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Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:58 pm
by thelawyler
msblaw89 wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:Ya, I'm still on.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:53 pm
by cogitoergosum
so did anyone NOT get the email?

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:54 am
by jim-green
I did not get it :(

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:42 am
by JamMasterJ
jim-green wrote:I did not get it :(

kinda shitty if they don't give you some sort of update

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:49 pm
by cogitoergosum
JamMasterJ wrote:
jim-green wrote:I did not get it :(

kinda shitty if they don't give you some sort of update

Anything new jim-green?

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:49 am
by jim-green
cogitoergosum wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
jim-green wrote:I did not get it :(

kinda shitty if they don't give you some sort of update

Anything new jim-green?
Thank you for asking, but no :(

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:35 am
by dingbat
I posted this analysis in an argument of the economics of law school in an unrelated thread, but thought it would be of interest in this thread
(yes, the methodology has some flaws, which are mainly due to my not wanting to spend a stupid amount of time on the analysis)

dingbat wrote:Based on NLJ250, 56.93% of UPENN class of 2011 is working at an NLJ250 firm. This is higher than the amount reported by the school. As such, let's take the school report for class of 2011 as being fairly accurate.

out of a class of 274:
12 did not report, which we shall assume are unemployed
19 in firms of less than 100, no salary reported, we shall assume they earn $0
14 in firms of 101-250 reported earning a median of $133,571
21 in firms of 251-500 reported earning a median of $151,400
125 in firms of 501+ reported earning a median of $154,837
18 in business reported a median of $83,300
41 clerkship, reported earning a median of $55,020
11 in gov/military reported a median of $55,421
10 in PI reported a median of $44,843
3 in academia, no salary reported; to be conservative, we'll call it $0

This gives a weighted average income of $106,632, in the first year.
Many clerks end up going into biglaw, and biglaw has lockstep salary increases, so in future years the weighted average income will probably increase. But, for argument's sake, let's not factor in any increase whatsoever
It appears to me that median income in the US is about $41k, but, for rounding purposes, let's call it $46,632

That means that the weighted average income of a Penn Law graduate is earning $60k/year more than a non Penn Law graduate.

Now, let's assume that tuition is $50k per year, and that this is borrowed at 7.9%
Let's assume that the extra $60k is taxed at 45% (combined federal and state)
Let's also assume that the entire extra salary (after tax) is used to pay down the loan
After 10 years (3 law school, 7 earning just the additional $60k), the student will have earned an additional $259,123, for an IRR of 23.44%

But, you say, we should include total COA (even though said person would incur living costs regardless). OK, let's call COA $70k. Well, after 10 years, the increased earnings would be $227,289

But, now we're only talking 10 years, not lifelong.

Let's say that this same person earns the JD at age 30 and works until age 60, for a total of 30 years (most will work longer). I will ignore any potential raises, income during 1L and 2L summer, and any other fancy stuff
Lifetime increased earnings would be $887,290

If we were to raise the cost of tuition to $200k per year, lifetime earnings would be $590k higher

Or we can look at it in terms of IRR.
Let's assume no loans. Cash flow in law school is -$70k
Cash flow thereafter is $33k ($60k increase minus 45% tax rate)
after 5 years working, 8 total, the IRR is positive.
After 10 years total (7 years working) the IRR is 9.31%
After working 30 years, the IRR is 18.30%
that's a damn good investment.

The breakeven after 10 years (IRR=0) would require tuition of $77k; IRR after 30 years working would still be 12.27%

the breakeven point, where IRR after 30 years of work is 0% would be if Penn were to cost $330k per year.

ok, that's unrealistic. Treasuries currently yield 2.53%; let's add a risk factor of 1.47%, so that we would need to earn a return of 4.00% for the investment to be reasonable.
COA would then be $182,805

Not a big enough risk factor? OK, let's say we need to earn an 8.00% return
That would justify an annual cost of $144,435

note that I earlier said
dingbat wrote:Top schools could probably raise tuition and would still have to turn applicants away.
while I said this based on demand, you can see above that this can be justified by the results.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:15 pm
by jim-green
cogitoergosum wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
jim-green wrote:I did not get it :(
kinda shitty if they don't give you some sort of update
Anything new jim-green?
Withdrew for Cal.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:48 pm
by whatismylife
So has ANYONE gotten off the WL???

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:02 pm
by Indebted
whatismylife wrote:So has ANYONE gotten off the WL???


Not me, but a handful have gotten off. Most recent seems to be last week (according to Penn WL thread).

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:10 pm
by r6_philly
Indebted wrote:
whatismylife wrote:So has ANYONE gotten off the WL???


Not me, but a handful have gotten off. Most recent seems to be last week (according to Penn WL thread).


Yes I confirm there was movement last week.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:58 pm
by ahenson7
Penn State called me on the way to my orientation to UGA Law offering a 3 year full tuition scholarship if I'd reconsider attending.
I really, really hate Penn State right now.
Couldn't have mentioned this FOUR MONTHS ago??

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:46 pm
by r6_philly
ahenson7 wrote:Penn State called me on the way to my orientation to UGA Law offering a 3 year full tuition scholarship if I'd reconsider attending.
I really, really hate Penn State right now.
Couldn't have mentioned this FOUR MONTHS ago??


You are either trolling or are in the wrong thread.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:02 am
by Doorkeeper
ahenson7 wrote:Penn State called me on the way to my orientation to UGA Law offering a 3 year full tuition scholarship if I'd reconsider attending.
I really, really hate Penn State right now.
Couldn't have mentioned this FOUR MONTHS ago??

180 troll.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:19 am
by ahenson7
Doorkeeper wrote:
ahenson7 wrote:Penn State called me on the way to my orientation to UGA Law offering a 3 year full tuition scholarship if I'd reconsider attending.
I really, really hate Penn State right now.
Couldn't have mentioned this FOUR MONTHS ago??

180 troll.


I am completely serious. You can look at my history of posts... I've never posted anything off the wall.
Anyway, I wondered if it was some sort of scam myself, but the man I spoke to in the admissions office said they had a couple seats open up and needed to fill them immediately.

I totally understand how ridiculous it sounds. I was just wondering if any current students knew about the law school making proposals like this.

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:57 am
by r6_philly
ahenson7 wrote:
I am completely serious. You can look at my history of posts... I've never posted anything off the wall.
Anyway, I wondered if it was some sort of scam myself, but the man I spoke to in the admissions office said they had a couple seats open up and needed to fill them immediately.

I totally understand how ridiculous it sounds. I was just wondering if any current students knew about the law school making proposals like this.


Look for the Penn State thread please then.