Southwestern vs Whittier, Thomas Jefferson, Western State Forum

[Oblivion_08]

Please help me guys, I know these are tier 3/4 schools, I just don't want to hear snarky comments. Before you decide to comment.
I CAN'T RETAKE.

I want to specialize in IP(intellectual property) law, and I want to know If I am going to the best school for it.

Now, I've been accepted to Thomas Jefferson on the Intellectual Property Fellowship Program with 10,000 per year. I was told attrition rate there was 12%. I am on the waitlist to Whittier, but I am pretty sure I will be placed in considering that school is everyone's backup to Chapman. I have been accepted to Western State with 5,000 per year. These are all for full-time.

I have interviewed with Southwestern about admission, they told me to apply as part-time and I will have a MUCH better chance. THey called me a in a couple times to speak to me, so I am confident. Now here's my dilemma...

Cost of school doesn't mean much to me considering I have some scholly's and the money for law school(savings account created in '95, where would you guys go if you were in my shoes?

FT at a tier 4 like TJ,WSU,Whittier, and become a part of the fellowship program at TJ or PT at a tier 3 in Southwestern?

[Oblivion_08]

Bump.

[romothesavior]

Bump.

None of the above, these schools are all terrible. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole if they were free, let alone spend tens of thousands of dollars on them. That's probably not what you want to hear, but I can assure you that almost any law student or practicing attorney (who isn't at one of these schools) would tell you the same.

If you really can't retake for some reason, then don't go to law school. Trust me, it is a far better life decision to just not go than to go to one of these schools. I know people who regret going to top 20 schools because of the debt and lack of jobs. How do you think people at these schools are faring? Go to these schools at your own peril, and you'll definitely get no sympathy from me if (more like when) you wind up 6-figures in debt and waiting tables at Applebee's.

[traehekat]

Bump.

None of the above, these schools are all terrible. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole if they were free, let alone spend tens of thousands of dollars on them. That's probably not what you want to hear, but I can assure you that almost any law student or practicing attorney (who isn't at one of these schools) would tell you the same.

If you really can't retake for some reason, then don't go to law school. Trust me, it is a far better life decision to just not go than to go to one of these schools. I know people who regret going to top 20 schools because of the debt and lack of jobs. How do you think people at these schools are faring? Go to these schools at your own peril, and you'll definitely get no sympathy from me if (more like when) you wind up 6-figures in debt and waiting tables at Applebee's.

[bloobook]

.

[mettasutta]

Honestly, none of these schools are viable options without a full ride (no strict stipulations) and a relative or close friend guaranteeing you a job after graduation.

[traehekat]

Bump.

If you really can't retake for some reason, then don't go to law school.

While I agree that these schools aren't that good (from what I hear/based on what TLS posters say), I hate this advice. It totally disregards that some people just aren't good at standardized tests.

Uhhh, I don't think so. It is irrelevant whether OP sucks at standardized tests. He/she could end up in the top 5-10% at any of these schools and still be SOL. Your advice ignores the fact that no person, under really any circumstances, should attend these schools.

[SilverE2]

Bump.

If you really can't retake for some reason, then don't go to law school.

While I agree that these schools aren't that good (from what I hear/based on what TLS posters say), I hate this advice. It totally disregards that some people just aren't good at standardized tests.

I would go with whatever is cheapest.

I love how every person I've EVER spoken to who has done crappy on a standardized test "just isn't good at standardized tests".

[romothesavior]

While I agree that these schools aren't that good (from what I hear/based on what TLS posters say), I hate this advice. It totally disregards that some people just aren't good at standardized tests.

I would go with whatever is cheapest.

It may be that OP is bad at standardized tests, and you're right that I disregard this point. Why? Because it is totally irrelevant to whether going to these schools is worthwhile. I think what you are trying to say is that OP could do fine in law school despite having a bad LSAT score. And you know what? You may be right, he could end up with pretty good grades. The problem with your point (which is totally irrelevant to mine) is that doing fine in law school at these schools will still leave you unemployed (or if you're lucky, underemployed) with 6 figures of debt.

These schools aren't just "not that good." These schools are downright atrocious dumps that offer horrendous job prospects. I wouldn't even waste three years there if they were free, and OP is looking at six figures of debt from these places? Truly horrible job prospects and a lifetime of heavy law school debt will await you from any of these places, OP. I'm not telling you this because I have a dog in this fight, I'm telling you because it is the truth.

[fanmingrui]

Bump.

None of the above, these schools are all terrible. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole if they were free, let alone spend tens of thousands of dollars on them. That's probably not what you want to hear, but I can assure you that almost any law student or practicing attorney (who isn't at one of these schools) would tell you the same.

If you really can't retake for some reason, then don't go to law school. Trust me, it is a far better life decision to just not go than to go to one of these schools. I know people who regret going to top 20 schools because of the debt and lack of jobs. How do you think people at these schools are faring? Go to these schools at your own peril, and you'll definitely get no sympathy from me if (more like when) you wind up 6-figures in debt and waiting tables at Applebee's.

TITCR

[GATORTIM]

While I agree that these schools aren't that good (from what I hear/based on what TLS posters say), I hate this advice. It totally disregards that some people just aren't good at standardized tests.

I would go with whatever is cheapest.

It may be that OP is bad at standardized tests, and you're right that I disregard this point. Why? Because it is totally irrelevant to whether going to these schools is worthwhile. I think what you are trying to say is that OP could do fine in law school despite having a bad LSAT score. And you know what? You may be right, he could end up with pretty good grades. The problem with your point (which is totally irrelevant to mine) is that doing fine in law school at these schools will still leave you unemployed (or if you're lucky, underemployed) with 6 figures of debt.

These schools aren't just "not that good." These schools are downright atrocious dumps that offer horrendous job prospects. I wouldn't even waste three years there if they were free, and OP is looking at six figures of debt from these places? Truly horrible job prospects and a lifetime of heavy law school debt will await you from any of these places, OP. I'm not telling you this because I have a dog in this fight, I'm telling you because it is the truth.

[SFnative]

Southwestern is your better choice, and ppl do get jobs out of here. ..

[Oblivion_08]

Im not worried about a job..I know that sounds snarky from my end..but I have alleys, most of my cousins are successful attorneys out of Whittier Southwestern and Chapman.

Honestly thanks for the advice..I love hearing all of it, bad or good, but can someone advice me on what I am asking?

[traehekat]

Im not worried about a job..I know that sounds snarky from my end..but I have alleys, most of my cousins are successful attorneys out of Whittier Southwestern and Chapman.

Honestly thanks for the advice..I love hearing all of it, bad or good, but can someone advice me on what I am asking?

Well, if you know for sure you have a job lined up when you graduate, then I guess you should just go to the place that is the cheapest.

[romothesavior]

Im not worried about a job..I know that sounds snarky from my end..but I have alleys, most of my cousins are successful attorneys out of Whittier Southwestern and Chapman.

Honestly thanks for the advice..I love hearing all of it, bad or good, but can someone advice me on what I am asking?

If you 1) are sure you have a job and 2) don't care about cost, then what the hell are you asking us for? Visit the schools and pick whichever you like the most.

[Oblivion_08]

What are my chances of transferring from a TTTT to a TT? Considering I do very well in my TTTT

[EstboundNDwn]

Im not worried about a job..I know that sounds snarky from my end..but I have alleys, most of my cousins are successful attorneys out of Whittier Southwestern and Chapman.

Honestly thanks for the advice..I love hearing all of it, bad or good, but can someone advice me on what I am asking?

Go to Southwestern.

The alumni base is much stronger than any of those other schools. The COL may be higher, but you're going to need to rely on those alumni when you have to compete in an oversaturated, stagnant market.

Not only is TJ's curve brutal, but San Diego's legal market isn't large enough to accommodate them. People from top law schools across the nation also flock to San Diego, which it makes it doubly difficult to find a position. Whittier and Western can't even place well in OC for similar reasons. Factor in CA's horrible economy, especially since it isn't likely to rebound any time soon as businesses continue to flood out of the state, and your best bet is graduate from somewhere that at least has some significant alumni support.

Good luck.

[romothesavior]

What are my chances of transferring from a TTTT to a TT? Considering I do very well in my TTTT

If you finish in the top 10% you can probably transfer up. But transferring when you have a job in hand is dumb, especially if you have a scholarship. What's the point?

[Ersatz Haderach]

^^^ They are not good. Transferring from (ANYWHERE) to (ANYWHERE ELSE) is never, ever something you can or should rely on. If God smiles on you and you end up first or second in your class, you have a decent chance of transferring to T1. Top 10-15% at a T4, transferring to T2/T3, sure, it's possible. Worth throwing away your scholarship for? If it's not that big, maybe.

But listen: you must, must, assume this will not happen. There are other people in your entering class at Whittier or whereever planning the same exact thing. Assume you graduate below median. Do you have a plan for that? Are you happy with it? Can you handle the expense? Then go, and be a great lawyer. There are good lawyers from T3/T4 schools. There are just not that many opportunities for those without connections. Make sure your connections are what you need them to be your 2L year.

[Oblivion_08]

Thank you guys. I'm not banking on transferring, one thing I do know is that TJSL has a great IP program(from what I read here http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2010/04 ... grams.html) in the nation). I know Southwestern has a great entertainment law program, one that I am also interested because IP and ENT go hand in hand.

Based on my interest in IP and PT at SW and FT at TJSL where should I go, if I get accepted to SW?

And also, I applied to LaVerne and I'm sure I'll get in, does anyone recommend that school? Are they up and coming? Or just another school?

[thegreatk]

Dude, for the love of everything holy, don't go to thomas jefferson. They made their own rankings listing themselves in the top 20. The fact that this institution is willing to lie to students, with no qualms or regrets, should be enough to make you want to run away at full speed. That and the fact that they are the laughing stock of the legal community should make it a no brainer.

Specialized rankings in general are bs, and I'm willing to bet the site you sourced is largely bs, too.

Southwestern is NOT a bad choice. I've worked at an la law firm for years and have met many lawyers (good and bad) from southwestern. Go there, if you really can't retake....which I also think is bs.

[Oblivion_08]

I've taken it 3 times already, I can't take it again for a year. I don't want to wait. I have a lot of successful cousins who have gone to Whittier and SW. If I get into SW I will go there no doubt, but just for IP purposes, where is a good school to go to?

For some reason I hit in the 155-158 area on PT's but on the actual test I couldn't crack 152..I don't know why, it was tough for me, but I'm happy with SW, but still I want someone to convince me not to go to TJ and I think you're helping a lot, any other reasons?

And I just withdrew from Western State, that place is shit, plus it's next to a high school and they share parking with the school.

How about LaVerne btw, is there a reason for me to try that?

[Danteshek]

Im not worried about a job..I know that sounds snarky from my end..but I have alleys, most of my cousins are successful attorneys out of Whittier Southwestern and Chapman.

Honestly thanks for the advice..I love hearing all of it, bad or good, but can someone advice me on what I am asking?

Go to Southwestern.

The alumni base is much stronger than any of those other schools. The COL may be higher, but you're going to need to rely on those alumni when you have to compete in an oversaturated, stagnant market.

Not only is TJ's curve brutal, but San Diego's legal market isn't large enough to accommodate them. People from top law schools across the nation also flock to San Diego, which it makes it doubly difficult to find a position. Whittier and Western can't even place well in OC for similar reasons. Factor in CA's horrible economy, especially since it isn't likely to rebound any time soon as businesses continue to flood out of the state, and your best bet is graduate from somewhere that at least has some significant alumni support.

Good luck.

Agree. Go to Southwestern. At least you will enjoy yourself and get a good education. Worry about the rest later.

FYI, I transferred from SW to LLS. You'll need top 20% to do that.

[Oblivion_08]

Thanks, I'm gonna be in the PT program, I know I will do well, I work really hard and I want this more than anything I've ever wanted. I'm going to apply to USC and LLS after my first year at SW and see how it goes. I have some connections at USC, but none at LLS. We'll see.

Once again anything on LaVerne?

[thegreatk]

I know nothing about laverne, so I can't really give you any advice there. And keep in mind, your cousins made their way when the economy wasn't garbage. Unless they have jobs ready for you, their success is probably irrelevant.

If you do have a job lined up.....don't stress! You've for a leg up on half of the top 20. Its all about that j.o.b. The rest is just details and peacock feathers. (Still choose southwest, the legal education quality there is far superior to your other options)