William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

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jhw123
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William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:13 am

Hello all,

I have been accepted to William and Mary with basically a full ride (Graduate Fellowship) and UT Austin with no $ (out of state).

In terms of geographer location, I'm not sure where I want to practice; I like to move often, even if this means taking the bar in multiple states. What do you think is the better bet?

Also, Since I prefer UT to W&M, I am going to try to negotiate for $. Does anyone know if this can be done (considering W&M's lower rating)?

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byronmullens
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby byronmullens » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:22 am

jhw123 wrote:Hello all,

I have been accepted to William and Mary with basically a full ride (Graduate Fellowship) and UT Austin with no $ (out of state).

In terms of geographer location, I'm not sure where I want to practice; I like to move often, even if this means taking the bar in multiple states. What do you think is the better bet?

Also, Since I prefer UT to W&M, I am going to try to negotiate for $. Does anyone know if this can be done (considering W&M's lower rating)?

Are there any stipulations to the fellowship at William and Mary?

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:34 am

Where do you live?

I am under the impression that a fellowship at William and Mary is only worth 14k a year, which is not a full ride.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:10 am

It's a fellowship with 4k/year + an additional 10K for year separate scholarship at an in-state price, though I am out of state. It requires eight hours of work/week.

Just to let you know my stats, I got a 166, 3.74. I was wait-listed at Cornell and Vandy. Assuming I don't get in, Texas will be the best school I can get into.

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:13 am

jhw123 wrote:It's a fellowship with 4k/year + an additional 10K for year separate scholarship at an in-state price, though I am out of state. It requires eight hours of work/week.

Just to let you know my stats, I got a 166, 3.74. I was wait-listed at Cornell and Vandy. Assuming I don't get in, Texas will be the best school I can get into.


Ah OK, the typical fellowship was just in-state tuition + 4k/year while you work. So you got grad fellowship + additional money. If you want Texas + south, then go to Texas. Are you in-state for Texas?

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:18 am

Actually, I'm not sure if the 10K is for each year. The letter was very vague... "10K for three consecutive years of study." Anyone know for sure what this means?

Also got 35K/year from Wash + Lee, no stipulations making it about 6K total out of pocket.

CanadianWolf
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:21 am

In-state at Texas deserves serious consideration--especially since the terms of your Wm. & Mary scholarship are uncertain.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:22 am

brose wrote:
jhw123 wrote:It's a fellowship with 4k/year + an additional 10K for year separate scholarship at an in-state price, though I am out of state. It requires eight hours of work/week.

Just to let you know my stats, I got a 166, 3.74. I was wait-listed at Cornell and Vandy. Assuming I don't get in, Texas will be the best school I can get into.


Ah OK, the typical fellowship was just in-state tuition + 4k/year while you work. So you got grad fellowship + additional money. If you want Texas + south, then go to Texas. Are you in-state for Texas?



No, I'm from New Jersey. I like Austin, but I've never been anywhere else in Texas. Like I said, I don't like to stay in the same place for too long, making the whole "go with geography" thing a bit tougher. It might just mean that I should really go to a 'national' school then, no? UT's not bargain for out of staters, though.

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northwood
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby northwood » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:24 am

contact william mary to get a definate answer about the money.

Since you are happy with moving, go to the best school with the best job prospects, and best money offered. ( you will have to compromise those criteria). Know that you will be commititing the beginning of your legal career in that region after graduation, so make a careful choice. best of luck.

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:25 am

Texas is expensive for out of state, has more national reach.

Do you have your scholly letter handy? I'm pretty sure it's 10k/year (to reduce the tuition to in-state tuition) and 4k/yr for working. It would say you received additional if you received anything more than the total of 14k/yr. So I think you have 42k total for W & M, not 72k. I would email/call and ask, they're pretty quick returning messages.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:30 am

..to break down the figures

Washington and Lee ~$3,100/year

William and Mary ~ $7,600 or in the case where 10k is one time (likely?) $14,300/year

Texas ~ $42,800 (ouch.. I'll try to get more $)

Could still potentially get $ from BU and/or BC.

Bottom line: wish NJ had better state law schools (though I'd likely never move back long-term).

To brose: It is an additional 10K more, that's for sure. The question is whether it's just a one-time thing.

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:38 am

If you got the fellowship, then it is 10,000/year that is redeemed each year you keep the academic requirement. The 4,000 is also for each year if you work.

Therefore, the baseline graduate fellowship is 14,000/year (and you have to maintain out of state residency).

If you received an additional 10,000, it's going to be off each year. So, 24,000 is taken off the out-of-state rate, giving you a grand total of 72,000 scholarship. Either way, you need to ask since it's a significant chunk of change.

ETA: http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants

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2011Cycle
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby 2011Cycle » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:40 am

jhw123 wrote:..to break down the figures

Washington and Lee ~$3,100/year

William and Mary ~ $7,600 or in the case where 10k is one time (likely?) $14,300/year

Texas ~ $42,800 (ouch.. I'll try to get more $)

Could still potentially get $ from BU and/or BC.

Bottom line: wish NJ had better state law schools (though I'd likely never move back long-term).

To brose: It is an additional 10K more, that's for sure. The question is whether it's just a one-time thing.


First Year Student
Fall/Spring Budget 2010 – 2011
Expenses Resident Non-Resident
Tuition & Fees $29,640 $45,720 Considering the State of Texas' budget issues -- likely to increase by at least 4%
Books & Supplies $1,130 $1,130
Room & Board $10,250 $10,250
Travel $1,200 $1,200
Misc $2,950 $2,950
Total $45,170 $61,250

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tttlllsss
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby tttlllsss » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:55 am

jhw123 wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if the 10K is for each year. The letter was very vague... "10K for three consecutive years of study." Anyone know for sure what this means?

Also got 35K/year from Wash + Lee, no stipulations making it about 6K total out of pocket.


I got the same offer, and it's roughly $69k, total. First, the $10k doesn't have stipulations, it's not part of the grad fellowship, and it renews each year. Second, the amount of the grad fellowship itself is intended to bridge the gap b/w out-of-state & in-state tuition. That is, you don't get the in-state rate in addition to the amount of the grad fellowship. The fellowship requires a B-average, and since W&M supposedly curves to a 3.3, that means being above the 30th percentile or so (can't be in the bottom 30% of the class).

So, no, neither you nor I have a full-ride at W&M; this school doesn't give full-rides.

Edit: Typo - changed "$69k/yr" to "$69k, total"
Last edited by tttlllsss on Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:56 am

The upping of UT's rates is annoying; thanks for pointing it out. The books and board, though, would apply anywhere I go to school. Also, I would surmise that the price hikes could happen to basically any school I apply to... courtesy of our shitty economy and 'cause they can.

I'm thankful all the info so far, but I'm still really jonesing for those definitive votes: UT, Wash + Lee or W + M? My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy to pay big bucks for school when I could get it on the cheap, but then again, he's not a TLS-er.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:02 pm

tttlllsss wrote:
jhw123 wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if the 10K is for each year. The letter was very vague... "10K for three consecutive years of study." Anyone know for sure what this means?

Also got 35K/year from Wash + Lee, no stipulations making it about 6K total out of pocket.


I got the same offer, and it's roughly $69k/yr. First, the $10k doesn't have stipulations, it's not part of the grad fellowship, and it renews each year. Second, the amount of the grad fellowship itself is intended to bridge the gap b/w out-of-state & in-state tuition. That is, you don't get the in-state rate in addition to the amount of the grad fellowship. The fellowship requires a B-average, and since W&M supposedly curves to a 3.3, that means being above the 30th percentile or so (can't be in the bottom 30% of the class).

So, no, neither you nor I have a full-ride at W&M; this school doesn't give full-rides.


No. Either we didn't get the same fellowship or you misunderstood what they said.

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:05 pm

Lol. ttttlllsss is right. It's around 70k total.

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2011Cycle
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby 2011Cycle » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:11 pm

jhw123 wrote:The upping of UT's rates is annoying; thanks for pointing it out. The books and board, though, would apply anywhere I go to school. Also, I would surmise that the price hikes could happen to basically any school I apply to... courtesy of our shitty economy and 'cause they can.

I'm thankful all the info so far, but I'm still really jonesing for those definitive votes: UT, Wash + Lee or W + M? My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy to pay big bucks for school when I could get it on the cheap, but then again, he's not a TLS-er.


In my opinion, if you do not desire a 'biglaw' practice position immediately following graduation, attend William and Mary.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:20 pm

jhw123 wrote:
tttlllsss wrote:
jhw123 wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if the 10K is for each year. The letter was very vague... "10K for three consecutive years of study." Anyone know for sure what this means?

Also got 35K/year from Wash + Lee, no stipulations making it about 6K total out of pocket.


I got the same offer, and it's roughly $69k/yr. First, the $10k doesn't have stipulations, it's not part of the grad fellowship, and it renews each year. Second, the amount of the grad fellowship itself is intended to bridge the gap b/w out-of-state & in-state tuition. That is, you don't get the in-state rate in addition to the amount of the grad fellowship. The fellowship requires a B-average, and since W&M supposedly curves to a 3.3, that means being above the 30th percentile or so (can't be in the bottom 30% of the class).

So, no, neither you nor I have a full-ride at W&M; this school doesn't give full-rides.


No. Either we didn't get the same fellowship or you misunderstood what they said.


On further consideration, I think we're trying to say the same thing in different ways. I'm saying that I would have to pay around 7k/year to attend, which means around 69k total scholarship (not per year). I think you might be mistaken about the 4k for the grad fellowship, b/c the letter says "waiver of out of state tuition... and stipend" (4000). Maybe that's what you meant. In any case, I'm more curious what people's opinions are about a very generous offer from W&M v. no $ from UT.

(I said 'basically a full ride' because I could afford 7K/year without going into debt; not so for 45K.)
Last edited by jhw123 on Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swimmergirl1303
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby swimmergirl1303 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:24 pm

Hey I'm in a similar position as you. I got a good chunk of change from William & Mary and U Illinois but no money from Texas. I've been WLed at UPenn and UVirginia. I am going to wait to see if I get into any schools ranked higher (wo $) than UT and at that time attempt to negotiate scholarship with them. Let me know how it pans out for you!

I can tell you that I talked to a few practicing lawyers at Latham & Watkins and they all said that it would be better to go to UT even with debt. UT has more national respect even if it isn't T14.

jhw123
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby jhw123 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:36 pm

swimmergirl1303 wrote:Hey I'm in a similar position as you. I got a good chunk of change from William & Mary and U Illinois but no money from Texas. I've been WLed at UPenn and UVirginia. I am going to wait to see if I get into any schools ranked higher (wo $) than UT and at that time attempt to negotiate scholarship with them. Let me know how it pans out for you!

I can tell you that I talked to a few practicing lawyers at Latham & Watkins and they all said that it would be better to go to UT even with debt. UT has more national respect even if it isn't T14.



Hey, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but UT actually has an official process for considering whether to give more $ (you should check it out on their website). They say that they only consider based on actual scholarship offers you have received from other schools. By that logic, it would seem that the best thing to do would be to get $ from schools that are without a doubt peer institutions (say, Cornell or Vandy) rather than simple acceptance to an even higher ranked school. Maybe you should even apply to some you're really not interested in at all, just for the leverage. Of course, if you got $ from UVA, UPenn then I'm sure you could successfully use it against UT. Much merit money is probably not likely as a waitlist candidate, though. Also, if you got $ from those schools, why wouldn't you just go there? (I have to say, though, Austin is much better than Philly).

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swimmergirl1303
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby swimmergirl1303 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:46 pm

jhw123 wrote:
swimmergirl1303 wrote:Hey I'm in a similar position as you. I got a good chunk of change from William & Mary and U Illinois but no money from Texas. I've been WLed at UPenn and UVirginia. I am going to wait to see if I get into any schools ranked higher (wo $) than UT and at that time attempt to negotiate scholarship with them. Let me know how it pans out for you!

I can tell you that I talked to a few practicing lawyers at Latham & Watkins and they all said that it would be better to go to UT even with debt. UT has more national respect even if it isn't T14.



Hey, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but UT actually has an official process for considering whether to give more $ (you should check it out on their website). They say that they only consider based on actual scholarship offers you have received from other schools. By that logic, it would seem that the best thing to do would be to get $ from schools that are without a doubt peer institutions (say, Cornell or Vandy) rather than simple acceptance to an even higher ranked school. Maybe you should even apply to some you're really not interested in at all, just for the leverage. Of course, if you got $ from UVA, UPenn then I'm sure you could successfully use it against UT. Much merit money is probably not likely as a waitlist candidate, though. Also, if you got $ from those schools, why wouldn't you just go there? (I have to say, though, Austin is much better than Philly).



It seems a little late to apply just to leverage money. I guess I won't worry about it then/ I feel like its bad karma. I totally didn't know about the website but that but that's very useful. Any chance you could PM the link to me?

And yes, if I get into Berkeley or NU or even GTown its byebye Longhorns. I've never been to the schools I was WLed at so I don't know how I feel about them. I'm going to try to visit Virgnia. But I just don't know if I can handle waiting til June to get a decision.

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bender18
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby bender18 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:31 pm

.
Last edited by bender18 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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brose
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby brose » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:37 pm

bender18 wrote:I'm actually a little confused about my W&M scholarship as well. It says "The Graduate Fellowship total value will be $13,000 for the 2011-12 academic year." To my understanding, $10,000 of those dollars is the waiver to not pay for out-of-state tuition... correct? Fortunately, I also also received another scholarship, giving me a total of $25,000/year.

Anyone know how much I would be paying out of my pocket if you include the typical COL and other expenses per year at W&M?

And this may be slightly off topic, but I also received a full-tuition scholarship from W&L which gives about $40,800 per year. Which do you guys think is the more attractive offer? Is the more money that it will take to go to W&M worth it?


Yes, the 10,000 is instate tuition equalization. W & M recommends taking out 49,100 for out of state... so if subtracted your scholly, you'd take out 16k/year? This, of course, can be smaller if you live like a student (roommate, etc.)

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tttlllsss
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Re: William and Mary $$$ vs. UT Texas no $

Postby tttlllsss » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:38 pm

bender18 wrote:I'm actually a little confused about my W&M scholarship as well. It says "The Graduate Fellowship total value will be $13,000 for the 2011-12 academic year." To my understanding, $10,000 of those dollars is the waiver to not pay for out-of-state tuition... correct? Fortunately, I also also received another scholarship, giving me a total of $25,000/year.

Anyone know how much I would be paying out of my pocket if you include the typical COL and other expenses per year at W&M?

And this may be slightly off topic, but I also received a full-tuition scholarship from W&L which gives about $40,800 per year. Which do you guys think is the more attractive offer? Is the more money that it will take to go to W&M worth it?


$9k of the fellowship is to bring things down to in-state tuition level. $4k is a stipend; this is taxable income, and I suppose it's formally the part which constitutes your income for working w/ the law administration.

The amount you'll be paying out-of-pocket really depends on your yearly COL - could be anywhere from $50k-$75k and on up. Your COL should, however, be lower than W&M's estimate, which is high in order to allow students to take out enough in loans.




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