WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby tmon » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:50 pm

cch24 wrote:Is anybody considering BU and WUSTL? My scholarships were equals and I really like Boston. But maybe that Midwest OCI thread is freaking me out... Just wondering if anybody else was considering these schools? I've pretty much narrowed my acceptances down to Texas, Gerogetown, BU, and WUSTL. (maybe even in that order...)

If you really want the midwest I can see that being a tough decision, but if you want either the east coast or south then you should probably go with GTown/Texas accordingly. Unless you're looking for PI, I guess.

Oftranch
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Oftranch » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm

Ubermaus wrote:
mr_wjc_11 wrote:To those wondering about getting a decision soon, I visited the school a few weeks ago and they basically told me that unless you are an obvious admit or reject, you should not expect to hear back until after March 1. Since I fall in the middle of their typical numbers, I assume I will be waiting a few more weeks.

Ah, thank you. *takes a deep breath, backs away from the status checker*



.... Glad to see I'm not the only one feeling left out...

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cch24
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby cch24 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:56 pm

tmon wrote:
cch24 wrote:Is anybody considering BU and WUSTL? My scholarships were equals and I really like Boston. But maybe that Midwest OCI thread is freaking me out... Just wondering if anybody else was considering these schools? I've pretty much narrowed my acceptances down to Texas, Gerogetown, BU, and WUSTL. (maybe even in that order...)

If you really want the midwest I can see that being a tough decision, but if you want either the east coast or south then you should probably go with GTown/Texas accordingly. Unless you're looking for PI, I guess.


Thanks! That's really what I was thinking. I'm from the midwest and really would love to go "home" but I'm more than willing to relocate to the south or the east coast, in fact, I'd probably prefer it. Even though I'm far from having made a decision, it's nice to start narrowing down the field.

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6thbackstreetboy
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby 6thbackstreetboy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 am

josh43299 wrote:
STLMizzou wrote:Is there an accepted students FB group or something?


There should be. Does someone more FB savvy than I wish to make one?

I would, but I don't know if I can handle the pressure. I guess I can though if no one else wants to volunteer. I'm soooo into WUSTL right now, and I need a Facebook page…

fakemoney
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby fakemoney » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:36 am

Give in to the urgencu
6thbackstreetboy wrote:
josh43299 wrote:
STLMizzou wrote:Is there an accepted students FB group or something?


There should be. Does someone more FB savvy than I wish to make one?

I would, but I don't know if I can handle the pressure. I guess I can though if no one else wants to volunteer. I'm soooo into WUSTL right now, and I need a Facebook page…


Feel the urgency of now.. Do it!

STLMizzou
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby STLMizzou » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:47 am

fakemoney wrote:Give in to the urgencu
6thbackstreetboy wrote:
josh43299 wrote:
STLMizzou wrote:Is there an accepted students FB group or something?


There should be. Does someone more FB savvy than I wish to make one?

I would, but I don't know if I can handle the pressure. I guess I can though if no one else wants to volunteer. I'm soooo into WUSTL right now, and I need a Facebook page…


Feel the urgency of now.. Do it!

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Opie
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Opie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:01 am

tmon wrote:
cch24 wrote:Is anybody considering BU and WUSTL? My scholarships were equals and I really like Boston. But maybe that Midwest OCI thread is freaking me out... Just wondering if anybody else was considering these schools? I've pretty much narrowed my acceptances down to Texas, Gerogetown, BU, and WUSTL. (maybe even in that order...)

If you really want the midwest I can see that being a tough decision, but if you want either the east coast or south then you should probably go with GTown/Texas accordingly. Unless you're looking for PI, I guess.


Be sure you are considering where your ties are and where you want to practice. Going to BU isn't a strong enough tie to get employment in Boston for the most part from what I've heard, and it's probably not going to get you that far in NYC. If you're not from New England, I wouldn't do BU. Also, Texas is way insular. If you have no ties to TX, don't plan on practicing there. UT will still get you a job in other parts of the South though. GULC and Washington are probably your better bets from the limited info I know about you.

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martorem
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby martorem » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:14 am

Opie wrote:
tmon wrote:
cch24 wrote:Is anybody considering BU and WUSTL? My scholarships were equals and I really like Boston. But maybe that Midwest OCI thread is freaking me out... Just wondering if anybody else was considering these schools? I've pretty much narrowed my acceptances down to Texas, Gerogetown, BU, and WUSTL. (maybe even in that order...)

If you really want the midwest I can see that being a tough decision, but if you want either the east coast or south then you should probably go with GTown/Texas accordingly. Unless you're looking for PI, I guess.


Be sure you are considering where your ties are and where you want to practice. Going to BU isn't a strong enough tie to get employment in Boston for the most part from what I've heard, and it's probably not going to get you that far in NYC. If you're not from New England, I wouldn't do BU. Also, Texas is way insular. If you have no ties to TX, don't plan on practicing there. UT will still get you a job in other parts of the South though. GULC and Washington are probably your better bets from the limited info I know about you.


Where are you hearing this? They put 30% in the NLJ 250, compared to 19% at WUSTL. Also, as someone working at one of those firms in Boston, the majority of our new hires and younger associates come from BC, BU, Northeastern, Suffolk, and UNH (IP only). Granted, that's purely anecdotal, but to say that BU students don't have ties in Boston is absurd. Also:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

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cch24
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby cch24 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:42 pm

martorem wrote:
Opie wrote:
tmon wrote:
cch24 wrote:Is anybody considering BU and WUSTL? My scholarships were equals and I really like Boston. But maybe that Midwest OCI thread is freaking me out... Just wondering if anybody else was considering these schools? I've pretty much narrowed my acceptances down to Texas, Gerogetown, BU, and WUSTL. (maybe even in that order...)

If you really want the midwest I can see that being a tough decision, but if you want either the east coast or south then you should probably go with GTown/Texas accordingly. Unless you're looking for PI, I guess.


Be sure you are considering where your ties are and where you want to practice. Going to BU isn't a strong enough tie to get employment in Boston for the most part from what I've heard, and it's probably not going to get you that far in NYC. If you're not from New England, I wouldn't do BU. Also, Texas is way insular. If you have no ties to TX, don't plan on practicing there. UT will still get you a job in other parts of the South though. GULC and Washington are probably your better bets from the limited info I know about you.


Where are you hearing this? They put 30% in the NLJ 250, compared to 19% at WUSTL. Also, as someone working at one of those firms in Boston, the majority of our new hires and younger associates come from BC, BU, Northeastern, Suffolk, and UNH (IP only). Granted, that's purely anecdotal, but to say that BU students don't have ties in Boston is absurd. Also:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1


Thank you for all the extra consideration! I have to agree that BU's placement is much stronger than WUSTL, and the fact that they have a homebase and a strong alumni network seems to help. I've also been in contact with several people from my undergrad who are at UT now (2L) and they all have summer associate positions in Texas, and some are splitting between Texas and their home area. Only one of the people I spoke with has any tie to Texas other than going to UT, and that particular person told me he was above median but not in the top 1/3. While all of it is comforting, nothing is for sure, so in the end I'll try to pick the school that offers me the best opportunities and scholarship.

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby tmon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:08 pm

martorem wrote:Where are you hearing this? They put 30% in the NLJ 250, compared to 19% at WUSTL. Also, as someone working at one of those firms in Boston, the majority of our new hires and younger associates come from BC, BU, Northeastern, Suffolk, and UNH (IP only). Granted, that's purely anecdotal, but to say that BU students don't have ties in Boston is absurd. Also:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

I think the point was not that BU/BC students get hired in Boston. That's obvious. From what I've read Boston seems like an insular market where people who have ties to the area from before law school are at an advantage.

cch, If you have ties to TX or the south and would be happy working there I think Texas is a really solid choice. The markets that they place into seem to be doing much better than Chicago/the Midwest and Boston. Unless you're looking to absolutely minimize your debt because you want to do public interest, TX or GTown are probably your best bets.

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martorem
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby martorem » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:25 pm

tmon wrote:
martorem wrote:Where are you hearing this? They put 30% in the NLJ 250, compared to 19% at WUSTL. Also, as someone working at one of those firms in Boston, the majority of our new hires and younger associates come from BC, BU, Northeastern, Suffolk, and UNH (IP only). Granted, that's purely anecdotal, but to say that BU students don't have ties in Boston is absurd. Also:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

I think the point was not that BU/BC students get hired in Boston. That's obvious. From what I've read Boston seems like an insular market where people who have ties to the area from before law school are at an advantage.

cch, If you have ties to TX or the south and would be happy working there I think Texas is a really solid choice. The markets that they place into seem to be doing much better than Chicago/the Midwest and Boston. Unless you're looking to absolutely minimize your debt because you want to do public interest, TX or GTown are probably your best bets.


Just out of curiosity...why would a tie from before law school be an advantage? The most ties people will have to an area are maybe undergrad, a few years max of work experience, and family...I don't understand how any of that helps. Unless you landed a sick job out of college for a big firm you're pretty much at the same point as everyone else who has a year or two of legal work experience. And just because you have family or an undergrad in that location doesn't mean you'll get a job or help your case... If the argument is will the BC or BU name carry much further outside of Boston or maybe NYC, no definitely not. But if you have nothing in Boston and come to law school here and do well, I would assume you have as much of a shot at getting a job as anyone else who went to law school here and also did well.

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby tmon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:31 pm

martorem wrote:
tmon wrote:
martorem wrote:Where are you hearing this? They put 30% in the NLJ 250, compared to 19% at WUSTL. Also, as someone working at one of those firms in Boston, the majority of our new hires and younger associates come from BC, BU, Northeastern, Suffolk, and UNH (IP only). Granted, that's purely anecdotal, but to say that BU students don't have ties in Boston is absurd. Also:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

I think the point was not that BU/BC students get hired in Boston. That's obvious. From what I've read Boston seems like an insular market where people who have ties to the area from before law school are at an advantage.

cch, If you have ties to TX or the south and would be happy working there I think Texas is a really solid choice. The markets that they place into seem to be doing much better than Chicago/the Midwest and Boston. Unless you're looking to absolutely minimize your debt because you want to do public interest, TX or GTown are probably your best bets.


Just out of curiosity...why would a tie from before law school be an advantage? The most ties people will have to an area are maybe undergrad, a few years max of work experience, and family...I don't understand how any of that helps. Unless you landed a sick job out of college for a big firm you're pretty much at the same point as everyone else who has a year or two of legal work experience. And just because you have family or an undergrad in that location doesn't mean you'll get a job or help your case... If the argument is will the BC or BU name carry much further outside of Boston or maybe NYC, no definitely not. But if you have nothing in Boston and come to law school here and do well, I would assume you have as much of a shot at getting a job as anyone else who went to law school here and also did well.

Full disclosure, I'm an 0L, so there's probably some "blind leading the blind" factor here. Feel free to correct me, actual law students.

From what I understand many firms view people without ties as flight risks. If you've got a family in an area or a long history of living there then you've got a reason to be there and they don't think you're going to leave the moment you can get hired in your preferred market. It's cost and labor intensive for firms to hire fresh law school grads, so they want to hang on to them for a while at least. The fact is, a lot of markets (STL and Boston included, from what I've read) are insular and like to hire people they view as their own. This seems to be common, in secondary markets, though not necessarily in all, nor necessarily something you can't overcome. Yeah, placing into the top 10% at a T14 can overcome this problem, but you can't expect to be in the top 10% no matter how hard you work because you've never taken a law school exam.
Last edited by tmon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby 2014 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:31 pm

Ties matter because firms everywhere except for NY (and I guess in this economy to a certain extent NY too) are not interested in hiring individuals who will take their salary and training for 3 years and then just lateral to a different city before the original firm's investment starts paying off.

This is apparently especially true for smaller big cities such as Boston, StL, KC, Anywhere in Texas, etc.

You should just be prepared to answer the question "Why City X" in any interview, and given all else being equal or close, why wouldn't they take someone who has a bunch of family in Boston and is thus less likely to bail as opposed to someone who just went to law school at Boston and has ties elsewhere in the country potentially drawing them home.

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martorem
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby martorem » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:57 pm

Thanks guys...I mean I can understand that reasoning, it definitely makes sense, but like you said, if you prepare for an interview with that in mind then I just don't see it being an issue. I don't know, I just never thought saying "Well hey, my mom lives down the street" would get me anything but laughed at in an interview. And as someone hoping to escape Boston and venture out on my own, I guess I'm also hoping that it won't matter that I won't have any ties to where I'm headed. Thanks for the information and ideas!

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2014
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby 2014 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:25 pm

I mean don't worry a whole lot about it, that's only one of many factors in an employment interview obviously. Most stuff you read here is exaggerated anyway, so when you see people making statements like "you have to have ties" or "everyone who goes to X school is an idiot" etc they really mean that on the whole and sometimes the overwhelming majority of times something is the case, but there are examples of people who have gone to other markets and gotten jobs fine. Networking and Interview skills count for a lot too.

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martorem
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby martorem » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:28 pm

That's what I figured, but was curious to see if anyone had any special insight as well. I always try and take TLS with a grain of salt. Thanks again!

And on an unrelated, but WUSTL note...I just got my third update today. Going back through the thread it seems like there hasn't really been much consistency with how many updates you get before a decision, is that correct?

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby tmon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Also, if you're specifically curious about STL, typing "ties" into the bottom left search box in the WUSTL 2L Taking Questions thread yields quite a few results.

eta: Yeah, seems like updates don't necessarily mean much.

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Nestico87
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Nestico87 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:21 pm

Any estimate on what an applicant's stats need to be in order to have a decent shot at WUSTL's Webster Society Scholarship?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Opie
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Opie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:43 pm

You guys are on target with what I meant by needing ties. Firms just don't want to shell out the money for someone who is always going to be looking for work "back home" or saving up until they can afford to go into solo practice.

BU and BC are probably THE best places to go if you want Boston (outside the obvious Harvard and Yale, etc.), but when they ask you why you want Boston you need a better answer than you didn't hate it the two years you've been here so far. Something like "my fiancee is from New Hampshire and we want to be close to her family, plus I have really enjoyed my time here for XYZ specific reasons" is much more appropriate.

Also, if you go to WUSTL and try to get into one of those other markets, expect A LOT more emphasis on this. More along the lines of "Boston is your dream, but you didn't even go to school here?"

HTH

hartma25
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby hartma25 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:36 pm

In today via email. Applied 2/14

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LuckySpurs
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby LuckySpurs » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:55 pm

Nestico87 wrote:Any estimate on what an applicant's stats need to be in order to have a decent shot at WUSTL's Webster Society Scholarship?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


When I meet with the Dean, I asked her and she said most scholars have 170+ LSAT Scores. They also have incredible resumes. I applied and my score is good, but not that good. I'm hoping my resume makes me a contender. I have a great scholarship but the Webster would be amazing (I hate that word so overused by too lazy to come up with something better).

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dietcoke0
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby dietcoke0 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:54 pm

Getting a little nervous. My 170 with a sub-3.0 GPA was looking good a few weeks ago. Now not so much. Went completely 2-3 to 2-8 to 2-13 but no signs since. 60k here and I would pretty much call this cycle done.

Fabulist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Fabulist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:12 pm

dietcoke0 wrote:Getting a little nervous. My 170 with a sub-3.0 GPA was looking good a few weeks ago. Now not so much. Went completely 2-3 to 2-8 to 2-13 but no signs since. 60k here and I would pretty much call this cycle done.


I got accepted and a (decent, but not big) scholarship from them with a 170 and a sub 2.8 from T40 UG.
Last edited by Fabulist on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dietcoke0
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby dietcoke0 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:15 pm

When did you apply/get accepted?

Fabulist
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Re: WUSTL c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Fabulist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:25 pm

App'd Dec 15, Admitted Feb 3, scholarship award Feb 10.




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