Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

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romothesavior
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:32 pm

Borhas wrote:In short, IUB wants to be the next WUSTL.

This is not at all fair to WUSTL. I've said before that WUSTL is probably a little overrated when looking at biglaw. But the difference between our NLJ rank and our USNWR rank is like 5 or 6 spots. The difference between IUB's is at least over 25, maybe more. Not at all a fair comparison.

Pre-ITE, we were placing like 1/3 of our students into NLJ firms or clerkships that lead to NLJ firms. IUB was at what, like 10-15%ish maybe? If even that?

Sandro
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby Sandro » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:42 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Borhas wrote:In short, IUB wants to be the next WUSTL.

This is not at all fair to WUSTL. I've said before that WUSTL is probably a little overrated when looking at biglaw. But the difference between our NLJ rank and our USNWR rank is like 5 or 6 spots. The difference between IUB's is at least over 25, maybe more. Not at all a fair comparison.

Pre-ITE, we were placing like 1/3 of our students into NLJ firms or clerkships that lead to NLJ firms. IUB was at what, like 10-15%ish maybe? If even that?


Trying. Say IUb holds on to the 20 spot for the next 10 years straight, I dont think it would be that big of a stretch to say its NLJ+Clerkship would improve markedly. pre ITE IUb wasnt even T30 was it?

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Borhas
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby Borhas » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:46 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Borhas wrote:In short, IUB wants to be the next WUSTL.

This is not at all fair to WUSTL. I've said before that WUSTL is probably a little overrated when looking at biglaw. But the difference between our NLJ rank and our USNWR rank is like 5 or 6 spots. The difference between IUB's is at least over 25, maybe more. Not at all a fair comparison.

Pre-ITE, we were placing like 1/3 of our students into NLJ firms or clerkships that lead to NLJ firms. IUB was at what, like 10-15%ish maybe? If even that?


I think you misinterpreted me, but I wasn't clear so it's ok

WUSTL clearly places better, I was just saying IUB wanted to rise in rankings and stay up there like WUSTL. IUB also definitely wants to place like WUSTL, but I don't think that's going to pan out...

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Borhas
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby Borhas » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:52 pm

Sandro wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Borhas wrote:In short, IUB wants to be the next WUSTL.

This is not at all fair to WUSTL. I've said before that WUSTL is probably a little overrated when looking at biglaw. But the difference between our NLJ rank and our USNWR rank is like 5 or 6 spots. The difference between IUB's is at least over 25, maybe more. Not at all a fair comparison.

Pre-ITE, we were placing like 1/3 of our students into NLJ firms or clerkships that lead to NLJ firms. IUB was at what, like 10-15%ish maybe? If even that?


Trying. Say IUb holds on to the 20 spot for the next 10 years straight, I dont think it would be that big of a stretch to say its NLJ+Clerkship would improve markedly. pre ITE IUb wasnt even T30 was it?


It's a big stretch when there's data available to test the claim and the data goes against the claim... the other reason I brought up WUSTL was that for a long time WUSTL was in the 30's and then vaulted to the T20... it's been T20 for 6 years now w/ no apparent benefit.

Maybe 4 more years is the magic number but I kinda doubt it

Sandro
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby Sandro » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:06 pm

Borhas wrote:
Sandro wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Borhas wrote:In short, IUB wants to be the next WUSTL.

This is not at all fair to WUSTL. I've said before that WUSTL is probably a little overrated when looking at biglaw. But the difference between our NLJ rank and our USNWR rank is like 5 or 6 spots. The difference between IUB's is at least over 25, maybe more. Not at all a fair comparison.

Pre-ITE, we were placing like 1/3 of our students into NLJ firms or clerkships that lead to NLJ firms. IUB was at what, like 10-15%ish maybe? If even that?


Trying. Say IUb holds on to the 20 spot for the next 10 years straight, I dont think it would be that big of a stretch to say its NLJ+Clerkship would improve markedly. pre ITE IUb wasnt even T30 was it?


It's a big stretch when there's data available to test the claim and the data goes against the claim... the other reason I brought up WUSTL was that for a long time WUSTL was in the 30's and then vaulted to the T20... it's been T20 for 6 years now w/ no apparent benefit.

Maybe 4 more years is the magic number but I kinda doubt it


I'm not saying IUb would start placing like WUSTL but I think it could definitely approach the 10%+ levels that it currently has a hard time hitting.

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romothesavior
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:53 pm

Even if WUSTL or IUB sees an increase in NLJ numbers, let's not confuse causation for correlation.

For example, I could see WUSTL improving our NLJ numbers relative to our peers over the next few years due to some really impressive outreach by our CSO. The most recent NLJ data is for the c/o 2010, which means they did OCI in 2008. Say over the next year or two WUSTL's NLJ placement puts us in the low 20s (like 21-23). People will say "zomg! The rankings matter!" But I would say any potential increase in our NLJ numbers in the future would be due to changes in the CSO that took place around 2007-2008.

I don't know if this will actually pan out (although I think it could, but it is just semi-educated speculation). I'm just saying that there are other things besides the rankings that affect placement. Rankings don't matter. Hiring partners aren't sitting around and deciding where to do OCI based on the rankings. Outside of 0L-land and law school administrators, the rankings aren't a big deal.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby superflush » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:57 am

Desert Fox wrote:Indiana's law market is tiny. And it has Norte Dame to compete with. And even IU-Indy is competitive with it in Indianapolis their biggest city. And they have to compete with UChi, Michigan, and Northwestern students (all three draw IN students who go back).


I think you are exaggerating.

Baker & Daniels IU Maurer grads: 84
Baker & Daniels IU Indy grads: 74
Baker & Daniels Notre Dame grads: 21
Baker & Daniels Mich grads: 15
Baker & Daniels Chicago grads: 3
Baker & Daniels Northwestern grads: 10

Ice Miller IU Maurer grads: 54
Ice Miller IU Indy grads: 66
Ice Miller Notre Dame grads: 4
Ice Miller Mich grads: 7
Ice Miller Chicago grads: 4
Ice Miller Northwestern grads: 3

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superflush
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Re: Indiana: Bloomington & The New Rank

Postby superflush » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:09 am

Borhas wrote:There are also schools that are ranked FAR below IUB that perform equal or better... SMU, Loyola, Houston, Villanova, Georgia State, Pitt, BYU, Howard, and Temple for example (all these schools actually placed more into NLJ 250 in past two years than IUB). I'd bet someone that gets money from IUB could probably get money from those schools.


Yes, well those schools are located in cities with more NLJ 250 firms (with the exception of BYU).
Dallas' NLJ 250 firms: 7
Chicago's: 18
Houston: 5
Philly: 15
Atlanta: 10
Pittsburgh: 4 (though 2 of them are K&L Gates and Reed Smith)
DC: 15

Indy has 3.

These rankings don't show at all how the rest of the (80%+) students at these schools are doing.




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