deleted. thanks for the advice

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:58 pm

I am being honest, however you can't expect me to ramble off all the details to a bunch of people I don't know.

In July it will have been 5 years since the incident.

I originally intended to ask if this kind of rejection was normal, and if not, then I would determine for myself that it is probably the conviction which is hurting me.

I do appreciate the help though.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:05 pm

Keeper1125 wrote:.



Thanks :) Yeah, I did more of the explaining in the C&F with regards to treatment and whatnot. But the PS was centered around overcoming adversity and about taking responsibility for my life.
Last edited by metallaura on Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:12 pm

danquayle wrote:
txadv11 wrote:Let me get this straight. You were unarmed and were shot by police? Now everything is better, and in disclosing the "incident" you are getting dinged with a GPA/LSAT well above 75% at many schools.

This could be an epic personal statement if you write it VERY carefully. If you decided to apply elsewhere, or again.


Agreed.

Kudos to TLS on this one, btw. Helpful and empathetic responses in a thread that could have degraded quickly. Xoxo-ness kept to a minimum.

OP... you're going to have to play this very, very carefully. One thing I've learned is that mistakes can be turned into great opportunities. That being said, it's going to shadow for you your entire life. I know people who've been dinged for mental C&F issues that seem petty. One person was C&F dinged (by the bar) because she'd gone through counseling in high school and early college (we're talking 19-20 years). She was dealing with bad breakups and some relatives dying, and proactively sought the help out before anything fell apart for her. I mean, that's precisely what we want people doing, right? But because of that, over half a decade later, a state considered her too unstable for legal practice.

The point of my story is that you're going to have to deal with this the rest of your life. It's going to be there, always. The best way to do that is to embrace it, as it seems you've done. As txad said, you can make this into a really, really compelling PS. You've mentioned Wisconsin has a great program for people in similar situaitons. I hope you specifically tied this event to Wisconsin's program? Sounds like, especially with your in-state status (Wisconsin loves in-staters) you could turn this into a very comeplling story for Wisconsin's adcomm. But you're only going to do that if you live up to in in fully painful detail. Anything less than FULL AND ABSOLUTE DISCLOSURE will come off obstruction, and that's what law schools are really worried about. The specific criminal events aren't so much as the issue as is the likelihood that you reoffend. You have to make it clear that won't happen, and that essentialy means speaking about it as candidly and often as possible.

It's possible, I went to a T1 and remember having a conversation with a prof on the admissions board about an ex-con (way worse than you) he admitted. He said he was compelled because the ex-con had clearly devoted his life in full to rectifying his mistakes. So its definitely possible, given the right circumstances.

However, if you don't get into Wisconsin, I'd caution you against taking on too much debt. You've got no assurances that you'll end up passing the bar C&F, so the risk/reward element of law school debt is heavily slanted for you. I'd put a premium on minimizing debt. If you're SERIOUS about law school (make sure), money at William Mitchell might not be a bad idea. (That is the first time I ever recommended William Mitchell.) Just know your prospects aren't going to be fabulous.



Thanks for the advice and candor. Yeah, Wisconsin is known for their innocence project and other programs which help inmates and convicts with legal services. So, they SHOULD be sympathetic to the situation and know that I would have empathy and personal experience in these areas that would be an asset to their law program. And I am very lucky as a lifelong WI resident applying to WI as they do love instate applicants :) I'm just getting nervous as it is my first choice.

Thanks again everyone :)
Btw, I'm female. haha I dunno if that matters any but many people have been using male pronouns :)

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txadv11
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby txadv11 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:18 pm

An unarmed female was shot by the PD?

Call Johnny Cochran right now. Take them down. Sue for not getting in to law school also and damages. Lol jk


But really good luck and Godspeed. You should have some motivation to stop these kinds Of injustices.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:18 pm

I guess now I'm wondering what my next steps should be. I have a felony conviction from 2007 (the incident happened in 2006). Is it normal to be dinged at so many schools like I have with a felony or did I ROYALLY screw something up in my C&F addendum? So should I take a year off and try reapplying next cycle with a better addendum or something? I really don't have time to do that because I'm 31 years old as it is. :/

My personal statement was fine. 160/3.78 and got dinged at a TON of schools I should have gotten into like Marquette, DePaul, Valparaiso, Northern Illinois... etc.

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glitter178
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby glitter178 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:25 pm

metallaura wrote:
danquayle wrote:
txadv11 wrote:Let me get this straight. You were unarmed and were shot by police? Now everything is better, and in disclosing the "incident" you are getting dinged with a GPA/LSAT well above 75% at many schools.

This could be an epic personal statement if you write it VERY carefully. If you decided to apply elsewhere, or again.


Agreed.

Kudos to TLS on this one, btw. Helpful and empathetic responses in a thread that could have degraded quickly. Xoxo-ness kept to a minimum.

OP... you're going to have to play this very, very carefully. One thing I've learned is that mistakes can be turned into great opportunities. That being said, it's going to shadow for you your entire life. I know people who've been dinged for mental C&F issues that seem petty. One person was C&F dinged (by the bar) because she'd gone through counseling in high school and early college (we're talking 19-20 years). She was dealing with bad breakups and some relatives dying, and proactively sought the help out before anything fell apart for her. I mean, that's precisely what we want people doing, right? But because of that, over half a decade later, a state considered her too unstable for legal practice.

The point of my story is that you're going to have to deal with this the rest of your life. It's going to be there, always. The best way to do that is to embrace it, as it seems you've done. As txad said, you can make this into a really, really compelling PS. You've mentioned Wisconsin has a great program for people in similar situaitons. I hope you specifically tied this event to Wisconsin's program? Sounds like, especially with your in-state status (Wisconsin loves in-staters) you could turn this into a very comeplling story for Wisconsin's adcomm. But you're only going to do that if you live up to in in fully painful detail. Anything less than FULL AND ABSOLUTE DISCLOSURE will come off obstruction, and that's what law schools are really worried about. The specific criminal events aren't so much as the issue as is the likelihood that you reoffend. You have to make it clear that won't happen, and that essentialy means speaking about it as candidly and often as possible.

It's possible, I went to a T1 and remember having a conversation with a prof on the admissions board about an ex-con (way worse than you) he admitted. He said he was compelled because the ex-con had clearly devoted his life in full to rectifying his mistakes. So its definitely possible, given the right circumstances.

However, if you don't get into Wisconsin, I'd caution you against taking on too much debt. You've got no assurances that you'll end up passing the bar C&F, so the risk/reward element of law school debt is heavily slanted for you. I'd put a premium on minimizing debt. If you're SERIOUS about law school (make sure), money at William Mitchell might not be a bad idea. (That is the first time I ever recommended William Mitchell.) Just know your prospects aren't going to be fabulous.



Thanks for the advice and candor. Yeah, Wisconsin is known for their innocence project and other programs which help inmates and convicts with legal services. So, they SHOULD be sympathetic to the situation and know that I would have empathy and personal experience in these areas that would be an asset to their law program. And I am very lucky as a lifelong WI resident applying to WI as they do love instate applicants :) I'm just getting nervous as it is my first choice.

Thanks again everyone :)
Btw, I'm female. haha I dunno if that matters any but many people have been using male pronouns :)



I'm sorry... WHAT? your friend went to counseling services and was dinged by the bar? I'm fucking blown away by this. I went to about (3-4) free counseling services when I was stressed in college, b/c my university offered them for free and I was feeling pressure. you mean to tell me i may not pass the bar because of it?

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red_alertz
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby red_alertz » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:42 pm

glitter178 wrote:
metallaura wrote:
danquayle wrote:
txadv11 wrote:Let me get this straight. You were unarmed and were shot by police? Now everything is better, and in disclosing the "incident" you are getting dinged with a GPA/LSAT well above 75% at many schools.

This could be an epic personal statement if you write it VERY carefully. If you decided to apply elsewhere, or again.


Agreed.

Kudos to TLS on this one, btw. Helpful and empathetic responses in a thread that could have degraded quickly. Xoxo-ness kept to a minimum.

OP... you're going to have to play this very, very carefully. One thing I've learned is that mistakes can be turned into great opportunities. That being said, it's going to shadow for you your entire life. I know people who've been dinged for mental C&F issues that seem petty. One person was C&F dinged (by the bar) because she'd gone through counseling in high school and early college (we're talking 19-20 years). She was dealing with bad breakups and some relatives dying, and proactively sought the help out before anything fell apart for her. I mean, that's precisely what we want people doing, right? But because of that, over half a decade later, a state considered her too unstable for legal practice.

The point of my story is that you're going to have to deal with this the rest of your life. It's going to be there, always. The best way to do that is to embrace it, as it seems you've done. As txad said, you can make this into a really, really compelling PS. You've mentioned Wisconsin has a great program for people in similar situaitons. I hope you specifically tied this event to Wisconsin's program? Sounds like, especially with your in-state status (Wisconsin loves in-staters) you could turn this into a very comeplling story for Wisconsin's adcomm. But you're only going to do that if you live up to in in fully painful detail. Anything less than FULL AND ABSOLUTE DISCLOSURE will come off obstruction, and that's what law schools are really worried about. The specific criminal events aren't so much as the issue as is the likelihood that you reoffend. You have to make it clear that won't happen, and that essentialy means speaking about it as candidly and often as possible.

It's possible, I went to a T1 and remember having a conversation with a prof on the admissions board about an ex-con (way worse than you) he admitted. He said he was compelled because the ex-con had clearly devoted his life in full to rectifying his mistakes. So its definitely possible, given the right circumstances.

However, if you don't get into Wisconsin, I'd caution you against taking on too much debt. You've got no assurances that you'll end up passing the bar C&F, so the risk/reward element of law school debt is heavily slanted for you. I'd put a premium on minimizing debt. If you're SERIOUS about law school (make sure), money at William Mitchell might not be a bad idea. (That is the first time I ever recommended William Mitchell.) Just know your prospects aren't going to be fabulous.



Thanks for the advice and candor. Yeah, Wisconsin is known for their innocence project and other programs which help inmates and convicts with legal services. So, they SHOULD be sympathetic to the situation and know that I would have empathy and personal experience in these areas that would be an asset to their law program. And I am very lucky as a lifelong WI resident applying to WI as they do love instate applicants :) I'm just getting nervous as it is my first choice.

Thanks again everyone :)
Btw, I'm female. haha I dunno if that matters any but many people have been using male pronouns :)



I'm sorry... WHAT? your friend went to counseling services and was dinged by the bar? I'm fucking blown away by this. I went to about (3-4) free counseling services when I was stressed in college, b/c my university offered them for free and I was feeling pressure. you mean to tell me i may not pass the bar because of it?


yeah, that's how it goes

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glitter178
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby glitter178 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:46 pm

yeah, i just read an article about it saying that "stress and other situational counseling" doesn't matter to the C&F. sometimes this website causes me way more stress than necessary.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:14 am

glitter178 wrote:yeah, i just read an article about it saying that "stress and other situational counseling" doesn't matter to the C&F. sometimes this website causes me way more stress than necessary.


Sigh, I'm just realizing what a determent to society it is that we don't allow people who've made mistakes in their lives to turn around and do great things. With all these roadblocks it's a wonder we have such an insanely huge prison population and recidivism rates compared to other countries. I mean, I've been very determined and working my butt off to put this shit behind me. I'm lucky I haven't gotten discouraged and given up with all these obstacles... many people may have. I refuse to give up though. I want to go to WI. I've been dinged at almost all the schools I've applied to. I'm just glad I cast a HUGE net otherwise I might not even be going to law school in fall.

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northwood
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby northwood » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:24 am

metallaura wrote:I guess now I'm wondering what my next steps should be. I have a felony conviction from 2007 (the incident happened in 2006). Is it normal to be dinged at so many schools like I have with a felony or did I ROYALLY screw something up in my C&F addendum? So should I take a year off and try reapplying next cycle with a better addendum or something? I really don't have time to do that because I'm 31 years old as it is. :/

My personal statement was fine. 160/3.78 and got dinged at a TON of schools I should have gotten into like Marquette, DePaul, Valparaiso, Northern Illinois... etc.



the felony conviction could have caused schools to take a pass on you. Was it for the suicide attempt? or something else?

FiveSermon
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby FiveSermon » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:44 am

northwood wrote:
metallaura wrote:I guess now I'm wondering what my next steps should be. I have a felony conviction from 2007 (the incident happened in 2006). Is it normal to be dinged at so many schools like I have with a felony or did I ROYALLY screw something up in my C&F addendum? So should I take a year off and try reapplying next cycle with a better addendum or something? I really don't have time to do that because I'm 31 years old as it is. :/

My personal statement was fine. 160/3.78 and got dinged at a TON of schools I should have gotten into like Marquette, DePaul, Valparaiso, Northern Illinois... etc.



the felony conviction could have caused schools to take a pass on you. Was it for the suicide attempt? or something else?


This. Convicted felon looks bad.

lateblooming
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby lateblooming » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:54 am

metallaura wrote:Sigh, I'm just realizing what a determent to society it is that we don't allow people who've made mistakes in their lives to turn around and do great things.


Not getting into a better law school because you had a standoff with police seems fairly logical to me. I empathize with your situation but perhaps you might pursue a career that doesn't involve upholding what you pretty fragrantly broke.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but people here I think are doing you a disservice with their kid gloves.

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applepiecrust
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby applepiecrust » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:55 am

glitter178 wrote:yeah, i just read an article about it saying that "stress and other situational counseling" doesn't matter to the C&F. sometimes this website causes me way more stress than necessary.


Seriously. I don't know whether to believe this or not. I mean, my school offers free counseling sessions too, and I used them because they serve as good sounding boards and help me clear my head (without burdening my friends with details of my everyday lives). And that could hold me from passing the bar?
Doesn't seem right to me.

P.S. OP, your situation sounds really frustrating. I would second the idea of calling an admissions counselor at one of the schools that dinged you, and politely (while affirming that you are by no means contesting the decision) ask what factors led to the denial and what you could have done differently.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:53 pm

northwood wrote:
metallaura wrote:I guess now I'm wondering what my next steps should be. I have a felony conviction from 2007 (the incident happened in 2006). Is it normal to be dinged at so many schools like I have with a felony or did I ROYALLY screw something up in my C&F addendum? So should I take a year off and try reapplying next cycle with a better addendum or something? I really don't have time to do that because I'm 31 years old as it is. :/

My personal statement was fine. 160/3.78 and got dinged at a TON of schools I should have gotten into like Marquette, DePaul, Valparaiso, Northern Illinois... etc.



the felony conviction could have caused schools to take a pass on you. Was it for the suicide attempt? or something else?
Last edited by metallaura on Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:53 pm

applepiecrust wrote:
glitter178 wrote:yeah, i just read an article about it saying that "stress and other situational counseling" doesn't matter to the C&F. sometimes this website causes me way more stress than necessary.


Seriously. I don't know whether to believe this or not. I mean, my school offers free counseling sessions too, and I used them because they serve as good sounding boards and help me clear my head (without burdening my friends with details of my everyday lives). And that could hold me from passing the bar?
Doesn't seem right to me.

P.S. OP, your situation sounds really frustrating. I would second the idea of calling an admissions counselor at one of the schools that dinged you, and politely (while affirming that you are by no means contesting the decision) ask what factors led to the denial and what you could have done differently.


I did. I called Marquette and was very polite just wondering and they wouldn't really help me.

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metallaura
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby metallaura » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:00 pm

lateblooming wrote:
metallaura wrote:Sigh, I'm just realizing what a determent to society it is that we don't allow people who've made mistakes in their lives to turn around and do great things.


Not getting into a better law school because you had a standoff with police seems fairly logical to me. I empathize with your situation but perhaps you might pursue a career that doesn't involve upholding what you pretty fragrantly broke.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but people here I think are doing you a disservice with their kid gloves.


I understand where you're coming from, but you must understand that it's very frustrating for me because what happened was so completely out of character for me. But I fully understand being judged because of it, especially by those who don't really know me. There are lots of different types of law. I can see not becoming an ADA but I'd like to use what I went through, and the lessons I learned in a positive way to make a difference. I am by no means a "criminal" although I am labeled one, and you may think I am one... I know in my heart and soul that I am a good person. What I did was not malicious, it was just really desperate and stupid. But, I can understand where you're coming from, as well as where the adcoms are coming from who dinged me. But put yourself in my shoes for one second. Have you ever done anything in your life that was so out of character for you? A brief moment of stupidity? A mistake? Unfortunately, mine was huge and will haunt me forever. But imagine being judged based on something that is just NOT who you are. It sucks :/

lateblooming
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby lateblooming » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:20 am

metallaura wrote:
lateblooming wrote:
metallaura wrote:Sigh, I'm just realizing what a determent to society it is that we don't allow people who've made mistakes in their lives to turn around and do great things.


Not getting into a better law school because you had a standoff with police seems fairly logical to me. I empathize with your situation but perhaps you might pursue a career that doesn't involve upholding what you pretty fragrantly broke.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but people here I think are doing you a disservice with their kid gloves.


I understand where you're coming from, but you must understand that it's very frustrating for me because what happened was so completely out of character for me. But I fully understand being judged because of it, especially by those who don't really know me. There are lots of different types of law. I can see not becoming an ADA but I'd like to use what I went through, and the lessons I learned in a positive way to make a difference. I am by no means a "criminal" although I am labeled one, and you may think I am one... I know in my heart and soul that I am a good person. What I did was not malicious, it was just really desperate and stupid. But, I can understand where you're coming from, as well as where the adcoms are coming from who dinged me. But put yourself in my shoes for one second. Have you ever done anything in your life that was so out of character for you? A brief moment of stupidity? A mistake? Unfortunately, mine was huge and will haunt me forever. But imagine being judged based on something that is just NOT who you are. It sucks :/


Humm.. where to start.

To be sure, I'm not judging you at all. I believe you when I say you are a good person, but I'm trying to inform you that ad-comms, LSAC, and the legal world don't need to take unnecessary risks on people. Between the Jewish Kenyan orphan with a 170 LSAT and the guy with a felony on his record, they don't really need any more details.

Life is unfair, I agree, but you're very capable of using this to your benefit.

If you are intent on going to law school, I would suggest retaking the LSAT after some intensive studying, then reapplying with a personal statement that uses about a half page on narrating what happened that night. Then you discuss how it changed you, how you persevered, and how you want to help people who are in the situation you faced through the legal profession. As others have suggested, be careful with this, it must be done deftly. You could certainly get plenty of help from the forums here...

I would also suggest getting a letter of recommendation from a police chief (preferably the one who oversaw your felony), city counselor, or someone who has the legitimacy to help absolve your guilt.

Best of luck, feel free to message me if you want to keep the convo going.

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danquayle
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby danquayle » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:56 pm

applepiecrust wrote:
glitter178 wrote:yeah, i just read an article about it saying that "stress and other situational counseling" doesn't matter to the C&F. sometimes this website causes me way more stress than necessary.


Seriously. I don't know whether to believe this or not. I mean, my school offers free counseling sessions too, and I used them because they serve as good sounding boards and help me clear my head (without burdening my friends with details of my everyday lives). And that could hold me from passing the bar?
Doesn't seem right to me.

P.S. OP, your situation sounds really frustrating. I would second the idea of calling an admissions counselor at one of the schools that dinged you, and politely (while affirming that you are by no means contesting the decision) ask what factors led to the denial and what you could have done differently.


Well, the person I referred to eventually did get in after protest. It's just a cautionary tale that C&F can be tricky and unpredictable. And because of that, it's best to be as painfully open and honest as possible. You certainly don't want to give them reasons to ding you.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby YankeesFan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:06 pm

I have been following this thread and I am still wondering if the OP is telling the whole story:

1. Unarmed women gets shot by police during a sucide attempt. Unless you were threatening to jump onto a gaggle of school children below or when the officer's escorted you from the ledge you tried to stab them. this plain and simple doesn't happen (against every regulation, protocol, SOP, etc).

However, if this really went down the way you said it did and you didn't get an attorney to press charges you kinda screwed yourself.

2. I am still trying to understand the conviction. You got a felony conviction for attempting to committ suicide? I have yet to find a state that 1) would prohibit suicide [unless its assisted] and 2) a DA that would actually enforce said law, unless you threatened to jump on a gaggle of school children/ attempted to assault the PO with a weapon when they confronted you.

Something doesn't add up...

sidhesadie
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby sidhesadie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:21 pm

Yeah, there has to be a smidge more to the story, op must have been armed.(or something that was an aggravating/threatening factor)

I think making your PS about this incident is really the only way you have a shot of getting past it with adcomms. They need more than an brief addendum to explain a police standoff resulting in a felony conviction.

It's hard to be really personal about things like this, and I understand why you don't want to do it here, but you have to do it in your apps.




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