American vs Rutgers

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gsat
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American vs Rutgers

Postby gsat » Mon May 16, 2011 8:19 pm

Difficulty deciding....thoughts?

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Grizz
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Mon May 16, 2011 8:21 pm

No one can answer without cost of attendance, career goals, and where you want to work.

deadhipsters
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby deadhipsters » Mon May 16, 2011 8:27 pm

rad law wrote:No one can answer without cost of attendance, career goals, and where you want to work.



Even without knowing it's safe bet to say Rutger's. American is really expensive and in a tough market. And I seem to remember them being stingy with money. At least Rutgers-Camden would give you access to Philly, NJ, and even an outside shot at DC.

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dpk711
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby dpk711 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:29 pm

deadhipsters wrote:
rad law wrote:No one can answer without cost of attendance, career goals, and where you want to work.



Even without knowing it's safe bet to say Rutger's. American is really expensive and in a tough market. And I seem to remember them being stingy with money. At least Rutgers-Camden would give you access to Philly, NJ, and even an outside shot at DC.

This is not true.

deadhipsters
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby deadhipsters » Mon May 16, 2011 8:31 pm

Exception: American offers you 25-30k a year. There you go.

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gsat
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby gsat » Mon May 16, 2011 8:33 pm

Not getting aid from either, which I've come to terms with. PI emphasis. What concerns me is the versatility of degrees across the nation. To offer a further explanation, I am an east coaster that has just spent the last 8 years in California. I’ve noticed that they both have a small percentage of graduates that end up on the Pacific Coast, which is understandable considering the scarcity of internships. I am willing, however, to put forth the effort in finding my own California based internships. Please keep in mind that I am a first generation anything and that all of this is new territory for me.

Thanks for the help :)

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Grizz
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Mon May 16, 2011 8:34 pm

gsat wrote:Not getting aid from either, which I've come to terms with. PI emphasis. What concerns me is the versatility of degrees across the nation. To offer a further explanation, I am an east coaster that has just spent the last 8 years in California. I’ve noticed that they both have a small percentage of graduates that end up on the Pacific Coast, which is understandable considering the scarcity of internships. I am willing, however, to put forth the effort in finding my own California based internships. Please keep in mind that I am a first generation anything and that all of this is new territory for me.

Thanks for the help :)


Oh lawd you are paying sticker at both and want to take the degree across the nation to Cali? You will be disappointed and probably heavily indebted. National recognition of these schools is nonexistent. If you want to work in California, retake/reapply and get into a Cali school.

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gsat
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby gsat » Mon May 16, 2011 8:37 pm

I would like to further add that I am also considering transferring. I would really like to begin my JD degree this year, as I have been out of school for a few years now.

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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Mon May 16, 2011 8:40 pm

gsat wrote:I would like to further add that I am also considering transferring. I would really like to begin my JD degree this year, as I have been out of school for a few years now.


Consider this

vanwinkle wrote:The near-universal response you will get is that you should never attend a school specifically intending to transfer. There are two reasons for this.

The first is that 95% of transfer admissions is your 1L grades, and you can't predict in advance how well you're going to do your 1L year. If you intend to transfer up a tier, you're going to need to do very well your first year, probably top 10% or better. The problem is, everyone is going to be trying to be in the top 10% of their class their first year, and if 100% of the class is trying to be in the top 10%, 90% will be disappointed. And since there's no way to know where you'll do until you actually finish 1L year, you have no way of knowing as a 0L whether you'll be in the top 10% or the disappointed 90% until you actually are.

The second is that transferring schools means you leave behind professors that you built up a reputation with and are starting over. This is why even lateral transfers, which are a lot more possible, are typically regarded as dumb. You're leaving behind all the good things you built up at your first year of school and not gaining any new employment opportunities because you're not transferring upward at all. If you plan on attending school X for a year and then transfer to similarly-ranked school Y, you should've just attended school Y in the first place.

The typical answer you're going to get, if you can't get into school Y, is to take a year, fix whatever is causing you to not get into school Y (retake the LSAT, get more WE, etc.), and reapply. That is, honestly, both easier and better for you than transferring. Transferring is a bitch, do not count on it.

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gsat
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby gsat » Mon May 16, 2011 8:50 pm

rad law wrote:
gsat wrote:I would like to further add that I am also considering transferring. I would really like to begin my JD degree this year, as I have been out of school for a few years now.


Consider this

vanwinkle wrote:The near-universal response you will get is that you should never attend a school specifically intending to transfer. There are two reasons for this.

The first is that 95% of transfer admissions is your 1L grades, and you can't predict in advance how well you're going to do your 1L year. If you intend to transfer up a tier, you're going to need to do very well your first year, probably top 10% or better. The problem is, everyone is going to be trying to be in the top 10% of their class their first year, and if 100% of the class is trying to be in the top 10%, 90% will be disappointed. And since there's no way to know where you'll do until you actually finish 1L year, you have no way of knowing as a 0L whether you'll be in the top 10% or the disappointed 90% until you actually are.

The second is that transferring schools means you leave behind professors that you built up a reputation with and are starting over. This is why even lateral transfers, which are a lot more possible, are typically regarded as dumb. You're leaving behind all the good things you built up at your first year of school and not gaining any new employment opportunities because you're not transferring upward at all. If you plan on attending school X for a year and then transfer to similarly-ranked school Y, you should've just attended school Y in the first place.

The typical answer you're going to get, if you can't get into school Y, is to take a year, fix whatever is causing you to not get into school Y (retake the LSAT, get more WE, etc.), and reapply. That is, honestly, both easier and better for you than transferring. Transferring is a bitch, do not count on it.


Well that is unfortunate...what a bummer!

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dpk711
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby dpk711 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:24 pm

I would rather go to Southwestern rather than Rutgers for LA. Retake or don't go.

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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby 23402385985 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:48 pm

Well, you cannot go far in Jersey without finding a lawyer from Rutgers. They permeate the state top to bottom. If you want to work in Jersey, there aren't many better options for you. The alumni base is pretty huge. But if you don't want to work in Jersey (or the surrounding areas), than it would be kind of dumb to go to school there.

flexityflex86
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:53 pm

joncrooshal wrote:Well, you cannot go far in Jersey without finding a lawyer from Rutgers. They permeate the state top to bottom. If you want to work in Jersey, there aren't many better options for you. The alumni base is pretty huge. But if you don't want to work in Jersey (or the surrounding areas), than it would be kind of dumb to go to school there.

Wouldn't a top 14 outdo Rutgers if they wanted

And you aren't going to get what you want on the West Coast. My girlfriend's brother went to a TTT in Boston, and cannot get a job in NY.

I told her he was crazy to go to Boston for NYC, but a lot of people make this mistake. If you go back to Cali, you'll be a lawyer but so will 1,000,000 other people, and superficially speaking, you won't look any better than any of them. You could be some genius lawyer from a crap school like Ben Brafman, but you can't bank on that.

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Grizz
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Mon May 16, 2011 10:59 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:Well, you cannot go far in Jersey without finding a lawyer from Rutgers. They permeate the state top to bottom. If you want to work in Jersey, there aren't many better options for you. The alumni base is pretty huge. But if you don't want to work in Jersey (or the surrounding areas), than it would be kind of dumb to go to school there.

Wouldn't a top 14 outdo Rutgers if they wanted


That's not how legal hiring works. Also depends on grades and ties (and for smaller firms and local govt., who you know).

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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby 23402385985 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:13 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:Well, you cannot go far in Jersey without finding a lawyer from Rutgers. They permeate the state top to bottom. If you want to work in Jersey, there aren't many better options for you. The alumni base is pretty huge. But if you don't want to work in Jersey (or the surrounding areas), than it would be kind of dumb to go to school there.

Wouldn't a top 14 outdo Rutgers if they wanted


No, not really. Rutgers is King Shit in New Jersey, for the most part. I mean, if you are going to a truly elite school with an elite GPA, you'll do fine wherever. But for the average student, Rutgers will open more doors in New Jersey than, say, Georgetown. Rutgers is highly regarded throughout the state in pretty much every program they offer, really.

kaiser
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby kaiser » Mon May 16, 2011 11:17 pm

Look at every large firm in NJ. They are PACKED with Rutgers and Seton Hall grads. I went to school (T25) out of state (am an NJ native) and was getting beat out by Rutgers 1L's left and right for summer positions. Rutgers = loyalty to NJ, which is taken very seriously since many NJ employers are wary of those who apply simply because they couldn't get a job in NY. They treat their own very well. And Rutgers runs through NJ's blood. So if you want to get a job in Jersey, you can get very far with a Rutgers degree. Anywhere else though and then the degree becomes of much less use.

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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby 23402385985 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:19 pm

kaiser wrote:Look at every large firm in NJ. They are PACKED with Rutgers and Seton Hall grads. I went to school (T25) out of state (am an NJ native) and was getting beat out by Rutgers 1L's left and right for summer positions. Rutgers = loyalty to NJ, which is taken very seriously since many NJ employers are wary of those who apply simply because they couldn't get a job in NY. They treat their own very well. And Rutgers runs through NJ's blood. So if you want to get a job in Jersey, you can get very far with a Rutgers degree. Anywhere else though and then the degree becomes of much less use.


You'll see some action in Eastern PA (Rutgers Camden ties) and maybe even DE, I guess. They place a bit in NY, too. Nothing real great, though. But NJ is a huge state with lots of attorneys. Vast majority tend to have Rutgers ties, for sure.

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gsat
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby gsat » Tue May 17, 2011 12:05 pm

So what I'm gathering is that if I really want to study in New Jersey, then attend Rutgers. Or, attend American whole heartedly, or, wait a year and reapply to all of my top schools?

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Grizz
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Tue May 17, 2011 12:09 pm

gsat wrote:So what I'm gathering is that if I really want to study in New Jersey, then attend Rutgers. Or, attend American whole heartedly, or, wait a year and reapply to all of my top schools?


I wouldn't go to American at all.

wojo96
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby wojo96 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:19 pm

gsat wrote:wait a year and reapply to all of my top schools?


This.

flexityflex86
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:23 pm

Hard to believe Rutgers is such a powerhouse. You guys are talking about it like it's better than BU/BC job wise.

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Grizz
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Grizz » Tue May 17, 2011 12:28 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Hard to believe Rutgers is such a powerhouse. You guys are talking about it like it's better than BU/BC job wise.


It's not. Yes tons of attorneys are from Rutgers. This does not mean it will be easy to get a job out of Rutgers.

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Bigbub75
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Bigbub75 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:02 pm

Rutgers is a powerhouse in NJ. But that's about it. Current 2L here and I knew a few 3ls who are going to Cravath, S&C, and the DOJ just to name a few. 3.4gpa( Rutgers doesn't rank but some of the NYC law firms have gpa cut offs for interviews) or higher can get you NYC Biglaw. Or you could do NJ midlaw . Most of them pay between 145,000 - 125,000. I know several that are going to those firms as well. NJ law firms seem to be very committed to hiring Rutgers grads. So if you do ok and don't mind doing NJ Midlaw Rutgers is not a bad school. And it's still comparatively affordable. They charge you instate tuition as long as you sign a NJ lease. For the OP, Rutgers is also big into PI, but once again that's only in Jersey.

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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby 23402385985 » Fri May 20, 2011 10:09 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Hard to believe Rutgers is such a powerhouse. You guys are talking about it like it's better than BU/BC job wise.


Rutgers is a powerhouse in New Jersey. End of story.

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: American vs Rutgers

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 10:12 pm

joncrooshal wrote:Rutgers is a powerhouse in New Jersey. End of story.

I'm sure Cooley is a powerhouse in Michigan too.

Whatever you do, just don't go to American. Or Rutgers.




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