Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
iamrobk
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby iamrobk » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:12 pm

luxxe wrote:
Schang1 wrote:For the 5-year plan essay, did any of you explicitly mention the word "5-year" anywhere in the essay? :o and did you guys title it something along the lines of "5-year plan"?


Yes & yes. I used it as more of a "Why UPenn?" but ended it with how UPenn would contribute to my 5 year plan.

Yeah that's basically what I did too.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:32 pm

iamrobk wrote:
luxxe wrote:
Schang1 wrote:For the 5-year plan essay, did any of you explicitly mention the word "5-year" anywhere in the essay? :o and did you guys title it something along the lines of "5-year plan"?


Yes & yes. I used it as more of a "Why UPenn?" but ended it with how UPenn would contribute to my 5 year plan.

Yeah that's basically what I did too.

I didn't write the term "5 year plan," but spoke more about my short and longer term goals and how Penn could help me achieve them

kitkat450
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby kitkat450 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:40 pm

for those of you that wrote multiple optional essays, where did you put them? Does the app let you upload two to that section?

Thanks!

curiousgeorgia
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby curiousgeorgia » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:44 pm

kitkat450 wrote:for those of you that wrote multiple optional essays, where did you put them? Does the app let you upload two to that section?

Thanks!


I put multiple essays into one word document and uploaded it in that section - just be sure to distinguish which essay is which.

User avatar
oldad
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:11 am

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby oldad » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:57 pm

curiousgeorgia wrote:
kitkat450 wrote:for those of you that wrote multiple optional essays, where did you put them? Does the app let you upload two to that section?

Thanks!


I put multiple essays into one word document and uploaded it in that section - just be sure to distinguish which essay is which.


+1

whybother
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby whybother » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Any point of applying if I have a 162/3.5? I have a graduate degree and significant work experience, which also translated in a solid personal statement. I am from Philadelphia; I have lived and worked here my entire life. I have a strong optional 5 year plan that incorporates the interdisciplinary focus and Graduate School of Education dual degree opportunity to my future career plans for special education law and the School District of Philadelphia. The LSAT retake was not so great, and there is no point doing a third in December given my current work commitments. I am applying ED as well. I really doubt this changes my position given my numbers and the rigidity of admissions standards, especially within the T14.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:23 pm

whybother wrote:Any point of applying if I have a 162/3.5? I have a graduate degree and significant work experience, which also translated in a solid personal statement. I am from Philadelphia; I have lived and worked here my entire life. I have a strong optional 5 year plan that incorporates the interdisciplinary focus and Graduate School of Education dual degree opportunity to my future career plans for special education law and the School District of Philadelphia. The LSAT retake was not so great, and there is no point doing a third in December given my current work commitments. I am applying ED as well. I really doubt this changes my position given my numbers and the rigidity of admissions standards, especially within the T14.

Unless you're, a URM, no. Without crazy good softs, you don't have a shot without a 170+ LSAT.

User avatar
so_fetch
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby so_fetch » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:11 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
whybother wrote:Any point of applying if I have a 162/3.5? I have a graduate degree and significant work experience, which also translated in a solid personal statement. I am from Philadelphia; I have lived and worked here my entire life. I have a strong optional 5 year plan that incorporates the interdisciplinary focus and Graduate School of Education dual degree opportunity to my future career plans for special education law and the School District of Philadelphia. The LSAT retake was not so great, and there is no point doing a third in December given my current work commitments. I am applying ED as well. I really doubt this changes my position given my numbers and the rigidity of admissions standards, especially within the T14.

Unless you're, a URM, no. Without crazy good softs, you don't have a shot without a 170+ LSAT.


Heavenwood, I think this forum works well because people give frank, honest opinions.. but I disagree with your assertion that unless you are an URM and/or have crazy good softs, you "don't have a shot" with below 170. Penn's 25% LSAT is 166. How can you say you don't have a shot if you are under 170? Just offering my frank , honest opinion. And I have a 169 LSAT score so I am admittedly probably a little biased.

Also, I think that whybother does have really good softs for Penn specifically. And just in general. This sounds like the exact situation that ED is intended for. It's your first choice, your interests and goals fit perfectly with what the school offers, you are from the area, and... maybe you would not get in without the ED commitment. So maybe you will get rejected or waitlisted, who knows. But let the admissions committee make that decision for you, not people on TLS. Apply to a wide range of schools and apply to Penn as ED. It's gonna cost you just around $100 to apply, assuming you do not have a fee waiver.

I see this is your first post... as you can see, I have not posted too much either, but I have read a lot on TLS. Again no offense to heavenwood... he/she is just giving their opinion... but do not get too wrapped up with what people tell you here. You can get a ton of really useful info here, but at the end of the day it's your life and your decisions so don't be afraid to NOT follow what someone here tells you. Including what I am saying too

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:17 pm

so_fetch wrote:Heavenwood, I think this forum works well because people give frank, honest opinions.. but I disagree with your assertion that unless you are an URM and/or have crazy good softs, you "don't have a shot" with below 170. Penn's 25% LSAT is 166. How can you say you don't have a shot if you are under 170? Just offering my frank , honest opinion. And I have a 169 LSAT score so I am admittedly probably a little biased.

Heavenwood means that with a 3.5 UGPA, the poster doesn't have a shot without a 170+ LSAT. The people who have Penn's 25%ile for the LSAT (166) are most likely around Penn's 75%ile for GPA (~3.9 IIRC). If the other poster had your 3.9 then ED would have been made for him, however, that is not the case.

User avatar
so_fetch
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby so_fetch » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:
so_fetch wrote:Heavenwood, I think this forum works well because people give frank, honest opinions.. but I disagree with your assertion that unless you are an URM and/or have crazy good softs, you "don't have a shot" with below 170. Penn's 25% LSAT is 166. How can you say you don't have a shot if you are under 170? Just offering my frank , honest opinion. And I have a 169 LSAT score so I am admittedly probably a little biased.

Also, I think that whybother does have really good softs for Penn specifically. And just in general. This sounds like the exact situation that ED is intended for. It's your first choice, your interests and goals fit perfectly with what the school offers, you are from the area, and... maybe you would not get in without the ED commitment. So maybe you will get rejected or waitlisted, who knows. But let the admissions committee make that decision for you, not people on TLS. Apply to a wide range of schools and apply to Penn as ED. It's gonna cost you just around $100 to apply, assuming you do not have a fee waiver.

I see this is your first post... as you can see, I have not posted too much either, but I have read a lot on TLS. Again no offense to heavenwood... he/she is just giving their opinion... but do not get too wrapped up with what people tell you here. You can get a ton of really useful info here, but at the end of the day it's your life and your decisions so don't be afraid to NOT follow what someone here tells you. Including what I am saying too

He means that with a 3.5 UGPA, the poster doesn't have a shot with a <170 LSAT.


=) I probably subconsciously interpreted what he said the wrong way (i.e. no one <170 has a shot) because I have an inferiority complex about my 169. Anyway.. my message to whybother is still "GO FOR IT!!"

It is a hell of a reach, but "hey, it could happen (mc worldddd)" . Also - so cliche but true - you don't want to live the rest of your life wondering. It's called a REACH. You need a few! It's just $100 bucks and with your ties to the area and work experience/goals, if (potentially very large if) they are going to accept a non-URM with a relatively low GPA and relatively low LSAT, it could very well be you. At least that is what I tell myself about my LSAT and Harvard.

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:27 pm

so_fetch wrote:=) I probably subconsciously interpreted what he said the wrong way (i.e. no one <170 has a shot) because I have an inferiority complex about my 169. Anyway.. my message to whybother is still "GO FOR IT!!"

It is a hell of a reach, but "hey, it could happen (mc worldddd)" . Also - so cliche but true - you don't want to live the rest of your life wondering. It's called a REACH. You need a few! It's just $100 bucks and with your ties to the area and work experience/goals, if (potentially very large if) they are going to accept a non-URM with a relatively low GPA and relatively low LSAT, it could very well be you. At least that is what I tell myself about my LSAT and Harvard.

I do agree that it's good to have reaches, especially in this (hopefully) easier cycle but it's important to be realistic and advise retake if the poster really wants Penn.

User avatar
MiamiOxford
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:50 am

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby MiamiOxford » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:31 pm

Not to take over the thread... But why are people referring to this cycle as "hopefully easier?" Anything to give me hope, just curious..

iamrobk
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby iamrobk » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:32 pm

MiamiOxford wrote:Not to take over the thread... But why are people referring to this cycle as "hopefully easier?" Anything to give me hope, just curious..

Apps and LSAT's are down >15% from last year.

User avatar
DonnaDraper
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:30 am

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby DonnaDraper » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:34 pm

iamrobk wrote:
MiamiOxford wrote:Not to take over the thread... But why are people referring to this cycle as "hopefully easier?" Anything to give me hope, just curious..

Apps and LSAT's are down >15% from last year.


There are threads about LSAT takers being down, but is there definite info on apps?

User avatar
so_fetch
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby so_fetch » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:35 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:
so_fetch wrote:=) I probably subconsciously interpreted what he said the wrong way (i.e. no one <170 has a shot) because I have an inferiority complex about my 169. Anyway.. my message to whybother is still "GO FOR IT!!"

It is a hell of a reach, but "hey, it could happen (mc worldddd)" . Also - so cliche but true - you don't want to live the rest of your life wondering. It's called a REACH. You need a few! It's just $100 bucks and with your ties to the area and work experience/goals, if (potentially very large if) they are going to accept a non-URM with a relatively low GPA and relatively low LSAT, it could very well be you. At least that is what I tell myself about my LSAT and Harvard.

I do agree that it's good to have reaches, especially in this (hopefully) easier cycle but it's important to be realistic and advise retake if the poster really wants Penn.


Agreed. But if a retake isn't gonna happen and he/she is applying this cycle no matter what, I see no harm in Penn ED.

Whybother- good luck with everything. I think we are kind of similar- as someone who also has work experience that relates to what I want to do in my law career, I am hopefully optimistic (maybe too optimistic, some would say?) about the impact it has on my applications/chances. I hope I am right about that and we both end up somewhere great.

User avatar
Cornelius
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:40 pm

DonnaDraper wrote:
iamrobk wrote:
MiamiOxford wrote:Not to take over the thread... But why are people referring to this cycle as "hopefully easier?" Anything to give me hope, just curious..

Apps and LSAT's are down >15% from last year.


There are threads about LSAT takers being down, but is there definite info on apps?

Analysis on LSN indicates yes (though that would come with a lot of caveats).

User avatar
Strange
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:23 am

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Strange » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:43 pm

whybother wrote:Any point of applying if I have a 162/3.5? I have a graduate degree and significant work experience, which also translated in a solid personal statement. I am from Philadelphia; I have lived and worked here my entire life. I have a strong optional 5 year plan that incorporates the interdisciplinary focus and Graduate School of Education dual degree opportunity to my future career plans for special education law and the School District of Philadelphia. The LSAT retake was not so great, and there is no point doing a third in December given my current work commitments. I am applying ED as well. I really doubt this changes my position given my numbers and the rigidity of admissions standards, especially within the T14.


You have no chance but you have a great shot at Nova and Temple, both of which place very well in Philly

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:44 pm

Cornelius wrote:
DonnaDraper wrote:
iamrobk wrote:
MiamiOxford wrote:Not to take over the thread... But why are people referring to this cycle as "hopefully easier?" Anything to give me hope, just curious..

Apps and LSAT's are down >15% from last year.


There are threads about LSAT takers being down, but is there definite info on apps?

Analysis on LSN indicates yes (though that would come with a lot of caveats).

I've used the data mining method that admisionquestion used in the NYU thread to get a rough estimate of the number of people who have applied to certain t14 schools up to this point and the LSN sample seems to show that most schools have seen a somewhat significant decrease (the only school that has maintained the number of applicants and kept their median/mean GPA and LSAT is northwestern and I assume that has to do with their new ED full ride program this year). Of course as Cornelius pointed out, there are a lot of caveats--people not updating LSN until the end of the cycle/LSN not being a representative sample, etc.

ETA: I'm carefully optimistic this year.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:48 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:
so_fetch wrote:Heavenwood, I think this forum works well because people give frank, honest opinions.. but I disagree with your assertion that unless you are an URM and/or have crazy good softs, you "don't have a shot" with below 170. Penn's 25% LSAT is 166. How can you say you don't have a shot if you are under 170? Just offering my frank , honest opinion. And I have a 169 LSAT score so I am admittedly probably a little biased.

Heavenwood means that with a 3.5 UGPA, the poster doesn't have a shot without a 170+ LSAT. The people who have Penn's 25%ile for the LSAT (166) are most likely around Penn's 75%ile for GPA (~3.9 IIRC). If the other poster had your 3.9 then ED would have been made for him, however, that is not the case.

Bingo. Being below both medians is almost a sure death sentence.

User avatar
Cornelius
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:49 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:I've used the data mining method that admisionquestion used in the NYU thread to get a rough estimate of the number of people who have applied to certain t14 schools up to this point and the LSN sample seems to show that most schools have seen a somewhat significant decrease (the only school that has maintained the number of applicants and kept their median/mean GPA and LSAT is northwestern and I assume that has to do with their new ED full ride program this year). Of course as Cornelius pointed out, there are a lot of caveats--people not updating LSN until the end of the cycle/LSN not being a representative sample, etc.

ETA: I'm carefully optimistic this year.

Can you link me to that data mining method post? I'm curious.

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:55 pm

Cornelius wrote:Can you link me to that data mining method post? I'm curious.

I PM'd him/her about it.

The method is pretty straightforward. Just sort applicants by sent date, then copy and paste all the applicants from this year and last year on LSN to excel. Then calculate =average(x,y), =median(x,y)

I tried to adjust for people who have not updated LSN by only using data points from last cycle which were marked ~09/15/2010 to 11/02/11 (the date when I ran the analysis) and, for this cycle, I used every user who had a GPA and LSAT on LSN up to 11/02/11. I assumed this would allow for more data points for this cycle but there was a range of anywhere from ~10% to ~50% fewer applicants for the t14 schools I did, with the exception being Northwestern.

User avatar
Cornelius
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Can you link me to that data mining method post? I'm curious.

I PM'd him/her about it.

The method is pretty straightforward. Just sort applicants by sent date, then copy and paste all the applicants from this year and last year on LSN to excel. Then calculate =average(x,y), =median(x,y)

I tried to adjust for people who have not updated LSN by only using data points from last cycle which were marked ~09/15/2010 to 11/02/11 (the date when I ran the analysis) and, for this cycle, I used every user who had a GPA and LSAT on LSN up to 11/02/11. I assumed this would allow for more data points for this cycle but there was a range of anywhere from ~10% to ~50% fewer applicants for the t14 schools I did, with the exception being Northwestern.

Gotcha. My only worry with that would be people who keep track and update their profile completely at the end of the cycle or keep their info hidden until the end of the cycle, meaning the number of applicants for this year is understated, but I don't think that would be many people.

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:02 pm

Cornelius wrote:Gotcha. My only worry with that would be people who keep track and update their profile completely at the end of the cycle or keep their info hidden until the end of the cycle, meaning the number of applicants for this year is understated, but I don't think that would be many people.

Yup, one of the many caveats to the method. That's why I won't really convinced either until I get more admit packets in my hand. :D

User avatar
Cornelius
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Cornelius » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:04 pm

Hopefully2012 wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Gotcha. My only worry with that would be people who keep track and update their profile completely at the end of the cycle or keep their info hidden until the end of the cycle, meaning the number of applicants for this year is understated, but I don't think that would be many people.

Yup, one of the many caveats to the method. That's why I won't really convinced either until I get more admit packets in my hand. :D

As of yesterday's date, there's only 2 less applicants at Penn this year. Of course, that doesn't count the huge number of people with a blank sent date last year.

User avatar
Hopefully2012
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Re: Penn c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle)

Postby Hopefully2012 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Interesting. I don't think I looked up Penn (I'm at work and all this stuff is on my home computer). I guess, using this metric, Penn doesn't look too much less competitive. Did you do the median/mean lsat and gpa of this year compared to last year. Would be interesting to see as well.




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”