborate!
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
They pointed out that it is "not typical to make $350,000" out of law school. I was really counting on it.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
The school gains a little more credibility in my eyes for saying something like that. I mean, yeah, it's fairly obvious that $350k out of law school is extremely atypical, but at least it shows that DU isn't trying to deceive prospective students into thinking something like that is normal. Believe it or not, some people are just really naive.Scubasteve1315 wrote:They pointed out that it is "not typical to make $350,000" out of law school. I was really counting on it.
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Re: 2011-2012 Cycle: University of Denver c/o 2015
I am with you that it is great of them to add something like that. I did find it slightly funny at the same time though.
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