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Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:36 pm
by supahstahxruv
mcweanis wrote:there are tons of cheap housing options in philly for 500-600ish, especially with roommates- check out the asw thread for more.

anyway, i already live here, but i loved the asw!



ah, **TOTALLY** forgot about the asw thread! thanks mcweanis!

now, on to happily read 7 pages... i hate weekends because weekends mean no action on the boards :P

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:59 am
by c_dubya_s
For those who sent in a scholly negotiation email, who did you address it to?

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:15 am
by absolutazn87
c_dubya_s wrote:For those who sent in a scholly negotiation email, who did you address it to?

scholarships@law.upenn.edu

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 am
by c_dubya_s
absolutazn87 wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:For those who sent in a scholly negotiation email, who did you address it to?

scholarships@law.upenn.edu

Sorry-I meant "Dear Mr./Ms. XXXXXX," Should have been clearer in my post...

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:26 am
by 4102011
I just said "Dear Scholarship Committee," IIRC.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:04 pm
by bdubs
For those who have received financial aid info. Does your status checker communication box show a financial aid mailing of some sort?

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:07 pm
by r6_philly
bdubs wrote:For those who have received financial aid info. Does your status checker communication box show a financial aid mailing of some sort?


No. Also the finaid email came from a staff member, not an auto/default email address.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:58 am
by bdubs
I e-mailed yesterday to ask about fin aid offers and I received a response that I should get it today.

I got it and received zero dollars, on top of that Penn thinks that my family should be contributing about 40-50% of their income toward my tuition which is just plain ridiculous.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:02 am
by r6_philly
bdubs wrote:I e-mailed yesterday to ask about fin aid offers and I received a response that I should get it today.

I got it and received zero dollars, on top of that Penn thinks that my family should be contributing about 40-50% of their income toward my tuition which is just plain ridiculous.


They have assets right? I got 30% of my income assessed. But you can take out loans to cover that.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:06 am
by bdubs
r6_philly wrote:
bdubs wrote:I e-mailed yesterday to ask about fin aid offers and I received a response that I should get it today.

I got it and received zero dollars, on top of that Penn thinks that my family should be contributing about 40-50% of their income toward my tuition which is just plain ridiculous.


They have assets right? I got 30% of my income assessed. But you can take out loans to cover that.


Yes, but when you are imminently approaching retirement assets become relevant. It's ridiculous that someone with a pension doesn't get assessed anything but someone with private retirement assets of an equivalent amount does.

Anyway, I have pretty much ruled out Penn now.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:11 am
by mcweanis
uhh yea i just saw the expected parent contribution too... 30k a year... YEA RIGHT, between my sisters college and me that would be half their income before taxes... plus they're not helping me with law school tuition AT ALL. LAME. i will only be at penn if i get the toll. i'd be thrilled to go but 70k in loans a year is ridiculous..

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:16 am
by r6_philly
bdubs wrote:
Yes, but when you are imminently approaching retirement assets become relevant. It's ridiculous that someone with a pension doesn't get assessed anything but someone with private retirement assets of an equivalent amount does.

Anyway, I have pretty much ruled out Penn now.


I have my income assessed even though I won't have that income in school, and we have no assets, and I am due to support my parents (no asset, no pension) in 6 months. It isn't meant to say you don't have needs, it is just that others are much more needier and funds are finite :(

ETA: I only got need aid at 2 schools. So I am quite appreciative of Penn.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:21 am
by c_dubya_s
r6_philly wrote:I have my income assessed even though I won't have that income in school, and we have no assets, and I am due to support my parents (no asset, no pension) in 6 months. It isn't meant to say you don't have needs, it is just that others are much more needier and funds are finite :(

ETA: I only got need aid at 2 schools. So I am quite appreciative of Penn.


Just out of curiosity, is a Law Grant need-based, merit-based, or a combination of both?

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:22 am
by bdubs
r6_philly wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Yes, but when you are imminently approaching retirement assets become relevant. It's ridiculous that someone with a pension doesn't get assessed anything but someone with private retirement assets of an equivalent amount does.

Anyway, I have pretty much ruled out Penn now.


I have my income assessed even though I won't have that income in school, and we have no assets, and I am due to support my parents (no asset, no pension) in 6 months. It isn't meant to say you don't have needs, it is just that others are much more needier and funds are finite :(

ETA: I only got need aid at 2 schools. So I am quite appreciative of Penn.


I understand that there are needy students out there. However law school is generally too expensive for even those with moderate incomes and financial assets. When ~50% of your school has to borrow their entire cost of attendance anyway I don't see how splitting hairs between poor and moderate incomes really matter when everyone is shooting for the same $160k jobs and will be equally screwed if they don't get them.

</venting>

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:27 am
by r6_philly
bdubs wrote:
I understand that there are needy students out there. However law school is generally too expensive for even those with moderate incomes and financial assets. When ~50% of your school has to borrow their entire cost of attendance anyway I don't see how splitting hairs between poor and moderate incomes really matter when everyone is shooting for the same $160k jobs and will be equally screwed if they don't get them.


Well realistically and practically, assets are "resources". It means you and your family can borrow against that resource, you can obtain the funds if you must, absolutely need to. Others on the other hand cannot even access such funds without the school, so the only resources is the school.

And when it comes to repayment, if you declare bankruptcy with certain assets they will be used to offset your debt obligations. Pensions are protected but private investment is not. So even if some people without assets go through bankruptcy they still can't rid of the loan debt. I think that's the difference. There is a way out (however painful) for some, there is NO way out for others.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:28 am
by r6_philly
c_dubya_s wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is a Law Grant need-based, merit-based, or a combination of both?


Law grant is need. But your maximum total award (grant + scholarship) may be determined by merit.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:29 am
by c_dubya_s
r6_philly wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is a Law Grant need-based, merit-based, or a combination of both?


Law grant is need. But your maximum total award (grant + scholarship) may be determined by merit.


So if I only got a law grant, could there be additional merit aid on its way? :D

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:33 am
by r6_philly
c_dubya_s wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is a Law Grant need-based, merit-based, or a combination of both?


Law grant is need. But your maximum total award (grant + scholarship) may be determined by merit.


So if I only got a law grant, could there be additional merit aid on its way? :D


They said at ASW it will be reevaluated in a few weeks, depends on how the class shapes out. If you have other offers you can submit it for consideration.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:34 am
by c_dubya_s
r6_philly wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is a Law Grant need-based, merit-based, or a combination of both?


Law grant is need. But your maximum total award (grant + scholarship) may be determined by merit.


So if I only got a law grant, could there be additional merit aid on its way? :D


They said at ASW it will be reevaluated in a few weeks, depends on how the class shapes out. If you have other offers you can submit it for consideration.


OK--I had to leave ASW a few hours early, so I missed the financial aid session. I submitted my competing offers yesterday, so we'll see what happens. Thanks r6!

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:35 am
by bdubs
r6_philly wrote:
bdubs wrote:
I understand that there are needy students out there. However law school is generally too expensive for even those with moderate incomes and financial assets. When ~50% of your school has to borrow their entire cost of attendance anyway I don't see how splitting hairs between poor and moderate incomes really matter when everyone is shooting for the same $160k jobs and will be equally screwed if they don't get them.


Well realistically and practically, assets are "resources". It means you and your family can borrow against that resource, you can obtain the funds if you must, absolutely need to. Others on the other hand cannot even access such funds without the school, so the only resources is the school.

And when it comes to repayment, if you declare bankruptcy with certain assets they will be used to offset your debt obligations. Pensions are protected but private investment is not. So even if some people without assets go through bankruptcy they still can't rid of the loan debt. I think that's the difference. There is a way out (however painful) for some, there is NO way out for others.


If I declare bankruptcy after law school my parents assets aren't accessible to me either.

I don't really understand need based aid as a safety net. That is what IBR and LRAP are for. If you truly have no job, no assets and no way to pay off your debts then it doesn't really matter if you go through bankruptcy or not, your creditors aren't getting paid.

Stanford's system of need based aid makes much more sense. It is truly need based in that it actually accounts for (current) ability to pay (in some sense). The mixed merit/need thing is really a ruse.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:41 am
by r6_philly
bdubs wrote:
If I declare bankruptcy after law school my parents assets aren't accessible to me either.

I don't really understand need based aid as a safety net. That is what IBR and LRAP are for. If you truly have no job, no assets and no way to pay off your debts then it doesn't really matter if you go through bankruptcy or not, your creditors aren't getting paid.


That is logical, I agree. But I think law school makes it a premise that your parents should help you shoulder the burden as long as they are able to (regardless of their situation). Not saying it is correct or what, but it's a premise. You can always make an appeal to show that it isn't reasonable to require them to contribute.

Like I said, the other schools gave me 0 need. It is what it is.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:49 am
by adam1
Can I humbly ask for advice?
I hope the answer is yes, as I am about to do so.

I received a very generous aid offer from Penn (sorry in advance. I hope we all get what we need, and I know that this process is anything but fair.) I'm wondering if there is a maximum aid package (that is, merit+need) because I'm thinking of asking for more in merit based on competing offers. My concern is that at best they'll add more merit scholarship and take way from need-based grant; in other words, they'll just reject my request.

Does this make any sense? Anybody have any insight?

For disclosure, I am trying to cover the relatively small amount that I'd be taking on in PLUS loans, and, FWIW, I wouldn't be seeking to do so if my background and current financial situation didn't justify it.

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:52 am
by r6_philly
adam1 wrote:Can I humbly ask for advice?
I hope the answer is yes, as I am about to do so.

I received a very generous aid offer from Penn (sorry in advance. I hope we all get what we need, and I know that this process is anything but fair.) I'm wondering if there is a maximum aid package (that is, merit+need) because I'm thinking of asking for more in merit based on competing offers. My concern is that at best they'll add more merit scholarship and take way from need-based grant; in other words, they'll just reject my request.

Does this make any sense? Anybody have any insight?

For disclosure, I am trying to cover the relatively small amount that I'd be taking on in PLUS loans, and, FWIW, I wouldn't be seeking to do so if my background and current financial situation didn't justify it.


So you mean, you love your offer, but you want more, but you are fine with what you have?

Ask, and maybe you get more, maybe you don't, but you'd be happy right? Congrats! :)

ETA: I don't think they are going to cover your whole bill, but if you get it, all the more power to you!

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:53 am
by supahstahxruv
bdubs wrote:I e-mailed yesterday to ask about fin aid offers and I received a response that I should get it today.

I got it and received zero dollars, on top of that Penn thinks that my family should be contributing about 40-50% of their income toward my tuition which is just plain ridiculous.


ugh, sorry to hear that. at ASW i was told that it would come monday, but as of now there is still nothing in my inbox. i'm afraid to harass them any further but this is getting kind of frustrating :(

Re: IN AT UPENN

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:56 am
by dpk711
Just got in this morning in CA! I thought I was waking up to a dream!
I never knew that they accepted people on Tuesdays. Anyways does anyone know how good Penn is with need based grants?