You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

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paulinaporizkova

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:51 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

careful, you're walking into ban territory

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planQ

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby planQ » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:12 pm

Miracle wrote:172/173

below 3.0 GPA when applied

Michigan, Chicago!


What do you think made the difference? Were you in some sort of engineering/science major?

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helloperson

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby helloperson » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:14 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

careful, you're walking into ban territory


I think he meant to dispute the accuracy of LSP for URMs, not that the URMs should not have been admitted. And to that I reply

law school predictor accuracy page wrote:Underrepresented Minorities (URMs)

Target admit rates for URMs, based on how LSP renders predictions: (same method as non-URM applicants after URM boost is applied)
When LSP said Admit: >= 87%
When LSP said Strong Consider: ~ 69%
When LSP said Consider: ~ 50%
When LSP said Weak Consider: ~ 31%
When LSP said Deny: <= 13%

Based on the 4,300+ LSN 2008-09 decisions for self-identified URMs and with LSP URM feature enabled:
When LSP said Admit, 963 instances: 87.1%, +0.1%
When LSP said Strong Consider, 418 instances: 70.8%, +1.8%
When LSP said Consider, 1034 instances: 55.3%, +5.3%
When LSP said Weak Consider, 436 instances: 33.2%, +2.3%
When LSP said Deny, 1468 instances: 14.9%, +1.9%

Difference between actual URM admit rate and predicted URM admit rate: (prediction categories weighted evenly)
Average rate: +2.3%
Median rate: +1.9%


There's the "URM" box to check. DENY doesn't mean you will be denied, it means that applicants with numbers like yours are only admitted 15% of the time.

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Flustercluck

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby Flustercluck » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:17 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0


Well, I was sub 3.0 (2.68) and below the 170 LSAT median (168) and got into Northwestern ED (<5%), so your stated reasoning leaves something to be desired.

And, to be fair, the thread title doesn't say non-URM, and many URMs don't know where they stand because their admissions profiles can vary so widely. So if a URM is discouraged based on LSP, sees the thread title, and realizes that they may in fact have a chance based on the experiences shared here by fellow URMs, then it's perfectly appropriate for URMs to post their experiences here.

As to my acceptance, URM status was almost certainly a factor, but NU could have easily carried me over to Hold status and seen if there were URMs out there who would have helped one of their medians, given that I helped neither.

I think what helped my application is that despite my GPA, my post undergrad work experience showed a huge pattern of promotion to the point where I went from an office aid to a project manager for a political consulting and public relations firm in 2 1/2 years, and these promotions literally doubled my initial salary overthat timeframe. Also, I applied early, interviewed on campus (very strong interpersonal and interview skills), did every additional essay, and have great confidence in my strength as a writer.

Without those things, I'd just be a URM on the waitlist, so keep your trolling to yourself...
Last edited by Flustercluck on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Miracle

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby Miracle » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:24 pm

planQ wrote:
Miracle wrote:172/173

below 3.0 GPA when applied

Michigan, Chicago!


What do you think made the difference? Were you in some sort of engineering/science major?


Not an engineering major.

I have very unique background. very good softs. speak 6 diff. languages. etc.

My application was well put together.

cowgirl_bebop

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:30 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.

sch0123

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby sch0123 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:29 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.


I'd be willing to bet your WLs and rejection were YP.

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daniel5126

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby daniel5126 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:30 pm

i was considered deny by LSP at several schools and was denied by all those schools.

am I doing this right?

TOMaHULK

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby TOMaHULK » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:37 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:
TOMaHULK wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:
TOMaHULK wrote::shock: Wow this thread is awesome.

I had posted on the reach thread, but unfortunately I haven't made it into any "Deny" schools yet.

So what's the lowest percent "LSP Deny" so far? Was it 6%?

Congrats all that have been able to post in here.

Makes me wonder if it's too late to thrown some additional apps out there (SRS)... :?

GWU had me at <5%


Congrats! :P Same question for you as above...You just felt like you were applying no matter what, and wouldn't be swayed?


I applied before I took the October LSAT hoping to get a 170+, but I got a 167. Then I retook in December, totally blacked out during the test, and got a 166 :x

I thought that without that 170+ GW was totally off of the table, but I didnt withdraw. I was shocked when I got the email telling me I had been admitted! I think it was a combo of my URM status and my personal statement that helped. I wrote about growing up poor and having a mother diagnosed with brain cancer, and you know how adcomms feel about a good sob story :P


Well, I was a cancer survivor and I can assume you that I haven't gotten into any DENIES yet.

So, CONGRATS man! Be proud of yourself :!:

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby DreamShake » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:42 pm

helloperson wrote:
law school predictor accuracy page wrote:Underrepresented Minorities (URMs)

Target admit rates for URMs, based on how LSP renders predictions: (same method as non-URM applicants after URM boost is applied)
When LSP said Admit: >= 87%
When LSP said Strong Consider: ~ 69%
When LSP said Consider: ~ 50%
When LSP said Weak Consider: ~ 31%
When LSP said Deny: <= 13%

Based on the 4,300+ LSN 2008-09 decisions for self-identified URMs and with LSP URM feature enabled:
When LSP said Admit, 963 instances: 87.1%, +0.1%
When LSP said Strong Consider, 418 instances: 70.8%, +1.8%
When LSP said Consider, 1034 instances: 55.3%, +5.3%
When LSP said Weak Consider, 436 instances: 33.2%, +2.3%
When LSP said Deny, 1468 instances: 14.9%, +1.9%

Difference between actual URM admit rate and predicted URM admit rate: (prediction categories weighted evenly)
Average rate: +2.3%
Median rate: +1.9%


There's the "URM" box to check. DENY doesn't mean you will be denied, it means that applicants with numbers like yours are only admitted 15% of the time.


I think the level of uncertainty increases as you go up the rankings, to the point that LSP does become inadequate in much/all of the T14. Since there are so few URM's at/above the 25%'s, adcomms probably have to admit some URM's below the 25%'s, and these people probably compete only with each other--which would explain why some with worse numbers than others get in. Once you go below 25%, it doesn't much matter just how low the numbers are, because they'll all have equal effect on the 25/median/75, so adcomms can actually afford to pick and choose based on softs. Thus the unpredictability, especially when we often are reduced to viewing applicants on LSN/LSP based on #'s alone.

Regardless, some of these <5% decisions are sick accomplishments anyways. It obviously takes more than just URM status to get in when your numbers are that bad.

*edited for quote fail

TOMaHULK

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby TOMaHULK » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:55 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.


I know that's true for me. I also used Numbers website. I didn't want to "waste" app fee money on DENIES. I'm pretty sure that the schools I did not apply to would have been auto rejects however. But you're right, you never know if you never try...

paulinaporizkova

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:57 pm

sch0123 wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.


I'd be willing to bet your WLs and rejection were YP.

with a sub-3 GPA, i'm gonna have to disagree with that

cowgirl_bebop

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:01 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
sch0123 wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Some of URMs on here are claiming they got into schools they should not have. What BS. Everyone knows LSP is worthless for URMs. As a general rule, URMs are good to go with LSATs over 160 and GPAs over 3.0

Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.


I'd be willing to bet your WLs and rejection were YP.

with a sub-3 GPA, i'm gonna have to disagree with that


As will I. LSP had me as an admit at Miami, so the WL was a bit surprising, but whatevs. Fordham was a LONG shot, and Hastings apparently was just no interested, LOL

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby skeeter505_2 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:16 pm

I got into Utah with 152 and 3.44. Apparently I only had an 8% chance of being admitted, big surprise!

sch0123

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby sch0123 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:42 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
sch0123 wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Well as a sub-3.0 URM splitter, who knew where my cycle was going to go? And even with my 167, I was certainly not good to go, as Ive gotten 2 WLs (Fordham and Miami) and 1 reject (Hastings) so far.

I think this thread is good no matter if you are a URM or not. Lots of people use LSP as a tool to gauge what schools they should shoot for and many times dont send apps to schools where they get a solid DENY because they dont think they will get in.


I'd be willing to bet your WLs and rejection were YP.

with a sub-3 GPA, i'm gonna have to disagree with that


As will I. LSP had me as an admit at Miami, so the WL was a bit surprising, but whatevs. Fordham was a LONG shot, and Hastings apparently was just no interested, LOL


Yeah Fordham was the exception there. Miami was definitely YP with that Lsat and probably Hastings as well. I don't have any problem with URMs getting a bump, it just is the reality of the situation that a URM with a 3.2 and 164 is almost equivalent to a non-URM with a 3.5 and 169 at a lot of the schools in the 10-20 range.

Velvetvoice06

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby Velvetvoice06 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:44 pm

I personally think all of the stats are helpful and give me a lot of hope...REGARDLESS of race.

Thanks!

TOMaHULK

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby TOMaHULK » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:35 pm

skeeter505_2 wrote:I got into Utah with 152 and 3.44. Apparently I only had an 8% chance of being admitted, big surprise!


Post Count: 1

Whose 2nd account is this...? Someone fess up! :D

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hokie

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby hokie » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:56 pm

daniel5126 wrote:i was considered deny by LSP at several schools and was denied by all those schools.

am I doing this right?


lol +1: but seriously, this thread gives the people (who are waiting for a miracle) some hope!

subtle

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby subtle » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:31 am

Columbia!!


Suck it, LSP.

neonx

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby neonx » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:32 am

subtle wrote:Columbia!!


Suck it, LSP.


Yea, Columbia/NYU denies. Eat it, LSP!

Also... seriously, stop following me, subtle.

paulinaporizkova

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:33 am

TOMaHULK wrote:
skeeter505_2 wrote:I got into Utah with 152 and 3.44. Apparently I only had an 8% chance of being admitted, big surprise!


Post Count: 1

Whose 2nd account is this...? Someone fess up! :D

it's called an alt. HTH

subtle

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby subtle » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:35 am

neonx wrote:
subtle wrote:Columbia!!


Suck it, LSP.


Yea, Columbia/NYU denies. Eat it, LSP!

Also... seriously, stop following me, subtle.



Also, no. I am determined to make you my new BFF. We will conquer law school together.

neonx

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby neonx » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:38 am

subtle wrote:
neonx wrote:
subtle wrote:Columbia!!


Suck it, LSP.


Yea, Columbia/NYU denies. Eat it, LSP!

Also... seriously, stop following me, subtle.



Also, no. I am determined to make you my new BFF. We will conquer law school together.


I think a study group may be in the works. *wink*

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby southernsnapp » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:33 am

Cornell 3.5,157!

TOMaHULK

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Re: You were considered a"Deny" by LSP but actually got in!!!

Postby TOMaHULK » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:39 am

southernsnapp wrote:Cornell 3.5,157!


:shock: Very nice. Congrats to you.



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