Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015) Forum

[Byzantine]

Numbers twin here. I submitted two days earlier, but every other date was the same. I wonder when we'll get the love (or hate)!

I hope it's love. But I'm straight from undergrad, graduating in 3 years instead of 4, so we'll see where that puts me. Are you a few years out of UG?

Yeah, I've been out for 3 years. Got a MA and been working at a non-profit.

I'd think the early graduation could be a positive (Don't think it could be a negative)-- it could be read as showing you're a hard worker, etc... And dang it would be nice be graduated as a JD at the age of 24.

That would be nice. But as you bring up you get professional advantages to having work experience. I have an internship in Parliament under my belt and a part-time job, but in no way is that the same as having interviewed or having participated in a full-time job search. The lack of work experience is my number one concern for me.

Edit: Also, graduating from UG at Michigan on my 21st birthday is a sad, sad thing.

Is interning at Parliament equivalent in terms of prestige + experience to working on the hill? Cause that is a solid soft.

Bummer about 21. I turned 21 while studying abroad, so I didn't even notice it.

[captainwasabi09]

Is interning at Parliament equivalent in terms of prestige + experience to working on the hill? Cause that is a solid soft.

Bummer about 21. I turned 21 while studying abroad, so I didn't even notice it.

I think so. Obviously there is the difference of Canada being a middle power, so their political dynamic might be more relaxed. If I'm correct I think I'm not eligible to intern in D.C. though, because some places require me to be a U.S. citizen. (I'm not a citizen, but I have permanent residency.) I was under the impression that interning in Parliament/Congress is just a standard soft, by TLS standards. Correct me if I'm wrong! I would love to be wrong!

And I feel you on Study Abroad providing some relief from American drinking laws. I was in Canada for the internship and France for study abroad so I got to dabble in responsible consumption for a few months.

[Tofer]

After reading the posts about the "meaning" of complete emails and UR statuses, I am starting to get anxious:

I went under review on 12/21 and got a "complete" email on 1/5. However, I have yet to hear anything and have been checking my email spam. Any idea on why it's taking so long for me to hear something?

PS: I know you all say that the complete email means that the application review has been completed and you are about to get a decision (kb1, hold, etc...). In that case, the email is ambiguous because it says the following: "As of today, your application to Harvard Law School is complete. This means that we have received and assembled all required materials and submitted your application for review." What's the point of the "under review" status then? -_-

Some wait people wait a LONG time after they receive a "Complete" email. There's a thread just for the forgotten, many of whom went UR before thanksgiving and haven't heard a thing. I wouldn't worry just yet.

Thanks Byzantine! I will check out the forgotten thread

[Elliott_Smith]

Yeah, but I think I am way better prepared to be successful, especially professionally, now. Three years ago I would have been clueless writing my first cover letter, interviewing, etc...

Totally. I'm really glad I took my time.

[splbagel]

Is interning at Parliament equivalent in terms of prestige + experience to working on the hill? Cause that is a solid soft.

Bummer about 21. I turned 21 while studying abroad, so I didn't even notice it.

I think so. Obviously there is the difference of Canada being a middle power, so their political dynamic might be more relaxed. If I'm correct I think I'm not eligible to intern in D.C. though, because some places require me to be a U.S. citizen. (I'm not a citizen, but I have permanent residency.) I was under the impression that interning in Parliament/Congress is just a standard soft, by TLS standards. Correct me if I'm wrong! I would love to be wrong!

And I feel you on Study Abroad providing some relief from American drinking laws. I was in Canada for the internship and France for study abroad so I got to dabble in responsible consumption for a few months.

I'd guess that any kind of federal government level work would be considered a strong, if not outrageously outstanding, soft.

I wouldn't write off all DC internships just yet -- some will require you to be a USC, particularly anything involving national security, but I'm sure many agencies would be happy to take an LPR.

I turned 21 abroad too, after living there most of the year. So anticlimactic!

[Byzantine]

Is interning at Parliament equivalent in terms of prestige + experience to working on the hill? Cause that is a solid soft.

Bummer about 21. I turned 21 while studying abroad, so I didn't even notice it.

I think so. Obviously there is the difference of Canada being a middle power, so their political dynamic might be more relaxed. If I'm correct I think I'm not eligible to intern in D.C. though, because some places require me to be a U.S. citizen. (I'm not a citizen, but I have permanent residency.) I was under the impression that interning in Parliament/Congress is just a standard soft, by TLS standards. Correct me if I'm wrong! I would love to be wrong!

And I feel you on Study Abroad providing some relief from American drinking laws. I was in Canada for the internship and France for study abroad so I got to dabble in responsible consumption for a few months.

I'd agree that interning in Parliament/On the Hill ranges from an above-average to strong soft. It wouldn't make up for bad numbers, but it would set someone apart who was near the medians and have lots of number twins.

[sharktankdean]

Does anyone think there would be kb1s tomorrow or are we expecting more holds or even worse--rejections?

[lilhmoney]

As someone mentioned a few pages back, if you look through last year's thread (which, for the sake of mental health, I wouldn't recommend) some people got kb1s a few days after getting hold emails.

[Elendil]

Does anyone think there would be kb1s tomorrow or are we expecting more holds or even worse--rejections?

I *think* the bloodshed should be over for a couple of weeks... wishful thinking!

[captainwasabi09]

I'd agree that interning in Parliament/On the Hill ranges from an above-average to strong soft. It wouldn't make up for bad numbers, but it would set someone apart who was near the medians and have lots of number twins.

Well evidently I have lots of number twins on TLS, number twin. I also got a letter of recommendation from the MP who I interned with, which probably helps as well. In fact, I have too many letters of recommendation (I think). It's four, which is legal play here, but I think I read that Harvard preferred fewer, well-selected letters over four, poorly selected letters. I just happened to submit four due to a mailing mishap where my primary letter was lost in the Christmas mail and finally arrived on January 6... It was mailed December 7. In the meantime I had contacted other recommenders who were enthusiastic, but I just hope this doesn't come off as bad planning.

Do you think working part-time in college gives any tangible advantage over another K-JD who didn't bother to work when in school?

I'm trying to find out the relative worths of my softs and see if they can offset the fact that I'm coming straight out of undergrad.

[captainwasabi09]

I'd guess that any kind of federal government level work would be considered a strong, if not outrageously outstanding, soft.

I wouldn't write off all DC internships just yet -- some will require you to be a USC, particularly anything involving national security, but I'm sure many agencies would be happy to take an LPR.

I turned 21 abroad too, after living there most of the year. So anticlimactic!

True. My assumption on DC internships was based on the Michigan in Washington program, which does highly recommend you to be a US citizen over a Permanent Resident because you have to apply for the internships yourself. With the Ottawa internship, we applied and were accepted and were placed by the program based on language preference (bilingual), party preference (none, but bilingual offices tend to be Liberal or NDP), and areas of interest (I marked immigration, citizenship, and language rights, which is what I got placed with).
Also, at career fairs all the government agencies who did show at UMich required I be a US citizen. This was why I assumed I needed citizenship. It makes sense that an agency on environment, for example, would not require it, though.

What other activities would be examples of strong softs?

[phx]

What other activities would be examples of strong softs?

Founding a city: http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... =9&t=73823

[Byzantine]

I'd agree that interning in Parliament/On the Hill ranges from an above-average to strong soft. It wouldn't make up for bad numbers, but it would set someone apart who was near the medians and have lots of number twins.

Well evidently I have lots of number twins on TLS, number twin. I also got a letter of recommendation from the MP who I interned with, which probably helps as well. In fact, I have too many letters of recommendation (I think). It's four, which is legal play here, but I think I read that Harvard preferred fewer, well-selected letters over four, poorly selected letters. I just happened to submit four due to a mailing mishap where my primary letter was lost in the Christmas mail and finally arrived on January 6... It was mailed December 7. In the meantime I had contacted other recommenders who were enthusiastic, but I just hope this doesn't come off as bad planning.

Do you think working part-time in college gives any tangible advantage over another K-JD who didn't bother to work when in school?

I'm trying to find out the relative worths of my softs and see if they can offset the fact that I'm coming straight out of undergrad.

Wow, 4 letters, you're a gunner. I might as well relinquish my spot now, numbers twin.

I'd think any part-time employment is good. I personally have a lot respect for someone who helped put themselves through college (but still did well grade-wise)--it speaks to a level of intentionality on the part of the applicant. I've heard stories of adcomms remembering someone because they listed landscaping as a job, and they liked the down-to-earth personality. I listed fine-dining table service during college, and my high school summer job.

There will be a lot of applicants who have gone to private middle school and high school, an ivy undergrad, and all on their parent's money.

[Byzantine]

It's quiet. Too quiet.

[Mr. Somebody]

I'd agree that interning in Parliament/On the Hill ranges from an above-average to strong soft. It wouldn't make up for bad numbers, but it would set someone apart who was near the medians and have lots of number twins.

Well evidently I have lots of number twins on TLS, number twin. I also got a letter of recommendation from the MP who I interned with, which probably helps as well. In fact, I have too many letters of recommendation (I think). It's four, which is legal play here, but I think I read that Harvard preferred fewer, well-selected letters over four, poorly selected letters. I just happened to submit four due to a mailing mishap where my primary letter was lost in the Christmas mail and finally arrived on January 6... It was mailed December 7. In the meantime I had contacted other recommenders who were enthusiastic, but I just hope this doesn't come off as bad planning.

Do you think working part-time in college gives any tangible advantage over another K-JD who didn't bother to work when in school?

I'm trying to find out the relative worths of my softs and see if they can offset the fact that I'm coming straight out of undergrad.

Wow, 4 letters, you're a gunner. I might as well relinquish my spot now, numbers twin.

I'd think any part-time employment is good. I personally have a lot respect for someone who helped put themselves through college (but still did well grade-wise)--it speaks to a level of intentionality on the part of the applicant. I've heard stories of adcomms remembering someone because they listed landscaping as a job, and they liked the down-to-earth personality. I listed fine-dining table service during college, and my high school summer job.

There will be a lot of applicants who have gone to private middle school and high school, an ivy undergrad, and all on their parent's money.

There's also a lot of applicants who work during college. I don't think this is a strong soft at all. And as someone who interned on the Hill I doubt its a strong soft either. Getting one of those is not that difficult and given the number of social science majors who eventually apply to law school, a lot of them have internships under their belt. I can't speak for interning in the Parliament though.

Work experience post-grad isn't necessarily a big soft either unless you're applying to NU. Examples of strong softs are - starting a business, being a Katrina victim, winning an Olympic medal, etc

If you want to know how strong your soft is, then just ask yourself how many other applicants are likely to have the same thing....

[icedflames]

Work experience post-grad does have some effect as many K-JDs have been dinged with decent numbers

[Mr. Somebody]

Work experience post-grad does have some effect as many K-JDs have been dinged with decent numbers

We don't know that it's because of work experience though. And it's all working in small samples anyways.

Work experience might be different because it seems like something schools can report in a neat little statistic to show how their class is more mature. Something you can't really do with internships, or part-time work during college.

[hypothalamus]

Work experience post-grad does have some effect as many K-JDs have been dinged with decent numbers

We don't know that it's because of work experience though. And it's all working in small samples anyways.

Work experience might be different because it seems like something schools can report in a neat little statistic to show how their class is more mature. Something you can't really do with internships, or part-time work during college.

I think the point has been made by many admissions reps that it's not necessarily a matter of it being a negative that you're coming straight from undergrad, but rather that even a few months of real work experience enrich young adults' perspectives and help them craft more thoughtful applications. I don't know about you guys, but the personal statement I would have submitted a year ago would have been 10 times weaker than the one I submitted this year, even if the rest of my application is the same.

But it's also been noted that HLS is actively trying to reruit more people with WE. Refer to the info session summary someone provided maybe 10 pages back or so.

[snehpets]

Interned both on the hill and with parliament, radio silence since early november, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't do much for you unfortunately.

[Mr. Somebody]

Work experience post-grad does have some effect as many K-JDs have been dinged with decent numbers

We don't know that it's because of work experience though. And it's all working in small samples anyways.

Work experience might be different because it seems like something schools can report in a neat little statistic to show how their class is more mature. Something you can't really do with internships, or part-time work during college.

I think the point has been made by many admissions reps that it's not necessarily a matter of it being a negative that you're coming straight from undergrad, but rather that even a few months of real work experience enrich young adults' perspectives and help them craft more thoughtful applications. I don't know about you guys, but the personal statement I would have submitted a year ago would have been 10 times weaker than the one I submitted this year, even if the rest of my application is the same.

But it's also been noted that HLS is actively trying to reruit more people with WE. Refer to the info session summary someone provided maybe 10 pages back or so.

I tend not to believe anything admissions reps say. BUT, as I said before, I do think work experience can be of benefit for the reasons I stated earlier. But I don't really see it as a "Soft". A soft to me is something that makes your application unique, makes you stand out. Work experience is like GPA and LSAT in that its somewhat of a litmus test that schools can use to improve their class profile statistics

[TheWatch]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=176548
Allow this to make you even more neurotic
/shameless self-plug

[icedflames]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=176548
Allow this to make you even more neurotic
/shameless self-plug

the "lol" entry actually made me lol a bit.
very informative though, unfortunately, there's indication for harvard's hold on LSN. that information would be very useful

[TheWatch]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=176548
Allow this to make you even more neurotic
/shameless self-plug

the "lol" entry actually made me lol a bit.
very informative though, unfortunately, there's indication for harvard's hold on LSN. that information would be very useful

If you find a way for LSN to include it, I'll make a special report for that.

[captainwasabi09]

There's also a lot of applicants who work during college. I don't think this is a strong soft at all. And as someone who interned on the Hill I doubt its a strong soft either. Getting one of those is not that difficult and given the number of social science majors who eventually apply to law school, a lot of them have internships under their belt. I can't speak for interning in the Parliament though.

Work experience post-grad isn't necessarily a big soft either unless you're applying to NU. Examples of strong softs are - starting a business, being a Katrina victim, winning an Olympic medal, etc

If you want to know how strong your soft is, then just ask yourself how many other applicants are likely to have the same thing....

Would having a big role in a new journal be considered helpful? What I was thinking was, yes, the Journal I'm on is less established (just published inaugural issue yesterday), but it requires a higher level of commitment and innovation because we're still trying to figure stuff out. Also, the Journal is one of only three of its kind in the nation. I didn't mention this on my application which may be to my detriment. But how many of you have read a general-interest Asian Studies journal?
Also I'm a member of a young pre-law fraternity. I'm barred from election due to my graduation date, so I don't have an executive position, but I can safely say nobody is applying to Harvard this year with the same Greek letters. I'm hoping this intrigues the Adcomms.
Slightly convincing? Yay/nay

Also I didn't ask about part-time work being a strong soft, just if it gives palpable advantage over someone who doesn't work.

[snehpets]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=176548
Allow this to make you even more neurotic
/shameless self-plug

the "lol" entry actually made me lol a bit.
very informative though, unfortunately, there's indication for harvard's hold on LSN. that information would be very useful

If you find a way for LSN to include it, I'll make a special report for that.

I think I posted this a couple days ago, but LSN is totally redesigning their site and would probably really appreciate this sort of feedback. It probably wouldn't help us, but for future generations of neurotic people.