NU Apps '11-'12 - Good Luck Hold Candidates!!!! <3

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tmon
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby tmon » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Yeah, I didn't think any of it was a huge change Tiago, and the overall picture given by the numbers does seem marginally better. Good point too, Samara, percentage changes are probably less of a big deal when you realize how many people that really is.

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Hopefully2012
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Hopefully2012 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
tmon wrote:I'm actually curious what everyone thinks the WE %change means. As I said above I thought it might be that in order to maintain their numbers they couldn't be as strict about WE meaning it's not as much a prerequisite as it seems if apps drop. Any alternatives?


Am I the only one who didn't see this as a major change in the work experience policy?

+1

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:20 pm

Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:21 pm

tmon wrote:Yeah, I didn't think any of it was a huge change Tiago, and the overall picture given by the numbers does seem marginally better. Good point too, Samara, percentage changes are probably less of a big deal when you realize how many people that really is.


Exactly. If you dropped the 2013 class size to 264 so you're working with identical numbers, that would mean a difference of 5 students with 1+ yr of WE and 24 students with 2+ yrs of work experience. Not really compelling evidence that NU is changing their views on WE. More likely that this was caused by fluctuations in the applicant pool.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.


Have you already submitted (ED/RD) to Chicago?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:23 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.


Have you already submitted (ED/RD) to Chicago?


Yeah I submitted RD but the admissions staff said I could change to ED if I want to.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.


Have you already submitted (ED/RD) to Chicago?


Yeah I submitted RD but the admissions staff said I could change to ED if I want to.


Good. It's a lot better to be RD and switch to ED than ED and switch to RD.

I've actually been thinking a lot about your predicament and what I would do. I really can't say. NU is a really good school and getting a full scholarship to a T14 is just outstanding, no matter which way you look at it. Chicago places better in Chicago but not by a wide enough margin; I think the complete benefit of Chicago comes with clerkship opps and opps to get into academia. If your goal is unwaveringly Chicago biglaw, I'd lean towards the NU ED but it's really, really hard to say. If you think that career opportunities throughout your career be based on an incredibly strong degree, I'd lean Chicago. I think you have a really good shot at both, but with U of C's new medians, even without knowing how the NU ED is going to work, I'd probably say NU is your "safer" option.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:33 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.


Have you already submitted (ED/RD) to Chicago?


Yeah I submitted RD but the admissions staff said I could change to ED if I want to.


Good. It's a lot better to be RD and switch to ED than ED and switch to RD.

I've actually been thinking a lot about your predicament and what I would do. I really can't say. NU is a really good school and getting a full scholarship to a T14 is just outstanding, no matter which way you look at it. Chicago places better in Chicago but not by a wide enough margin; I think the complete benefit of Chicago comes with clerkship opps and opps to get into academia. If your goal is unwaveringly Chicago biglaw, I'd lean towards the NU ED but it's really, really hard to say. If you think that career opportunities throughout your career be based on an incredibly strong degree, I'd lean Chicago. I think you have a really good shot at both, but with U of C's new medians, even without knowing how the NU ED is going to work, I'd probably say NU is your "safer" option.


Wholeheartedly agree with the bolded.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:37 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Well I guess I'm not the only one. I thought it was a bit odd that Rayiner phrased it that way.

Overall the numbers don't seem too much better or worse. And I still have no idea whether to go for the ED scholly.


Have you already submitted (ED/RD) to Chicago?


Yeah I submitted RD but the admissions staff said I could change to ED if I want to.


Good. It's a lot better to be RD and switch to ED than ED and switch to RD.

I've actually been thinking a lot about your predicament and what I would do. I really can't say. NU is a really good school and getting a full scholarship to a T14 is just outstanding, no matter which way you look at it. Chicago places better in Chicago but not by a wide enough margin; I think the complete benefit of Chicago comes with clerkship opps and opps to get into academia. If your goal is unwaveringly Chicago biglaw, I'd lean towards the NU ED but it's really, really hard to say. If you think that career opportunities throughout your career be based on an incredibly strong degree, I'd lean Chicago. I think you have a really good shot at both, but with U of C's new medians, even without knowing how the NU ED is going to work, I'd probably say NU is your "safer" option.


Thanks Descartes. I do think this situation presents a lot of unique possibilities, especially with this being the first year of the new NU ED policy. The feedback I got from the poll thread I started was nice but in all honesty everyone said exactly what I already knew.

My career goals include starting in Biglaw. I'm perfectly fine going to New York after law school, and in fact I expect to do just that. For whatever reason, I really want to go to Chicago (the city) for law school after visiting in August and talking to my cousins there. I think I am going to visit one more time in a month and do the on-campus interview at Northwestern. I'll make the final decision at that point.

@Hawkeye: Why do you say that? I'm not sure I have any chance at all at the Northwestern full-ride.

Damn I wish I wasn't their guinea pig.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:44 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:@Hawkeye: Why do you say that? I'm not sure I have any chance at all at the Northwestern full-ride.

Damn I wish I wasn't their guinea pig.


Sorry, I was operating under the assumption that NU ED would yield the full-ride, which may not have been the safest assumption.

NU's primary market, by far, is Chicago. Granted, I'm working off of partner placement data here, but it should give you an idea of a law school's placement power in select cities. Since 1986, 55.6% of partners who graduated from NU work in Chicago. Chicago, on the other hand, is at 38.7%. Chicago is a much more national school and would be my suggestion if you wanted to work in NYC post-graduation. It especially opens up the more elite firms.

So, returning to the assumption... if you wanted Chicago, minimal debt (~50-60k) from NU with fantastic opportunities in Chicago biglaw is the way to go.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Thanks Descartes. I do think this situation presents a lot of unique possibilities, especially with this being the first year of the new NU ED policy. The feedback I got from the poll thread I started was nice but in all honesty everyone said exactly what I already knew.

My career goals include starting in Biglaw. I'm perfectly fine going to New York after law school, and in fact I expect to do just that. For whatever reason, I really want to go to Chicago (the city) for law school after visiting in August and talking to my cousins there. I think I am going to visit one more time in a month and do the on-campus interview at Northwestern. I'll make the final decision at that point.

@Hawkeye: Why do you say that? I'm not sure I have any chance at all at the Northwestern full-ride.

Damn I wish I wasn't their guinea pig.


When are the respective schools ED deadlines? Could you try to pull the 1-2 on them if you are deferred in a timely manner, consistent with when each school really gives out their ED decisions?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:52 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
When are the respective schools ED deadlines? Could you try to pull the 1-2 on them if you are deferred in a timely manner, consistent with when each school really gives out their ED decisions?


This would be the ideal scenario, but they both have a 12/1 ED deadline, and neither issues ED decisions until December.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:54 pm

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:@Hawkeye: Why do you say that? I'm not sure I have any chance at all at the Northwestern full-ride.

Damn I wish I wasn't their guinea pig.


Sorry, I was operating under the assumption that NU ED would yield the full-ride, which may not have been the safest assumption.

NU's primary market, by far, is Chicago. Granted, I'm working off of partner placement data here, but it should give you an idea of a law school's placement power in select cities. Since 1986, 55.6% of partners who graduated from NU work in Chicago. Chicago, on the other hand, is at 38.7%. Chicago is a much more national school and would be my suggestion if you wanted to work in NYC post-graduation. It especially opens up the more elite firms.

So, returning to the assumption... if you wanted Chicago, minimal debt (~50-60k) from NU with fantastic opportunities in Chicago biglaw is the way to go.



If I was confident that I could get the NU full ride this decision would be a no-brainer. 150K from NU vs. ~0 from Chicago is an easy choice, at least for me.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:57 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:If I was confident that I could get the NU full ride this decision would be a no-brainer. 150K from NU vs. ~0 from Chicago is an easy choice, at least for me.


Hahaha yeah, fair enough.

Forgot you have to assign [ridiculously hard to calculate] probabilities to each outcome as well.

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wolfpack-avvocato
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby wolfpack-avvocato » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:32 am

Drilling RC passages

-0 8:11
-3 5:12
-1 7:00
-0 7:52
-0 8:05
-3 5:20

THis pleases me :mrgreen: I clearly need to slow the hell down on a few of the passages. Considering what little RC drilling I have actually done, with a little more practice, this could be a very strong section for me.

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bk1
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby bk1 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:40 am

tmon wrote:Saw this in the new school medians thread. Seems like only good news, unless the lowered WE means they're pulling in more people without WE for their numbers.


rayiner wrote:Northwestern has posted new information: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/profile/

- Class shrunk by 3%, from 273 to 264 (including AJDs).
- Applicants stayed about the same.
- LSAT 25th down to 165.
- Average age is up from 25 to 26.
- W/E is way down, from 3/97/88% with 0/1/2+ years to 5/95/79%.


In response to this, I think the big difference is their willingness to accept people with around 1 year. I know they really try to get people with mostly 2 years but, iirc, many of the people who got off the waitlist were people who had around a year and it wasn't because they were pulling people with numbers above both medians.

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Flips88
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Flips88 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:12 am

bk1 wrote:
tmon wrote:Saw this in the new school medians thread. Seems like only good news, unless the lowered WE means they're pulling in more people without WE for their numbers.


rayiner wrote:Northwestern has posted new information: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/profile/

- Class shrunk by 3%, from 273 to 264 (including AJDs).
- Applicants stayed about the same.
- LSAT 25th down to 165.
- Average age is up from 25 to 26.
- W/E is way down, from 3/97/88% with 0/1/2+ years to 5/95/79%.


In response to this, I think the big difference is their willingness to accept people with around 1 year. I know they really try to get people with mostly 2 years but, iirc, many of the people who got off the waitlist were people who had around a year and it wasn't because they were pulling people with numbers above both medians.

Not below 25%ile anymore.

Image

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Opie
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Opie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:07 pm

I'm starting to doubt my chances here. I'll most likely be under BOTH medians unless I do a lot better on the LSAT than I think I will. How much do you think my additional WE will count for? I also have what I think is a good Why Nu? essay.

bdubs
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby bdubs » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:21 pm

Opie wrote:I'm starting to doubt my chances here. I'll most likely be under BOTH medians unless I do a lot better on the LSAT than I think I will. How much do you think my additional WE will count for? I also have what I think is a good Why Nu? essay.


Below both medians makes your chances really, really bad unless you are URM. I highly doubt your work experience will be able to make up for it.

Shoot for a better LSAT, retaking is usually a good option if you don't end up where you wanted to be.

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Opie
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Opie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:33 pm

bdubs wrote:
Opie wrote:I'm starting to doubt my chances here. I'll most likely be under BOTH medians unless I do a lot better on the LSAT than I think I will. How much do you think my additional WE will count for? I also have what I think is a good Why Nu? essay.


Below both medians makes your chances really, really bad unless you are URM. I highly doubt your work experience will be able to make up for it.

Shoot for a better LSAT, retaking is usually a good option if you don't end up where you wanted to be.



That's what I thought too. I don't have a real LSAT yet, so we'll see. LSP gives me a 42%, but I'm not sure how accurate that is with all the splitters. I think I'm at about the 40th percentile for both.

Edit: not a URM either. I am 29 though with a wife and kids. I plan a DS for that.
Last edited by Opie on Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tmon
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby tmon » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:37 pm

Opie wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Opie wrote:I'm starting to doubt my chances here. I'll most likely be under BOTH medians unless I do a lot better on the LSAT than I think I will. How much do you think my additional WE will count for? I also have what I think is a good Why Nu? essay.


Below both medians makes your chances really, really bad unless you are URM. I highly doubt your work experience will be able to make up for it.

Shoot for a better LSAT, retaking is usually a good option if you don't end up where you wanted to be.



That's what I thought too. I don't have a real LSAT yet, so we'll see. LSP gives me a 42%, but I'm not sure how accurate that is with all the splitters. I think I'm at about the 40th percentile for both.

Yeah if non-URM, you'd need something pretty exceptional for them to take you. If you're below both medians, the way I think of it is they're trying to maintain their numbers, so they don't have much reason to let you in unless you add to the class in some other notable way.

bdubs
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby bdubs » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:38 pm

Opie wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Opie wrote:I'm starting to doubt my chances here. I'll most likely be under BOTH medians unless I do a lot better on the LSAT than I think I will. How much do you think my additional WE will count for? I also have what I think is a good Why Nu? essay.


Below both medians makes your chances really, really bad unless you are URM. I highly doubt your work experience will be able to make up for it.

Shoot for a better LSAT, retaking is usually a good option if you don't end up where you wanted to be.



That's what I thought too. I don't have a real LSAT yet, so we'll see. LSP gives me a 42%, but I'm not sure how accurate that is with all the splitters. I think I'm at about the 40th percentile for both.


LSP is frequently wrong, use LSN. I doubt you will see too many people below both medians who are not URM getting in at any T14.

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Opie
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Opie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:01 pm

I've considered AJD as well. There's a lower median there. Anyone have thoughts on that? I'd be with people more in my age group. (not that I don't love all of you young folk)

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:10 pm

I'm a big advocate of retaking. I took the LSAT three times altogether, and I feel like it worked out well for me. It's worth sitting out an extra cycle if it's going to make a big difference in where you go.

Who knows, though, maybe you'll have a pleasant surprise in October!

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Opie
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Re: NU '11-'12 Apps-Splitter Friends battle evil/rising medians

Postby Opie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:21 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:I'm a big advocate of retaking. I took the LSAT three times altogether, and I feel like it worked out well for me. It's worth sitting out an extra cycle if it's going to make a big difference in where you go.

Who knows, though, maybe you'll have a pleasant surprise in October!


Oh, I'll retake if needed. I have three schools on my radar. NU is my reach. I have a T30 that places well here that is my target, and I'd consider the local TTT if the money is right. It'd have to be VERY right though. They place okay where I want to live, but the money isn't as good.

If I don't get in to NU, get $$ at the T30 school, or $$$$ at the local school, I'm waiting another year.




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