NU Apps '11-'12 - Good Luck Hold Candidates!!!! <3

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southernsuperstar
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby southernsuperstar » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:50 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
Mr. Somebody wrote:Nu law jist tweeted more jd decisions hopefully better news this time


0_0 new classmates? Hopefully not more carnage.


I don't know if I want an update today considering what happened yesterday....I can wait longer!

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crooked
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby crooked » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:53 pm

kennethellenparcell wrote:A couple of things make me inclined to feel this way:
(1) The fact that applicants with similar numbers get different decisions.
(2) The fact that the acceptance rate (which factors in yield) counts for 2.5% of the US News Rankings formula. How much does it really matter? The t14 has way more applicants than they know what to do with even if the number has declined. I think it's probably true that they have more qualified people than seats.

I think schools are looking for factors that they feel like would predispose an applicant to success at their school. Since each school has a different personality, these factors are different and that may be why qualified applicants get different decisions from similarly ranked schools. Just a theory. Yield protections is too simplistic of an explanation for me. From going through this application process, I really think that this is not just a numbers game even though numbers ARE important.

crooked wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:I'm gonna be honest - I don't really believe in yield protection at the t14.


Really? What about schools like UVA? They recently sent out a round of WLs that looked like pretty blatant YP. I'm more inclined to believe the conventional wisdom here that different schools rely on it to different degrees and that the T6 don't really bother with it.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I still think schools YP, but I don't think it comes down purely to numbers, just as I don't think admissions more broadly are entirely numbers-based (and that has certainly proven true in my own cycle). If two numerically identical candidates with numbers that are >75% apply, but one has a strong why X and the other doesn't, I can see a school reasonably assuming that the why X applicant is more likely to attend and, in turn, being more likely to accept that candidate. Essentially, I think that some consideration might be given to how likely a student is to attend, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that such consideration is holistic - it would make sense that if a student desperately wants to work in New York and makes that clear in his application, a school like UVA or Duke might not accept him because its placement in that market isn't as strong; similarly, if a student expresses a strong desire to pursue a field in which a school offers few classes, that school might reasonably think that the student isn't fully committed to attending and "yield protect" in that sense. Again, I don't know if that's true for every top school, but I think it plays out in some admissions decisions. For example, at my Georgetown interview, Dean Cornblatt explicitly said that he considers how likely a student is to attend in his decision-making; he said that he might turn down a 180/4.0 (or similar) for that reason.

I think we're both essentially saying similar things and just giving it a different label. I was calling it YP for expediency, but maybe that has implications of purely numerical decisions that I wasn't intending to convey

Sorry to derail this thread - good luck to everyone still waiting for decisions!

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Kikero
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby Kikero » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:55 pm

sandwiches5000 wrote:HELD. Does anyone know if it's worth sending in additional materials/LOCI in case the financial aid package is better than other schools so the schools I've been accepted to can consider NW's offer?

How generous is Northwestern when it comes to giving out aid packages?


I believe I remember reading that Northwestern has one of the lowest percentages of students receiving aid, but that the average amount of aid for those who do receive it is one of the highest.

Edit: Oh yes, I did remember reading it. It was here on the TLS profile page for Northwestern:

"According to LSAC data, Northwestern grants scholarships to one of the lowest percentages of students (31.6% in 2009) out of the Top 14 law schools. However, the median grant amount was the highest of all 14 schools at $20,000/year."
Last edited by Kikero on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby Samara » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:56 pm

So...it sounds like the holds are not equal to a waitlist. Maybe just a way to give everyone a response within the timeframe?

As for YP, I don't know that all schools practice it, but some T14 certainly do, at least to a limited extent. The thing with Michigan in particular is that they are still competitive for YHS numbers. I'm guessing that all Darrow recipients have at least one YHS. That said, Michigan's "holistic review" has the added (even if you presume unintentional) benefit of yield protection. If you only make offers to YHS people who demonstrate interest in Michigan (which was the crux of Dean Z's explanation) you are getting the same YHS people you would otherwise and keeping your yield low. That's some YHS people get offers and others don't.

Yes, rankings are small, but the number of points that separate each school within a given tier is very small. Additionally, Michigan's medians are some of the lowest in the T14. Therefore, to stay on top of the MVPB(DNCG) tier, yield protection becomes crucial.

A similar argument could be made for NU, replacing holistic review with work experience.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:16 pm

crooked wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:I'm gonna be honest - I don't really believe in yield protection at the t14.


Really? What about schools like UVA? They recently sent out a round of WLs that looked like pretty blatant YP. I'm more inclined to believe the conventional wisdom here that different schools rely on it to different degrees and that the T6 don't really bother with it.

There are probably schools that do it *cough American*, but yeah, I think different T14s have different admissions strategies. Some are very, very, very numbers based, some have specific factors that they value highly, and many if not all care about applicants showing much more than a cursory interest in their school. Then there are schools like Berkeley where admissions is entirely unpredictable.

It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby franklyscarlet » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:18 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.


So... you're saying we should coordinate a giant Jam-themed musical number in the courtyard? Because I'm so down for that.


On a serious note, I think you're right. The hold doesn't seem to be a waitlist, but more of a "we're not sure for some reason, so convince us" invitation.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:21 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.


So... you're saying we should coordinate a giant Jam-themed musical number in the courtyard? Because I'm so down for that.


On a serious note, I think you're right. The hold doesn't seem to be a waitlist, but more of a "we're not sure for some reason, so convince us" invitation.

yessss!!!!!!!!!!

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kennethellenparcell
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby kennethellenparcell » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:26 pm

I agree with what y'all are saying. I guess from TLS - I got the impression that people think YP = numbers based. That's always been kind of frustrating to me.

Samara - really how much of a difference is it between rankings? I'm really curious about that and I couldn't find rankings scores from the US News formula online.

Jam - I've seen people root for you on these boards and I'm rooting for you too. I really hope you get into all of the schools you want to go to!

JamMasterJ wrote:
crooked wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:I'm gonna be honest - I don't really believe in yield protection at the t14.


Really? What about schools like UVA? They recently sent out a round of WLs that looked like pretty blatant YP. I'm more inclined to believe the conventional wisdom here that different schools rely on it to different degrees and that the T6 don't really bother with it.

There are probably schools that do it *cough American*, but yeah, I think different T14s have different admissions strategies. Some are very, very, very numbers based, some have specific factors that they value highly, and many if not all care about applicants showing much more than a cursory interest in their school. Then there are schools like Berkeley where admissions is entirely unpredictable.

It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby JDizzle2015 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:28 pm


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kennethellenparcell
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby kennethellenparcell » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:28 pm

Thanks!

JDizzle2015 wrote:Here's a link to the raw scores: http://www.prelawhandbook.com/2012_top_25_law_schools

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:36 pm

crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."

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crooked
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby crooked » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:39 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."


Ohhh, that makes much more sense than my interpretation. Thanks :)

justicefishy
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby justicefishy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:40 pm

Anyone gotten anything from that new release of decisions today?

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UnamSanctam
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby UnamSanctam » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:40 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."


NU-Michigan (b)romance is something I can really get behind.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby franklyscarlet » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:42 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."


NU-Michigan (b)romance is something I can really get behind.


obviously NH will be developing some sort of Michigan-NU bus/shuttle system.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:45 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."


NU-Michigan (b)romance is something I can really get behind.


obviously NH will be developing some sort of Michigan-NU bus/shuttle system.

+1 to US, and Scarlet: it's ~ $44 roundtrip to take megabus to AA from Chicago and then come back. :mrgreen:

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:48 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
crooked wrote:Even Johann is a Dean Z fan. That said, I'm not sure what he means by "that time of year." Is it early for YP or late? I didn't really think time of year had much to do with it.

1) I love that Johann <3s Dean Z
2) I think 'that time of year' refers to the time of the year when they release holds/WLs and then everyone starts claiming YP. IE "Oh god, it's that time of the year again..."


NU-Michigan (b)romance is something I can really get behind.


obviously NH will be developing some sort of Michigan-NU bus/shuttle system.

<<<<<jelly

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JDizzle2015
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby JDizzle2015 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:52 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:NU-Michigan (b)romance is something I can really get behind.

+1.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby Mr. Somebody » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:57 pm

justicefishy wrote:Anyone gotten anything from that new release of decisions today?


Not yet

As for the YP discussion, I am a big Johann fan but at the end of the day the admissions officials are salesmen. They will not admit to anything that will make their product look bad. YP leaves a bad taste in most applicants' mouths. All Dean Z's post really said was that Michigan does holistic review and won't be robotic about it, which again goes back to their marketing strategy. She didn't really deny the existence of YP.

That being said I think the recent holds have more to do with falling applications than with strictly YP. Schools just seem to be more cautious at this point in the game. If you really want NU and you have the numbers I would remain optimistic.
Last edited by Mr. Somebody on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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emkay625
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby emkay625 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:57 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.


So... you're saying we should coordinate a giant Jam-themed musical number in the courtyard? Because I'm so down for that.


On a serious note, I think you're right. The hold doesn't seem to be a waitlist, but more of a "we're not sure for some reason, so convince us" invitation.

yessss!!!!!!!!!!



In my head, i'm picturing this, but starring Jam instead of Elle Woods. skip ahead to 4:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4K2rwb0KE

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southernsuperstar
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby southernsuperstar » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:13 pm

emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
It seems that many of the applicants that were held, although numerically very strong, did not show a ton of interest in NU. I would also venture a guess that some of the remaining people (especially me) had either non-compelling WE or none whatsoever. I think they are giving us the opportunity to show them that we want to go there, that we know why we want to go there, and that there is a reason that they should accept us.


So... you're saying we should coordinate a giant Jam-themed musical number in the courtyard? Because I'm so down for that.


On a serious note, I think you're right. The hold doesn't seem to be a waitlist, but more of a "we're not sure for some reason, so convince us" invitation.

yessss!!!!!!!!!!



In my head, i'm picturing this, but starring Jam instead of Elle Woods. skip ahead to 4:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4K2rwb0KE


May I request one of the cheerleader roles?
Last edited by southernsuperstar on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rijed
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby rijed » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:52 pm

Just read my letter... held.

reb402
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby reb402 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:02 pm

This silence is deafening. Any updates?

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:04 pm

tweetsbyjohann Johann
OBTW- decision wise, we are not done today. more to come.
24 minutes ago


Weird that no one on TLS has heard anything at all today o_o

justicefishy
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Re: NU (NW?) Apps '11-'12 - Congratulations RD Admits! <3

Postby justicefishy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
tweetsbyjohann Johann
OBTW- decision wise, we are not done today. more to come.
24 minutes ago


Weird that no one on TLS has heard anything at all today o_o


Agreed. I'm still waiting for something, anything. Every email I get, there's this brief moment of panic then...goddamn Groupon.




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