WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

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jks14
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WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby jks14 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:15 am

Hello!
Right now I am on the WL at Gtown and UVA, two of my top choices.
At Gtown I am on the "preferred waitlist" and just the regular ol' wl at UVA.
The thing is I would like to make an offer to commit to one of these schools in hopes of increasing my chances.
Does anybody know which WL tends to move more, or who responds better to offers to commit?

Thanks for any and all advice!

dcbound
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby dcbound » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:19 am

Can you tell me a little more about this "offer to commit"? Does this simply mean assuring them in a LOCI that this is your top choice and you will absolutely attend on the spot if given the choice?

jks14
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby jks14 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:38 am

dcbound wrote:Can you tell me a little more about this "offer to commit"? Does this simply mean assuring them in a LOCI that this is your top choice and you will absolutely attend on the spot if given the choice?


Right, just promising to attend if admitted, or maybe even offering to sign an ED contract? I'm not sure how it works or how binding any of it would be w/o a contract, but I don't think I could promise to attend both.

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LLB2JD
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby LLB2JD » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:45 am

jks14 wrote:
dcbound wrote:Can you tell me a little more about this "offer to commit"? Does this simply mean assuring them in a LOCI that this is your top choice and you will absolutely attend on the spot if given the choice?


Right, just promising to attend if admitted, or maybe even offering to sign an ED contract? I'm not sure how it works or how binding any of it would be w/o a contract, but I don't think I could promise to attend both.



For schools like Georgetown and UVA, you can be guaranteed that there are plenty of people who write them promising to attend if admitted. So I'll say just doing that would most likely not be enough. You might need to perhaps, visit, sit on a class, stalk the adcomms. e.t.c.





P.S. You can disregard the stalking part, but you get my drift.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:49 am

you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell. people with 3.9/172s get waitlisted. you also can't send an ED contract in after a decision has been rendered. sounds like your best bet is maybe georgetown if you write some letters of continued interest or something.

and yeah, i think writing and saying youll definitely attend makes you look kind of stupid

CanadianWolf
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:06 pm

If you are able & willing to pay sticker, then a LOCI can't hurt.

dcbound
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby dcbound » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:19 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:and yeah, i think writing and saying youll definitely attend makes you look kind of stupid



This may be true at some t14 schools........I dunno. But I'd say that some other schools actually want to this kind of interest.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:25 pm

dcbound wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:and yeah, i think writing and saying youll definitely attend makes you look kind of stupid



This may be true at some t14 schools........I dunno. But I'd say that some other schools actually want to this kind of interest.


i guess i say this because i did the same thing (via email) at a similarly ranked school which i could not ED to...and i got rejected. and my numbers are not bad. it was kind of embarrassing.

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lastch2
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby lastch2 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:26 pm

dcbound wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:and yeah, i think writing and saying youll definitely attend makes you look kind of stupid



This may be true at some t14 schools........I dunno. But I'd say that some other schools actually want to this kind of interest.


i agree..i think if schools are looking between WL candidates and one candidate promised to attend and the other has been silent with similar apps it seems like a no brainer who they're going to admit. i mean at the WL point in life begging should not be beneath you.

edit: incomprehensible

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soullesswonder
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby soullesswonder » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:57 pm

lastch2 wrote:
dcbound wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:and yeah, i think writing and saying youll definitely attend makes you look kind of stupid



This may be true at some t14 schools........I dunno. But I'd say that some other schools actually want to this kind of interest.


i agree..i think if schools are looking between WL candidates and one candidate promised to attend and the other has been silent with similar apps it seems like a no brainer who they're going to admit. i mean at the WL point in life begging should not be beneath you.

edit: incomprehensible


Co-signed. It's a common practice, and even if you do "look stupid," who cares what the admins think about you if they weren't going to admit you anyway? (Within reason, of course - bitchiness and other juvenile behavior isn't recommended)

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jwrash
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby jwrash » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:23 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA

this

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fastforward
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby fastforward » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:51 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

Actually, this has to do with yield protection. It's a great deal more complicated than it seems. We wrote a blog post (LinkRemoved) about this recently. If you want to see who YPs, look at the last full cycle (2009-2010) on LSN. A yellow cluster in the top-right corner is a pretty compelling suggestion of YP. It also tells how a school uses its waitlist. On the other hand, being waitlisted does not necessarily mean you are a victim of YP. I'm not saying whether any particular school YPs; you can draw your own conclusions from viewing the graphs. And I don't intend to oversimplify the process; it is complex and involves many other factors such as class size, ED policy, etc. But how else is the yellow (or green) blob accounted for?

A person with non-YP numbers is far more likely to get an offer of admission from the waitlist of a YP school than those with high numbers.

Historically, not many applicants see movement from the UVA waitlist. Georgetown, with its sea of green in the top right corner, offers admission each spring-into-summer to a flood of applicants from the waitlist.

This only makes sense, because once applicants with the very top scores begin committing to a school, they withdraw from GULC and places begin to open up. Schools that have not made offers to the highest-scoring applicants do not have the same flood of spring withdrawals.

BTW, anecdotally from here and LSN, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rhyme or reason to GULC's regular, preferred and special preferred waitlist scheme. Here's a link to last year's WL thread for GULC that recounts the saga.

dcbound
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby dcbound » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:58 pm

fastforward wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

Actually, this has to do with yield protection. It's a great deal more complicated than it seems. We wrote a blog post (LinkRemoved) about this recently. If you want to see who YPs, look at the last full cycle (2009-2010) on LSN. A yellow cluster in the top-right corner is a pretty compelling suggestion of YP. It also tells how a school uses its waitlist. On the other hand, being waitlisted does not necessarily mean you are a victim of YP. I'm not saying whether any particular school YPs; you can draw your own conclusions from viewing the graphs. And I don't intend to oversimplify the process; it is complex and involves many other factors such as class size, ED policy, etc. But how else is the yellow (or green) blob accounted for?

A person with non-YP numbers is far more likely to get an offer of admission from the waitlist of a YP school than those with high numbers.

Historically, not many applicants see movement from the UVA waitlist. Georgetown, with its sea of green in the top right corner, offers admission each spring-into-summer to a flood of applicants from the waitlist.

This only makes sense, because once applicants with the very top scores begin committing to a school, they withdraw from GULC and places begin to open up. Schools that have not made offers to the highest-scoring applicants do not have the same flood of spring withdrawals.

BTW, anecdotally from here and LSN, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rhyme or reason to GULC's regular, preferred and special preferred waitlist scheme. Here's a link to last year's WL thread for GULC that recounts the saga.



You very well may not. But do you have any insight into previous years movements on GWU wait lists??

Thanks....

bdubs
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:04 pm

fastforward wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

Actually, this has to do with yield protection. It's a great deal more complicated than it seems. We wrote a blog post (LinkRemoved) about this recently. If you want to see who YPs, look at the last full cycle (2009-2010) on LSN. A yellow cluster in the top-right corner is a pretty compelling suggestion of YP. It also tells how a school uses its waitlist. On the other hand, being waitlisted does not necessarily mean you are a victim of YP. I'm not saying whether any particular school YPs; you can draw your own conclusions from viewing the graphs. And I don't intend to oversimplify the process; it is complex and involves many other factors such as class size, ED policy, etc. But how else is the yellow (or green) blob accounted for?

A person with non-YP numbers is far more likely to get an offer of admission from the waitlist of a YP school than those with high numbers.

Historically, not many applicants see movement from the UVA waitlist. Georgetown, with its sea of green in the top right corner, offers admission each spring-into-summer to a flood of applicants from the waitlist.

This only makes sense, because once applicants with the very top scores begin committing to a school, they withdraw from GULC and places begin to open up. Schools that have not made offers to the highest-scoring applicants do not have the same flood of spring withdrawals.

BTW, anecdotally from here and LSN, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rhyme or reason to GULC's regular, preferred and special preferred waitlist scheme. Here's a link to last year's WL thread for GULC that recounts the saga.


That makes no sense. If someone with high numbers rides out the WL, they still have interest in the school. When the school is trying to compose its class on a statistical basis, they will always prefer a high numbers person to attend than a low numbers person.

If you are WL'ed at GULC, it is unlikely you will get off the WL at UVA. This might be different though if you are in state, since in state has a reserved number of spots and the yield concerns for in state are probably not there (hence a poor yield).

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:08 pm

bdubs wrote:
fastforward wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

Actually, this has to do with yield protection. It's a great deal more complicated than it seems. We wrote a blog post (LinkRemoved) about this recently. If you want to see who YPs, look at the last full cycle (2009-2010) on LSN. A yellow cluster in the top-right corner is a pretty compelling suggestion of YP. It also tells how a school uses its waitlist. On the other hand, being waitlisted does not necessarily mean you are a victim of YP. I'm not saying whether any particular school YPs; you can draw your own conclusions from viewing the graphs. And I don't intend to oversimplify the process; it is complex and involves many other factors such as class size, ED policy, etc. But how else is the yellow (or green) blob accounted for?

A person with non-YP numbers is far more likely to get an offer of admission from the waitlist of a YP school than those with high numbers.

Historically, not many applicants see movement from the UVA waitlist. Georgetown, with its sea of green in the top right corner, offers admission each spring-into-summer to a flood of applicants from the waitlist.

This only makes sense, because once applicants with the very top scores begin committing to a school, they withdraw from GULC and places begin to open up. Schools that have not made offers to the highest-scoring applicants do not have the same flood of spring withdrawals.

BTW, anecdotally from here and LSN, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rhyme or reason to GULC's regular, preferred and special preferred waitlist scheme. Here's a link to last year's WL thread for GULC that recounts the saga.


That makes no sense. If someone with high numbers rides out the WL, they still have interest in the school. When the school is trying to compose its class on a statistical basis, they will always prefer a high numbers person to attend than a low numbers person.

If you are WL'ed at GULC, it is unlikely you will get off the WL at UVA. This might be different though if you are in state, since in state has a reserved number of spots and the yield concerns for in state are probably not there (hence a poor yield).


i think he's saying that people with higher numbers will commit to higher ranked schools instead of waiting it out. it's likely that they applied (with higher #s) because they maybe wanted to get money from that school, which is more unlikely when you get admitted super late in the cycle off the waitlist.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:11 pm

fastforward wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

Actually, this has to do with yield protection. It's a great deal more complicated than it seems. We wrote a blog post (LinkRemoved) about this recently. If you want to see who YPs, look at the last full cycle (2009-2010) on LSN. A yellow cluster in the top-right corner is a pretty compelling suggestion of YP. It also tells how a school uses its waitlist. On the other hand, being waitlisted does not necessarily mean you are a victim of YP. I'm not saying whether any particular school YPs; you can draw your own conclusions from viewing the graphs. And I don't intend to oversimplify the process; it is complex and involves many other factors such as class size, ED policy, etc. But how else is the yellow (or green) blob accounted for?

A person with non-YP numbers is far more likely to get an offer of admission from the waitlist of a YP school than those with high numbers.

Historically, not many applicants see movement from the UVA waitlist. Georgetown, with its sea of green in the top right corner, offers admission each spring-into-summer to a flood of applicants from the waitlist.

This only makes sense, because once applicants with the very top scores begin committing to a school, they withdraw from GULC and places begin to open up. Schools that have not made offers to the highest-scoring applicants do not have the same flood of spring withdrawals.

BTW, anecdotally from here and LSN, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rhyme or reason to GULC's regular, preferred and special preferred waitlist scheme. Here's a link to last year's WL thread for GULC that recounts the saga.


yes, but the sheer number of waitlists at UVA in relation to rejects seems kind of excessive. if you look at other schools known for YPing in the t10 (penn, mich) they have much smaller waitlists.

bdubs
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:24 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:i think he's saying that people with higher numbers will commit to higher ranked schools instead of waiting it out. it's likely that they applied (with higher #s) because they maybe wanted to get money from that school, which is more unlikely when you get admitted super late in the cycle off the waitlist.


I'm just saying #s wise there are probably lots of people who get WL'ed by UVA and get into GULC who would be willing to ride out the UVA waitlist to take one of those last spots. Those people would presumably have preferable #s to someone who gets WL'ed at GULC.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:25 pm

bdubs wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:i think he's saying that people with higher numbers will commit to higher ranked schools instead of waiting it out. it's likely that they applied (with higher #s) because they maybe wanted to get money from that school, which is more unlikely when you get admitted super late in the cycle off the waitlist.


I'm just saying #s wise there are probably lots of people who get WL'ed by UVA and get into GULC who would be willing to ride out the UVA waitlist to take one of those last spots. Those people would presumably have preferable #s to someone who gets WL'ed at GULC.


yeah i agree. when i saw OP first thing i thought was, hmmm, waitlisted at GULC? it was a soft reject at UVA

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fastforward
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby fastforward » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:42 pm

bdubs wrote:That makes no sense. If someone with high numbers rides out the WL, they still have interest in the school.


Whoa, major unwarranted assumption. Each year hundreds of high-numbers applicants blanket the top twenty schools with applications and don't bother to withdraw from the ones they don't select until they are finished with scholly negotiations, or deciding from among YHS, even though they have no intention of attending, for example, Michigan. Just look at the data/dates from years past on LSN. Anecdotally, we see posters here who are clear that they have narrowed the decision yet don't withdraw from schools they no longer consider. It's not the most compassionate thing, but it's not pernicious, either: It's just so final to withdraw.

A high-numbers applicant usually will get an offer if they take steps to convince a YP waitlist school they will attend if offered. Those are the green specks in the yellow sea. If you search the forums, you'll find that a YPWL often is offered $$$ after convincing the school they will attend if asked.

bdubs wrote: When the school is trying to compose its class on a statistical basis, they will always prefer a high numbers person to attend than a low numbers person.


"Always"? Really?? Once again, I refer you to the big yellow blob in the upper-right-hand corner of the graphs from the last complete cycle (2009-2010) of certain schools. :)

bdubs
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:51 pm

fastforward wrote:
bdubs wrote:That makes no sense. If someone with high numbers rides out the WL, they still have interest in the school.


Whoa, major unwarranted assumption. Each year hundreds of high-numbers applicants blanket the top twenty schools with applications and don't bother to withdraw from the ones they don't select until they are finished with scholly negotiations, or deciding from among YHS, even though they have no intention of attending, for example, Michigan. Just look at the data/dates from years past on LSN. Anecdotally, we see posters here who are clear that they have narrowed the decision yet don't withdraw from schools they no longer consider. It's not the most compassionate thing, but it's not pernicious, either: It's just so final to withdraw.

A high-numbers applicant usually will get an offer if they take steps to convince a YP waitlist school they will attend if offered. Those are the green specks in the yellow sea. If you search the forums, you'll find that a YPWL often is offered $$$ after convincing the school they will attend if asked.

bdubs wrote: When the school is trying to compose its class on a statistical basis, they will always prefer a high numbers person to attend than a low numbers person.


"Always"? Really?? Once again, I refer you to the big yellow blob in the upper-right-hand corner of the graphs from the last complete cycle (2009-2010) of certain schools. :)


This is why schools contact people on their waitlist to gauge their level of interest in attending the school.

Don't most schools wait until after the first seat deposit to even consider the waitlist anyway? Most people know that the chances of a generous scholarship dwindle as you go forward, in fact lots of people assume that a WL-Accept means no scholarship at all. You may find that YP-WL get $$$ but they have to convince someone that they will attend, part of that is waiting to make WL offers until way after the easy negotiating has passed.

The "always" was a little strong, but it seems like lots of schools do rank order their WL despite saying they don't.

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vanwinkle
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:58 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:you can't really get off the waitlist at UVA. they waitlist waaaay more people than they reject, for no good reason as far as i can tell.

In past years the school would often take 30-50 people off the WL per year, and their system was designed this way. They have not accepted anyone off the WL the last couple years in a row because of unexpected increases in yield causing overenrollment. Because they would end up overenrolled, no spots opened up even after people who paid deposits decided not to attend. The last couple years in a row they've lowered the number of acceptances offered and the yield still rose enough to cause them to overenroll.

The UVA adcomms are actually hoping to go back to the way things were, where they weren't overenrolled and the WL was actually used over the summer. That's preferable to them since it lets them manage things better than overenrolling and having to offer deferral scholarships and reject the entire WL just to maintain a proper class size. The yield rate can't keep increasing forever, and they do keep cutting their initial acceptance numbers, so it should return to normal at some point.

paulinaporizkova wrote:people with 3.9/172s get waitlisted.

This is called "yield protection" and was already discussed.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:06 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:people with 3.9/172s get waitlisted.

This is called "yield protection" and was already discussed.


ah yes. i wasn't aware of this before

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fastforward
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Re: WL Advice/ Help!!! Georgetown and UVA

Postby fastforward » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:15 pm

vanwinkle wrote:In past years the school would often take 30-50 people off the WL per year, and their system was designed this way. They have not accepted anyone off the WL the last couple years in a row because of unexpected increases in yield causing overenrollment. Because they would end up overenrolled, no spots opened up even after people who paid deposits decided not to attend. The last couple years in a row they've lowered the number of acceptances offered and the yield still rose enough to cause them to overenroll.

The UVA adcomms are actually hoping to go back to the way things were, where they weren't overenrolled and the WL was actually used over the summer. That's preferable to them since it lets them manage things better than overenrolling and having to offer deferral scholarships and reject the entire WL just to maintain a proper class size. The yield rate can't keep increasing forever, and they do keep cutting their initial acceptance numbers, so it should return to normal at some point.


UVA is not the only school that found itself over enrolled last year. My opinion is that this cycle is noticeably slow and I suspect it may be that schools are delaying decisions in order to better size up the applicant pool.




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