Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

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spek
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby spek » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:07 pm

I'm a little late to the game but just found out that I received the invitation to apply package. That's fairly exciting. Still working on my darn 250 though.

yoiav
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby yoiav » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:25 pm

i know that this subject has been brought up many but.....
i have sent out all my apps except for yale and although the conclusion on tls was that for nyu and penn, since they do not specifically exclude traffic tickets, they want an addendum for them. however, they ask in the character and fitness question if you were ever found guilty of any crime. yale on the other hand, although they do not specifically exclude traffic violations, they ask about felonies or misdemeanors. does anybody know if in the state of new york or new jersey whether a speeding ticket or running a red is a misdemeanor?

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kulshan
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby kulshan » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:36 pm

yoiav wrote:i know that this subject has been brought up many but.....
i have sent out all my apps except for yale and although the conclusion on tls was that for nyu and penn, since they do not specifically exclude traffic tickets, they want an addendum for them. however, they ask in the character and fitness question if you were ever found guilty of any crime. yale on the other hand, although they do not specifically exclude traffic violations, they ask about felonies or misdemeanors. does anybody know if in the state of new york or new jersey whether a speeding ticket or running a red is a misdemeanor?


I emailed YLS to ask about speeding tickets. They said email just to be safe, which I do, though I'm not sure what my ticket was classified as.

MumofCad
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby MumofCad » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:58 pm

spek wrote:I'm a little late to the game but just found out that I received the invitation to apply package. That's fairly exciting. Still working on my darn 250 though.


That's great! I'm so jealous of you guys! Is it really nice? Are there students sipping cocktails pool-side while debating the intricacies of potential tort reform? I remember reading about a cupcake truck...

Good luck finishing up the 250! She's said its usually not a deal-breaker either way so try not to stress too much. At least you are already on their radar :)

spek
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby spek » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:55 pm

MumofCad wrote:
spek wrote:I'm a little late to the game but just found out that I received the invitation to apply package. That's fairly exciting. Still working on my darn 250 though.


That's great! I'm so jealous of you guys! Is it really nice? Are there students sipping cocktails pool-side while debating the intricacies of potential tort reform? I remember reading about a cupcake truck...

Good luck finishing up the 250! She's said its usually not a deal-breaker either way so try not to stress too much. At least you are already on their radar :)



Haha. It was sent to my permanent address so I haven't had a chance to read through it yet. From what my mom said it sounds very encouraging and they enclosed several examples of PSs and 250s so I think I'll wait for the Thanksgiving break so I can take a look at those before submitting my app. I think I need to take some pressure off myself for the 250. I'm fairly certain I'll just go with what I currently have, just need to tweak the ending and refine it a bit.

Also, cupcake truck? Sounds amazing :).

yoiav
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby yoiav » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:06 pm

kulshan wrote:
yoiav wrote:i know that this subject has been brought up many but.....
i have sent out all my apps except for yale and although the conclusion on tls was that for nyu and penn, since they do not specifically exclude traffic tickets, they want an addendum for them. however, they ask in the character and fitness question if you were ever found guilty of any crime. yale on the other hand, although they do not specifically exclude traffic violations, they ask about felonies or misdemeanors. does anybody know if in the state of new york or new jersey whether a speeding ticket or running a red is a misdemeanor?


I emailed YLS to ask about speeding tickets. They said email just to be safe, which I do, though I'm not sure what my ticket was classified as.


i found online that speeding tickets are NOT a misdemeanor in New York so I will not be mentioning them but i have not been able to find out about running a red in NJ so i will write an addendum for that

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LaCumparsita
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby LaCumparsita » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:34 pm

Yay! Complete 11/17 :) And now the super long wait begins.

westbayguy
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby westbayguy » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:36 pm

OK I don't want to freak any of you out, but I am curious, does this change in the YLS COAP (LRAP) program make you reconsider YLS in the long run?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=170538&start=25



Post subject: Re: Best Law Schools for Financial AidPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:28 am

YLS still awesome (any job) but not as awesome as it used to be (as of Oct 25, 2011)

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Financial_Aid/COAP_incoming_description.pdf

CONTRIBUTION FORMULA – NEW
The amount that a participant is expected to contribute to educational loan repayment depends on the participant's annual income, and is calculated as follows:

Adjusted Income Participant Contribution
under $50,000 none
$50,000 to $65,000 15% of income over $50,000
$65, 000 to $80,000 $2,250 plus 30% of income over $65,000
Over $80,000 $6,750 plus 60% of income over $80,000

Previously

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/F ... iption.pdf

Adjusted Income under $60,000 None
over $60,00
25% of income over $60,000 (single)
20% of income over $60,000 (after spouse/partner income shelter of up to $40,000 – see below)
Last edited by westbayguy on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Schola
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Schola » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:00 pm

westbayguy wrote:OK I don't want to freak any of you out, but I am curious, does this change in the YLS COAP (LRAP) program make you reconsider YLS in the long run?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=170538&start=25



Post subject: Re: Best Law Schools for Financial AidPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:28 am

YLS still awesome (any job) but not as awesome as it used to be (as of Oct 25, 2011)

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Financial_Aid/COAP_incoming_description.pdf

CONTRIBUTION FORMULA – NEW
The amount that a participant is expected to contribute to educational loan repayment depends on the participant's annual income, and is calculated as follows:

Adjusted Income Participant Contribution
under $50,000 none
$50,000 to $65,000 15% of income over $50,000
$65, 000 to $80,000 $2,250 plus 30% of income over $65,000
Over $80,000 $6,750 plus 60% of income over $80,000

Previously

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/F ... iption.pdf

Adjusted Income under $60,000 None
over $60,00
25% of income over $60,000 (single)
20% of income over $60,000 (after spouse/partner income shelter of up to $40,000 – see below)


I would say this is still amazingly generous, and it shouldn't alter your decision to go to Yale. If you are in law solely to make a lot of money, then it probably won't make much of a difference whether you go to YHSCCN or probably even MPV. You will probably finish high in your class and will start out as an associate making about $160-$180 no matter where you go. At that point, it's all about billable hours, shmoozing, etc, not whether you went to a school ranked number 1 or number 4 or 7, etc.

Yet if you are good enough to get into Yale, then you will probably also get offered a full ride to Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, etc. In that case, if you are only in it for the money, then under either contribution system you should go to the school that gives you the full ride b/c you will get to keep more of your take-home and you will ultiamtely end up in the same place.

But if you are going into law to do something that isn't necessarily going to bring in the big bucks and you want the intellectual rigor/freedom of Yale and you want to have a bit more dynamic/untypical career than you would have simply punching the clock at BigLaw, then you will still want to go to Yale under this new loan repayment plan.

Schola
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Schola » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:16 pm

Looking at it more, if you are married then the first $40000 of your spouse's income PLUS whatever the spouse is paying for student loans doesn't get touched by Yale. And you get a credit of $8000 for each child, PLUS up to $17,000 in child care!

So if you are married and have two kids, you can have a household income of up to $153,000 (assuming your spouse makes $40 and you $80 and you pay for childcare and your spouse has no loans of his/her own) and you DON"T HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR LEGAL EDUCATION. $153k is more than enough to have an incredibly comfortable existence anywhere outside of Manhattan.

Edit: I mean above and beyond $6700 or whatever. And that will get deducted from your taxes

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:41 pm

Schola wrote:Yet if you are good enough to get into Yale, then you will probably also get offered a full ride to Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, etc. In that case, if you are only in it for the money, then under either contribution system you should go to the school that gives you the full ride b/c you will get to keep more of your take-home and you will ultiamtely end up in the same place.

But if you are going into law to do something that isn't necessarily going to bring in the big bucks and you want the intellectual rigor/freedom of Yale and you want to have a bit more dynamic/untypical career than you would have simply punching the clock at BigLaw, then you will still want to go to Yale under this new loan repayment plan.


Ehh...I dunno about the bolded. I can't think of a scenario where I would NOT pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) if accepted. I agree that most of the T14 will help you get a big law job if that's really what you're after (with variations amongst them); but do you think the first job out of law school is the only thing the worth considering when thinking about which school to go to?

I would say pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) over anything JUST to keep options open. You never know, ya might wanna be a Supreme Court Judge one day. :D

Schola
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Schola » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:15 am

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Schola wrote:Yet if you are good enough to get into Yale, then you will probably also get offered a full ride to Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, etc. In that case, if you are only in it for the money, then under either contribution system you should go to the school that gives you the full ride b/c you will get to keep more of your take-home and you will ultiamtely end up in the same place.

But if you are going into law to do something that isn't necessarily going to bring in the big bucks and you want the intellectual rigor/freedom of Yale and you want to have a bit more dynamic/untypical career than you would have simply punching the clock at BigLaw, then you will still want to go to Yale under this new loan repayment plan.


Ehh...I dunno about the bolded. I can't think of a scenario where I would NOT pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) if accepted. I agree that most of the T14 will help you get a big law job if that's really what you're after (with variations amongst them); but do you think the first job out of law school is the only thing the worth considering when thinking about which school to go to?

I would say pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) over anything JUST to keep options open. You never know, ya might wanna be a Supreme Court Judge one day. :D


I am not sure we disagree. That was a conditional statement. You have made a judgment that you might want your career in law to include more than just BigLaw, and that keeping that option open is worth, say, $100k to you, assuming you get a job in BigLaw right out. In that case, you are the type of person who should go to YHS over a full-ride to CCNMPV.

And let me add before I go any further and get quite warranted pushback, that I think I am way over-stating the HYS/everyone else dichotomy. Going to any T14 on a full ride will give you LOTS of options b/c you won't be burdened by debt, assuming you do well.

MumofCad
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby MumofCad » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:22 am

This is interesting. It would certainly impact my decision (on the long shot that I miraculously get in), because I fully plan to use the LRAP or a scholarship at whatever school I attend. I've wrestled with an employment payment plan as well, but I'm not sure I want to be beholden to working in the same field for a few years when I get out.....Of course, it really matters most how this stacks up compared to other LRAPs from peer schools. I haven't looked into it too much since its all theoretical until acceptances and scholarship go out and I don't want to get attached to an unattainable option.

Thanks for posting the info though. Hopefully someone on TLS will need to be considering it soon!

ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.
Last edited by MumofCad on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Elston Gunn » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:59 am

WhiteGuy5 wrote:Ehh...I dunno about the bolded. I can't think of a scenario where I would NOT pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) if accepted. I agree that most of the T14 will help you get a big law job if that's really what you're after (with variations amongst them); but do you think the first job out of law school is the only thing the worth considering when thinking about which school to go to?

I would say pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) over anything JUST to keep options open. You never know, ya might wanna be a Supreme Court Judge one day. :D


Hmm, well I think it's worth considering the prestige of actually getting a full tuition scholarship from CCN. It's A LOT harder to get a Rubenstein or Hamilton than it is to get into H. An employer might think a full tuition scholly to Chicago is much more impressive than graduating from Harvard. So I don't think it's obvious that taking H or S (I can't imagine saying no to Y for many reasons) is even absent debt considerations a better career move.

I could be wrong about that of course. It'd be interesting to hear from past Hamiltons how employers have reacted to it.

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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Schola » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:30 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:Ehh...I dunno about the bolded. I can't think of a scenario where I would NOT pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) if accepted. I agree that most of the T14 will help you get a big law job if that's really what you're after (with variations amongst them); but do you think the first job out of law school is the only thing the worth considering when thinking about which school to go to?

I would say pick HYS (and maybe Columbia) over anything JUST to keep options open. You never know, ya might wanna be a Supreme Court Judge one day. :D


Hmm, well I think it's worth considering the prestige of actually getting a full tuition scholarship from CCN. It's A LOT harder to get a Rubenstein or Hamilton than it is to get into H. An employer might think a full tuition scholly to Chicago is much more impressive than graduating from Harvard. So I don't think it's obvious that taking H or S (I can't imagine saying no to Y for many reasons) is even absent debt considerations a better career move.

I could be wrong about that of course. It'd be interesting to hear from past Hamiltons how employers have reacted to it.


I think you are probably right, for what it is worth. Sometimes I get the feeling that in discussions like this I am only sharing my enlightened ignorance w/ others.

While it's still early in the game for me, I believe that the offer of a full ride to any T14 school will attract my attention and careful consideration. But my life circumstances and career aspirations mean that I would almost surely never take a job in BigLaw, and thus I really don't want debt to impede my professional freedom.

AttaBoy
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby AttaBoy » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:56 pm

MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

freestallion
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby freestallion » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:09 pm

AttaBoy wrote:
MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

Wow... that really makes me wish I could attend Yale. Too bad my chance of getting in is 0.0001%

thederangedwang
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby thederangedwang » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:16 pm

freestallion wrote:
AttaBoy wrote:
MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

Wow... that really makes me wish I could attend Yale. Too bad my chance of getting in is 0.0001%


is that according to law school predictor/calculator? lol

freestallion
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby freestallion » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:22 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
freestallion wrote:
AttaBoy wrote:
MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

Wow... that really makes me wish I could attend Yale. Too bad my chance of getting in is 0.0001%


is that according to law school predictor/calculator? lol

Haha no. It's according to my own internal calculator :P According to LSP I have a 36% chance, but it puts me at deny =/ ON LSN I have not seen a single person with my numbers get in.

.... but I'll still apply on the off chance that miracles happen ;)

MumofCad
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby MumofCad » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:23 pm

freestallion wrote:
AttaBoy wrote:
MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

Wow... that really makes me wish I could attend Yale. Too bad my chance of getting in is 0.0001%


Hush! Not true! Not true! So far we've had identical cycles and I give us at least a 1% chance :)

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winning
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby winning » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:48 pm

Can anyone give me some information about why submitting early for Yale isn't as important as it is for other schools?

Thanks!

MumofCad
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby MumofCad » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:48 pm

winning wrote:Can anyone give me some information about why submitting early for Yale isn't as important as it is for other schools?

Thanks!


The other schools do something called "rolling admissions," where they basically just let qualified people in as they go. Harvard for example will admit a large number of its class in Nov-Dec from Sep-Oct applicants. Its not that you can't get in later, its just that it gets harder as they get more selective due to limited space.

Yale doesn't let many people in automatically and makes an effort to resist making too many decisions until its got the full applicant pool. It strives not to have rolling admissions. So really, its just a choice the school makes. Plus, Yale does a faculty review process that basically requires you to get a top mark from 3 profs, which both takes time and further whittles those that get in.

I'm not positive I have described this correctly, but its something like that.

Schola
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Schola » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:08 am

MumofCad wrote:
freestallion wrote:
AttaBoy wrote:
MumofCad wrote:ETA: Does anyone know of a place we can go to compare LRAP programs? I thought I saw one but all the ones coming up now are pretty outdated. I know there are like Ebay calculators and what not where you can plug in relevant numbers. That would be great to be able to calculate projected income, spousal income, dependents, etc? If not, I guess I'll just have to work out the numbers at each school. My understanding was that Yale has a very lenient categorization for employment that qualifies, whereas some other T-14 are more strict about what qualifies as public interest or what not.


Correct. At every other school you have to be in an eligible public interest/government position to qualify. At Yale, "eligibility is based upon the graduate’s income and debt level, not the type of employment."

Wow... that really makes me wish I could attend Yale. Too bad my chance of getting in is 0.0001%


Hush! Not true! Not true! So far we've had identical cycles and I give us at least a 1% chance :)


Lawschoolpredictor, the only truly objective, scientific arbiter of disputes of this nature probably puts you both at at least 50% or 60%, and higher if you are URM.

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doppelganger
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby doppelganger » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:01 pm

I am similar to Stallion in that my chances are very slim, yet I can't help but try. I know that I only want to pursue public interest, and Yale would give me a firm foundation from the source of legal education, rather than the rote memorization of laws. Also, considering the LRAP, clinics, and mentoring professors, it is clearly Utopia.

Anyone else want to share their why-Yale reasons :?:

On a different note, does anyone know if application numbers are up or down in comparison to other years :?:

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sandwiches5000
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Re: Yale c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby sandwiches5000 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:22 am

Welp. Delayed this a month after all my other apps because I have no idea what to write for the 250. A month later. Still am not entirely sure. Starting the app though! GL all.




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