Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

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thederangedwang
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:48 am

yeah, I saw that and it is slightly weird since the lsat should make up for the low gpa. But granted, the gpa is below median.

What I mean is, there has not been a person who has been rejected that has median lsat and gpa yet. All those who have been rejected, on both tls and lsn, have at least 1 indicator (lsat, gpa) below median.

But yeah, the guy you are referring to probably had something else wrong with his app.

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:50 am

True true.

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LawGuy321
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby LawGuy321 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:04 pm

seanPtheB wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:I was discussing this with a friend of mine.

Not to offend anyone but cases where someone with great numbers (>3.8 and >174) gets rejected from H/Y/S and gets accepted to CCN down or MVP down with a good scholarship COULD be an indicator that the their application was not spectacular/great. (the whole numbers are not everything for law school debate)

If I was an adcomm for Virginia and I saw an applicant with great numbers but not so great an application, I could conclude that he/she would likely not get into H/Y/S. But in order to help my stats and get a fairly good applicant, I would accept that applicant with a scholarship knowing I will be competing with other T7-T10 (maybe T4-T10) schools. Adcomms know what makes a great app and although not every school has the same requirements they can estimate where a candidate would get accepted, thats why some schools YP.

I am not saying that those who didn't get into Harvard did not have well-rounded or great applications, Raj is a case that kinda disproves the speculation. It was just something that was thrown around at the dinner table. You are all free to correct me if I am wrong.

I really do wish schools could tell you what was wrong with your app when you get rejected especially when people have great numbers (i know is unfeasible though). The lack of info does not help applicants if they choose to reapply.

Again this is all SPECULATION...something we discussed as we waited for our ding email (that didn't come to our surprise).


No it does not. Raj has a high GPA but a (relatively) low lsat. It is not at all surprising Raj got rejected from HLS but accepted at SLS (where there is heavy emphasis on GPA). So far, imho, the only applicant that has been rejected so far that is somewhat surprising is Hawkeye...other than that, I really see no surprises so far.


Deranged, I'm assuming you're just talking about people on TLS? Beause there's also a 176/3.81 on lsn that was dinged. They could of course have something else very detrimental to their app (and really they probably do).


I agree. It might have been a combo of very weak softs, maybe a bad LOR, no WE, horrible/awkward interview, poorly written essay with errors...and also KB seems to be really emphasizing GPA this year, huh? 3.81 is good but it's below the median. Everyone who has had a 3.9x and at least a 173 has been accepted so far on LSN.

Also, all of these numbers are self-reported too, so who knows?

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Elendil
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Elendil » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:10 pm

LawGuy321 wrote:Everyone who has had a 3.9x and at least a 173 has been accepted so far on LSN.



This is what keeps me optimistic, despite hearing nothing for almost a month...

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sharktankdean
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:24 pm

LawGuy321 wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:I was discussing this with a friend of mine.

Not to offend anyone but cases where someone with great numbers (>3.8 and >174) gets rejected from H/Y/S and gets accepted to CCN down or MVP down with a good scholarship COULD be an indicator that the their application was not spectacular/great. (the whole numbers are not everything for law school debate)

If I was an adcomm for Virginia and I saw an applicant with great numbers but not so great an application, I could conclude that he/she would likely not get into H/Y/S. But in order to help my stats and get a fairly good applicant, I would accept that applicant with a scholarship knowing I will be competing with other T7-T10 (maybe T4-T10) schools. Adcomms know what makes a great app and although not every school has the same requirements they can estimate where a candidate would get accepted, thats why some schools YP.

I am not saying that those who didn't get into Harvard did not have well-rounded or great applications, Raj is a case that kinda disproves the speculation. It was just something that was thrown around at the dinner table. You are all free to correct me if I am wrong.

I really do wish schools could tell you what was wrong with your app when you get rejected especially when people have great numbers (i know is unfeasible though). The lack of info does not help applicants if they choose to reapply.

Again this is all SPECULATION...something we discussed as we waited for our ding email (that didn't come to our surprise).


No it does not. Raj has a high GPA but a (relatively) low lsat. It is not at all surprising Raj got rejected from HLS but accepted at SLS (where there is heavy emphasis on GPA). So far, imho, the only applicant that has been rejected so far that is somewhat surprising is Hawkeye...other than that, I really see no surprises so far.


Deranged, I'm assuming you're just talking about people on TLS? Beause there's also a 176/3.81 on lsn that was dinged. They could of course have something else very detrimental to their app (and really they probably do).


I agree. It might have been a combo of very weak softs, maybe a bad LOR, no WE, horrible/awkward interview, poorly written essay with errors...and also KB seems to be really emphasizing GPA this year, huh? 3.81 is good but it's below the median. Everyone who has had a 3.9x and at least a 173 has been accepted so far on LSN.

Also, all of these numbers are self-reported too, so who knows?




I really agree with this. Looking at the LSN graph she seems to be in LOVE with her 3.9's this year. Even when you look at the URMs on TLS and LSN most ( or a good amount) of those who got in had >3.87 or so. This may be why the International student (i'm still praying for you) with a 179 didn't get a KB2 yet, she may be focusing on GPAs right now.

Honestly after the the next wave of rejections go out and then the holds ( i honestly think that blog post was premature), we might see an increase in KB1's and Kb2's for people with > 3.8s and splitters . The 3.9's have to end some time. Our time will come!!!
Last edited by sharktankdean on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aqualung
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Aqualung » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:29 pm

Just checking in. I was rejected a few days ago (January 6th). It happened to be my birthday. Oh well. Good luck to everyone else. Stats in profile.

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Take Two
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Take Two » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:35 pm

Aqualung wrote:Just checking in. I was rejected a few days ago (January 6th). It happened to be my birthday. Oh well. Good luck to everyone else. Stats in profile.


sorry, thats so tough! :cry:

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mickeyD
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby mickeyD » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:18 pm

sharktankdean wrote:Honestly after the the next wave of rejections go out and then the holds ( i honestly think that blog post was premature), we might see an increase in KB1's and Kb2's for people with > 3.8s and splitters . The 3.9's have to end some time. Our time will come!!!


I agree. I think they either sent out very few holds or none at all. I think Monday will bring a bigger wave of rejections and then we'll start seeing some holds on TLS.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:31 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:Can someone post what the rejection email says? I want to prepare myself emotionally.


Harvard wrote:Dear Tiago Splitter:

I am sorry to report that, after full and careful consideration, the Admissions Committee has denied your application for admission to Harvard Law School. During this admission season, over 6,000 candidates are applying for spots in an entering class that is limited to 560 students. A large majority of these applicants have demonstrated strong academic preparation for law school and the ability to contribute significantly to the quality of our student body. As a result, we must select a class that we believe to be the very best from an outstanding pool and deny admission to many candidates whom we would like to have at Harvard.



Denials of admission are neither negative estimates of potential for the study of law nor absolute assessments of candidates' achievements. Rather, they are the inevitable result of many attractive candidates for comparatively few spaces in our class.



Thank you for your interest in Harvard Law School, and best wishes for your education and career plans.



Sincerely,

Karen Buttenbaum

Director of Admissions

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Elendil
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Elendil » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:35 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:Can someone post what the rejection email says? I want to prepare myself emotionally.


Harvard wrote:Dear Tiago Splitter:

I am sorry to report that, after full and careful consideration, the Admissions Committee has denied your application for admission to Harvard Law School. During this admission season, over 6,000 candidates are applying for spots in an entering class that is limited to 560 students. A large majority of these applicants have demonstrated strong academic preparation for law school and the ability to contribute significantly to the quality of our student body. As a result, we must select a class that we believe to be the very best from an outstanding pool and deny admission to many candidates whom we would like to have at Harvard.



Denials of admission are neither negative estimates of potential for the study of law nor absolute assessments of candidates' achievements. Rather, they are the inevitable result of many attractive candidates for comparatively few spaces in our class.



Thank you for your interest in Harvard Law School, and best wishes for your education and career plans.



Sincerely,

Karen Buttenbaum

Director of Admissions


Thanks for posting, Tiago... this should also quell those concerns about HLS cutting class size this year...

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:35 pm

Elendil wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:Can someone post what the rejection email says? I want to prepare myself emotionally.


Harvard wrote:Dear Tiago Splitter:

I am sorry to report that, after full and careful consideration, the Admissions Committee has denied your application for admission to Harvard Law School. During this admission season, over 6,000 candidates are applying for spots in an entering class that is limited to 560 students. A large majority of these applicants have demonstrated strong academic preparation for law school and the ability to contribute significantly to the quality of our student body. As a result, we must select a class that we believe to be the very best from an outstanding pool and deny admission to many candidates whom we would like to have at Harvard.



Denials of admission are neither negative estimates of potential for the study of law nor absolute assessments of candidates' achievements. Rather, they are the inevitable result of many attractive candidates for comparatively few spaces in our class.



Thank you for your interest in Harvard Law School, and best wishes for your education and career plans.



Sincerely,

Karen Buttenbaum

Director of Admissions


Thanks for posting, Tiago... this should also quell those concerns about HLS cutting class size this year...


+1 This is good to hear, except it sucks we had to find out in the form of a ding to Tiago.

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:40 pm

LawGuy321 wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:I was discussing this with a friend of mine.

Not to offend anyone but cases where someone with great numbers (>3.8 and >174) gets rejected from H/Y/S and gets accepted to CCN down or MVP down with a good scholarship COULD be an indicator that the their application was not spectacular/great. (the whole numbers are not everything for law school debate)

If I was an adcomm for Virginia and I saw an applicant with great numbers but not so great an application, I could conclude that he/she would likely not get into H/Y/S. But in order to help my stats and get a fairly good applicant, I would accept that applicant with a scholarship knowing I will be competing with other T7-T10 (maybe T4-T10) schools. Adcomms know what makes a great app and although not every school has the same requirements they can estimate where a candidate would get accepted, thats why some schools YP.

I am not saying that those who didn't get into Harvard did not have well-rounded or great applications, Raj is a case that kinda disproves the speculation. It was just something that was thrown around at the dinner table. You are all free to correct me if I am wrong.

I really do wish schools could tell you what was wrong with your app when you get rejected especially when people have great numbers (i know is unfeasible though). The lack of info does not help applicants if they choose to reapply.

Again this is all SPECULATION...something we discussed as we waited for our ding email (that didn't come to our surprise).


No it does not. Raj has a high GPA but a (relatively) low lsat. It is not at all surprising Raj got rejected from HLS but accepted at SLS (where there is heavy emphasis on GPA). So far, imho, the only applicant that has been rejected so far that is somewhat surprising is Hawkeye...other than that, I really see no surprises so far.


Deranged, I'm assuming you're just talking about people on TLS? Beause there's also a 176/3.81 on lsn that was dinged. They could of course have something else very detrimental to their app (and really they probably do).


I agree. It might have been a combo of very weak softs, maybe a bad LOR, no WE, horrible/awkward interview, poorly written essay with errors...and also KB seems to be really emphasizing GPA this year, huh? 3.81 is good but it's below the median. Everyone who has had a 3.9x and at least a 173 has been accepted so far on LSN.

Also, all of these numbers are self-reported too, so who knows?


Huh? There are 7 people on LSN who have 173's and 3.9+ who haven't been accepted. Four out of those seven applied on or before 10/27, so it appears as tho they have been passed up.

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euskadi
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby euskadi » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:59 pm

seanPtheB wrote:Huh? There are 7 people on LSN who have 173's and 3.9+ who haven't been accepted. Four out of those seven applied on or before 10/27, so it appears as tho they have been passed up.


It seems like Harvard is really looking for students who haven't come straight from UG and is correspondingly raising its standards for those not yet out of college. Though I haven't checked LSN, I'd wager that this is the case for the 173s/3.9+s. Were HP a year or two out of UG, I'd suppose that she'd have gotten in. With a near-median LSAT (172/3), I'd say 3.9 is what it takes to be in UG (with good softs) and get an early'ish KB2.

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:04 pm

euskadi wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:Huh? There are 7 people on LSN who have 173's and 3.9+ who haven't been accepted. Four out of those seven applied on or before 10/27, so it appears as tho they have been passed up.


It seems like Harvard is really looking for students who haven't come straight from UG and is correspondingly raising its standards for those not yet out of college. Though I haven't checked LSN, I'd wager that this is the case for the 173s/3.9+s. Were HP a year or two out of UG, I'd suppose that she'd have gotten in. With a near-median LSAT (172/3), I'd say 3.9 is what it takes to be in UG (with good softs) and get an early'ish KB2.


I definitely agree that it seems as though they are being somewhat more strict on people still in UG. Sucks for meeee

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby tomwatts » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:35 pm

The "not straight out of undergrad" is a trend that has been going on for a few years and is likely to continue. Very few people I meet in my section or elsewhere in the first-year class are straight from undergrad. (There are a few, but very few.)

snehpets
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby snehpets » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:44 pm

seanPtheB wrote:
euskadi wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:Huh? There are 7 people on LSN who have 173's and 3.9+ who haven't been accepted. Four out of those seven applied on or before 10/27, so it appears as tho they have been passed up.


It seems like Harvard is really looking for students who haven't come straight from UG and is correspondingly raising its standards for those not yet out of college. Though I haven't checked LSN, I'd wager that this is the case for the 173s/3.9+s. Were HP a year or two out of UG, I'd suppose that she'd have gotten in. With a near-median LSAT (172/3), I'd say 3.9 is what it takes to be in UG (with good softs) and get an early'ish KB2.


I definitely agree that it seems as though they are being somewhat more strict on people still in UG. Sucks for meeee


Yeah, I'm curious about this. I'm at the LSAT median and with my transcript update .01 above median in GPA (previously was at median) but below 3.9. Curious to see if I'll be flat out rejected this next week or if they're still retaining people that are at or above both medians but below 3.9 and in UG.

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PopTorts13
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby PopTorts13 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Does anyone know the biggest time gap between "under review" and KB1? Curious

addy11
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby addy11 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:54 pm

PopTorts13 wrote:Does anyone know the biggest time gap between "under review" and KB1? Curious


> 2 months.

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PopTorts13
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby PopTorts13 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:59 pm

addy11 wrote:
PopTorts13 wrote:Does anyone know the biggest time gap between "under review" and KB1? Curious


> 2 months.


I mean, presuming that there is no hold of course, ha ha. Thank you 8)

addy11
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby addy11 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:34 pm

PopTorts13 wrote:
addy11 wrote:
PopTorts13 wrote:Does anyone know the biggest time gap between "under review" and KB1? Curious


> 2 months.


I mean, presuming that there is no hold of course, ha ha. Thank you 8)


Yeah I think it was freestallion (and maybe one other person who had the same KB1/KB2 dates as her).

Also, I would expect more of a delay for you if you do land a KB1. You applied before the holiday break, and the cadence is bound to be different now that (presumably) a majority of spots have been offered.

thederangedwang
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:00 pm

tomwatts wrote:The "not straight out of undergrad" is a trend that has been going on for a few years and is likely to continue. Very few people I meet in my section or elsewhere in the first-year class are straight from undergrad. (There are a few, but very few.)

Hmmm...yeah KB mentioned this when she visited my school that work expierience is desirable but not neccessary...geez, I should be counting my lucky stars then!

Regardless, best of luck to all you guys!

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:26 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
tomwatts wrote:The "not straight out of undergrad" is a trend that has been going on for a few years and is likely to continue. Very few people I meet in my section or elsewhere in the first-year class are straight from undergrad. (There are a few, but very few.)

Hmmm...yeah KB mentioned this when she visited my school that work expierience is desirable but not neccessary...geez, I should be counting my lucky stars then!

Regardless, best of luck to all you guys!


Damn dunno why I didn't know that the percentage was so low.. I guess I was just assuming it'd be similar to other schools, which typically aren't incredibly low on UG's. Does anyone have any idea where we can find the exact percentage of the class of 2014 that is straight through from UG?

thederangedwang
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:28 pm

seanPtheB wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
tomwatts wrote:The "not straight out of undergrad" is a trend that has been going on for a few years and is likely to continue. Very few people I meet in my section or elsewhere in the first-year class are straight from undergrad. (There are a few, but very few.)

Hmmm...yeah KB mentioned this when she visited my school that work expierience is desirable but not neccessary...geez, I should be counting my lucky stars then!

Regardless, best of luck to all you guys!


Damn dunno why I didn't know that the percentage was so low.. I guess I was just assuming it'd be similar to other schools, which typically aren't incredibly low on UG's. Does anyone have any idea where we can find the exact percentage of the class of 2014 that is straight through from UG?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... ofile.html

it's 24%

seanPtheB
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
tomwatts wrote:The "not straight out of undergrad" is a trend that has been going on for a few years and is likely to continue. Very few people I meet in my section or elsewhere in the first-year class are straight from undergrad. (There are a few, but very few.)

Hmmm...yeah KB mentioned this when she visited my school that work expierience is desirable but not neccessary...geez, I should be counting my lucky stars then!

Regardless, best of luck to all you guys!


Damn dunno why I didn't know that the percentage was so low.. I guess I was just assuming it'd be similar to other schools, which typically aren't incredibly low on UG's. Does anyone have any idea where we can find the exact percentage of the class of 2014 that is straight through from UG?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... ofile.html

it's 24%


Ah ok thanks deranged, guess I could've put some effort into finding that myself.

So Harvard is lower than most of course, but not ridiculously lower. By the sound of TomWatts' post I was expecting something considerably lower than that.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015)

Postby Nulli Secundus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:18 pm

International re-applicant here, no news yet. Stats: No GPA, 170/176, good WE. (Sent 9/21, UR 10/13)

However, that blog post about holds seems a copy paste of last year's, just meant as a reminder about the meaning of the holds that will come in the coming weeks, not meant to state that they already sent the first batch of holds, I think. Because I find not one person posting on TLS being on the first wave of holds highly unlikely (I got held 01/28 last year, WL 04/29, Withdrew 04/29)

Withdrew last year since I figured the preparations needed to come over there would take longer than a summertime decision would allow, sent a LOCI explaining this and applied four months earlier this time around, yet it seems I am going towards that same, dark place or worse. I guess both being from a country not on the front rows when it comes to statistics regarding law school education and my age makes my attendance if admitted suspect in their eyes no matter what I write. Oh well.
Last edited by Nulli Secundus on Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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