Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
Schola
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:55 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Schola » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:25 pm

MyLegendLives wrote:
Schola wrote:
Curious1 wrote:
MumofCad wrote:Anyone know what last year's complete email said? Because this one says they don't notify applicants of the decision by phone. This would be a change, maybe no KB2s? Just an email? It also doesn't mention interviews prior to a decision, maybe no KB anythings? Has anyone asked at one of the recruiting sessions?


Recruiting session specifically said there WILL be phone interviews.

I think the email was talking about "decisions" of whether or not to give you an interview--THOSE are notified by email.

Also I almost got a heart attack when I saw the email...


You are almost surely right that the email "decisions" are for the interview, but I am not sure if the email could have been more ambiguous if HLS tried. In fact, if one didn't know about the phone interviews, one would have no grounds on which to interpret it as meaning that the future "decision email" will be an invitation for a phone interview.

This all makes me wonder if there might be a small change in their policy. If you have someone w/ a 4.0/180/Rhodes Scholarship, it seems to me that it owuld be a clear waste of resources to have a dean talk to the person for 10 minutes since they have basically decided that the person will get it. Thus I think it is possible that they might have decided that it is only worth the time to interview candidates for whom the interview might actually have some influence on the decision.



I spoke to KB two weeks ago. She was very clear in saying that every admitted applicant MUST have an interview.


Admitting that you are right, let me just say that the fact that the interview has little influence on the actual outcome of the admissions process means that it is a huge waste of resources. Let's set KB gives 1000 interviews (conservative end of 1000-1200) at 10 minutes a piece, back to back, with no time between interviews. 1000 x 10 = 10000 minutes. 10000/60= 166.667 hours. That's over 4 full weeks that the dean spends only giving interviews that don't really matter anyway! Plus you probably need a secretary to dial up the next number so KB can transition between the interviews as quickly as possible. So you're paying 2 people (and one is a dean!) a month's salary each in order to project the illusion that the process is highly "personalized" even though everyone knows that Harvard leans heavily upon numbers anyway?

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:32 pm

Admitting that you are right, let me just say that the fact that the interview has little influence on the actual outcome of the admissions process means that it is a huge waste of resources. Let's set KB gives 1000 interviews (conservative end of 1000-1200) at 10 minutes a piece, back to back, with no time between interviews. 1000 x 10 = 10000 minutes. 10000/60= 166.667 hours. That's over 4 full weeks that the dean spends only giving interviews that don't really matter anyway! Plus you probably need a secretary to dial up the next number so KB can transition between the interviews as quickly as possible. So you're paying 2 people (and one is a dean!) a month's salary each in order to project the illusion that the process is highly "personalized" even though everyone knows that Harvard leans heavily upon numbers anyway?


Illusions matter. Also they don't NEVER make a difference. A dude with a 4.0/180 can have a really awkward/creepy interview and be rejected, and a dude with a 3.6/173 could wow her with a story of how he rescued genocide victims in East Timor.

User avatar
annyong
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:17 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby annyong » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:56 pm

I don't think it's fair to say they're not a factor. From the original post: "1000-1200 JR1's go out every year, and approximately 800 JR2's go out every year." Assuming that 1200 JR1s are given and only 800 JR2s are given, that means that 400, or roughly 1/3rd of the original interviewers did not receive an acceptance. I don't think that's a trivial number.

Schola
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:55 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Schola » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:00 pm

annyong wrote:I don't think it's fair to say they're not a factor. From the original post: "1000-1200 JR1's go out every year, and approximately 800 JR2's go out every year." Assuming that 1200 JR1s are given and only 800 JR2s are given, that means that 400, or roughly 1/3rd of the original interviewers did not receive an acceptance. I don't think that's a trivial number.


But the question is how many of those 400 would have been rejected if the interview never took place and how many of those 800 would have been accepted w/o the interview

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:05 pm

Schola wrote:
annyong wrote:I don't think it's fair to say they're not a factor. From the original post: "1000-1200 JR1's go out every year, and approximately 800 JR2's go out every year." Assuming that 1200 JR1s are given and only 800 JR2s are given, that means that 400, or roughly 1/3rd of the original interviewers did not receive an acceptance. I don't think that's a trivial number.


But the question is how many of those 400 would have been rejected if the interview never took place and how many of those 800 would have been accepted w/o the interview


Wait...who cares? These are the rules of the game. We're already in the middle of playing. Why debate the rules?

Schola
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:55 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Schola » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:08 pm

Curious1 wrote:
Schola wrote:
annyong wrote:I don't think it's fair to say they're not a factor. From the original post: "1000-1200 JR1's go out every year, and approximately 800 JR2's go out every year." Assuming that 1200 JR1s are given and only 800 JR2s are given, that means that 400, or roughly 1/3rd of the original interviewers did not receive an acceptance. I don't think that's a trivial number.


But the question is how many of those 400 would have been rejected if the interview never took place and how many of those 800 would have been accepted w/o the interview


Wait...who cares? These are the rules of the game. We're already in the middle of playing. Why debate the rules?


B/c it's more interesting than asking day after day, week after week when the KB1s will come out?

User avatar
fingerscrossedxx
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby fingerscrossedxx » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:10 pm

MumofCad wrote:
Sh@keNb@ke wrote:If I submitted on 10/16 any chance I might hear back by first round or is that a pipe dream?


You'll be in the first round. FWIW, they seemed to interview ALOT of URMs early, but didn't give many (if any) decisions in the first found of admits. There was alot of speculation as to why last year. So don't be surprised or disappointed if you get an early KB1, but not a per-Thanksgiving KB2. It doesn't mean as much for URMs to not get that quick decision after the first interview.


Good to know! I would have felt like they were just being nice by rejecting me later than everyone else if I got the KB1 and then watched everyone on TLS get the KB2s while I sat there refreshing my email...
Last edited by fingerscrossedxx on Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:13 pm

B/c it's more interesting than asking day after day, week after week when the KB1s will come out?


Well as long as it's an academic discussion and not whining I can get in.

In terms of "wasting" resources...she's the dean of admissions...what else do you think she should be doing with that month if not getting to know the candidates better? It's really no different than reading a PS or looking at any other kind of soft. If it was truly a straight up numbers game, a computer would make all the decisions, and far far fewer people would apply.

MumofCad
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby MumofCad » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:34 pm

People apply with no hope because its Harvard, and if you are anywhere near the numbers you apply because you might be that 1 or 2 people a year that get in that just shouldn't. Is it likely? Absolutely not. But most want to at least know than wonder. Odds are if you are that 1 or 2, it had nothing to do with your 10 minute interview. They do it for the sake of perception, which is fine and has value in itself. Frankly, I don't care too much but was thinking that maybe they had done away with Round 2 calls and were just going to email out results, which would make sense to me since they are a tad behind their usual schedule.

I think there is very little that can be said in 10 minutes to destroy your chances, unless you reply, "I don't know" to basic questions like Why Harvard. I'm sure some do that, but I would think that out of those 1200 interviews, the 400 that are potentially getting WL'd or held were probably borderline anyhow for various reasons (not just numbers, could have felony issues, etc.). Judging from the way in which the interviews are ordered and the fact that acceptance is near 100% for those getting a pre-Thanksgiving one, the indication would be that it might be a tie-breaker for some, but its largely pre-determined which category you fall into before the call.

I'm not sure the interviews matter much (if at all for many candidates). This example is overstating its importance IMO, by comparing super creepy, socially awkward 180/4.0 (many of which will be very successful attorneys that graduated from HLS) and those with a 3.6/173 getting in. It would not be based on the interview anyhow, but the record revealed by their full application. Assuming otherwise would be of paramount ridiculousness...no way should anyone, no matter how wonderful of interviewer, assume that they can distill more information about you in a 10 minute phone call than holding a transcript, resume, LORs and standardized test that reveals at least 5 years of your life (especially with rote questions like "why law, why Harvard, etc."). That would be ludicrous. Harvard knows better. I'd think just going on numbers would be more personalized than making that assumption.
Last edited by MumofCad on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bleylaw
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby bleylaw » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:35 pm

Curious1 wrote:
B/c it's more interesting than asking day after day, week after week when the KB1s will come out?


Well as long as it's an academic discussion and not whining I can get in.

In terms of "wasting" resources...she's the dean of admissions...what else do you think she should be doing with that month if not getting to know the candidates better? It's really no different than reading a PS or looking at any other kind of soft. If it was truly a straight up numbers game, a computer would make all the decisions, and far far fewer people would apply.


when did they start doing the phone interviews? when you look back not that long ago harvard was ranked like third behind stanford, something im sure they weren't okay with! they probably started these to make the school as a whole look better, to shed the "factory" image and maybe get their all-important ranking up!

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:42 pm

MumofCad wrote:People apply with no hope because its Harvard, and if you are anywhere near the numbers you apply because you might be that 1 or 2 people a year that get in that just shouldn't. Is it likely? Absolutely not. But most want to at least know than wonder. Odds are if you are that 1 or 2, it had nothing to do with your 10 minute interview. They do it for the sake of perception, which is fine and has value in itself. Frankly, I don't care too much but was thinking that maybe they had done away with Round 2 calls and were just going to email out results, which would make sense to me since they are a tad behind their usual schedule.

I think there is very little that can be said in 10 minutes to destroy your chances, unless you reply, "I don't know" to basic questions like Why Harvard. I'm sure some do that, but I would think that out of those 1200 interviews, the 400 that are potentially getting WL'd or held were probably borderline anyhow for various reasons (not just numbers, could have felony issues, etc.). Judging from the way in which the interviews are ordered and the fact that acceptance is near 100% for those getting a pre-Thanksgiving one, the indication would be that it might be a tie-breaker for some, but its largely pre-determined which category you fall into before the call.

I'm not sure the interviews matter much (if at all for many candidates). This example is overstating its importance IMO, by comparing super creepy, socially awkward 180/4.0 (many of which will be very successful attorneys that graduated from HLS) and those with a 3.6/173 getting in. It would not be based on the interview anyhow, but the record revealed by their full application. Assuming otherwise would be of paramount ridiculousness...no way should anyone, no matter how wonderful of interviewer, assume that they can distill more information about you in a 10 minute phone call than holding a transcript, resume, LORs and standardized test that reveals at least 5 years of your life (especially with rote questions like "why law, why Harvard, etc."). That would be ludicrous. Harvard knows better. I'd think just going on numbers would be more personalized than making that assumption.


And yet this is exactly what law firms during callbacks. I believe if you get past the screener (based on grades/resume) then it all comes down to how you come across in the interview. Perhaps the KB1s are a similar situation. Granted she won't be able to see you or speak to you for a long time, but how she feels about you will definitely be a factor if you're neither an auto-admit nor an auto-reject.

User avatar
LaCumparsita
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 11:54 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby LaCumparsita » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:57 pm

So I went complete on the 13th of October but I only received a complete email today... does this mean anything?

User avatar
elibrarian
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby elibrarian » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:06 pm

LaCumparsita wrote:So I went complete on the 13th of October but I only received a complete email today... does this mean anything?


No. Look back a few pages, that happened to a lot of us.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Samara » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:46 pm

App submitted. Waiting for the rejection.

User avatar
rotaxkarter
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:24 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby rotaxkarter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:45 pm

rotaxkarter wrote:
MumofCad wrote:Well I'm going optimistic now and taking tomorrow in the pool for the first invites.


Double booking my Oct 28th prediction? :P


Think we've lost this one...

User avatar
Hawkeye Pierce
Posts: 1261
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:18 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:47 pm

Every time someone posts in here, I think that they got a JR1 D:

MumofCad
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby MumofCad » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:48 pm

rotaxkarter wrote:
rotaxkarter wrote:
MumofCad wrote:Well I'm going optimistic now and taking tomorrow in the pool for the first invites.


Double booking my Oct 28th prediction? :P


Think we've lost this one...


Well it was wishful thinking from the start, but would have been nice. I guess this can't go on indefinitely, but....I'm ready for the suspense to end.

Its odd how their website hasn't been updated. Rubenstein is still all over it. The blog hasn't been updated either.

User avatar
icedflames
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby icedflames » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:10 pm

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:Every time someone posts in here, I think that they got a JR1 D:


+1934801948015

edit: if my post has the same effect, i apologize in advance HP

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Yes to the above. It seems that, as someone else said earlier, that KB and her posse are out flogging the school around the country and won't be back till the first week in November. I wouldn't think she gets to read that many apps on the road but maybe she's already picked out some potential interviewees and will call them up as soon as she gets back.

cj03
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby cj03 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:42 pm

Went UR today...

User avatar
amc987
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby amc987 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Just submitted my app yesterday. About how long it takes from submission to completion if all of my required forms have been submitted??

User avatar
sdwhodat
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby sdwhodat » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:33 pm

MumofCad wrote:
rotaxkarter wrote:
rotaxkarter wrote:
MumofCad wrote:Well I'm going optimistic now and taking tomorrow in the pool for the first invites.


Double booking my Oct 28th prediction? :P


Think we've lost this one...


Well it was wishful thinking from the start, but would have been nice. I guess this can't go on indefinitely, but....I'm ready for the suspense to end.

Its odd how their website hasn't been updated. Rubenstein is still all over it. The blog hasn't been updated either.


Maybe the zombie apocalypse has begun in Cambridge...

jim-green
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby jim-green » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 am

Any idea what new job JR moved to?

User avatar
euskadi
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby euskadi » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:33 pm

Just submitted. Hoping I'm in early enough to be a part of the first batch of interviews (if I'm lucky enough to get an interview at all).

Curious1
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Curious1 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:34 pm

jim-green wrote:Any idea what new job JR moved to?


Been wondering that myself, asked a few HLS students and they said they didn't know.




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: curry1, JosefK, okf731 and 15 guests