Top 14's Level of Importance

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rayiner
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Re: Top 14's Level of Importance

Postby rayiner » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:31 am

Re: national placement. Look at the number of NYC firms that do OCI at GULC versus UCLA ir Berkley versus UCLA. There is a big jump from T17 to T14 in that regard.

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JG Hall
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Re: Top 14's Level of Importance

Postby JG Hall » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:45 am

Rawlsian wrote:t14 has kinda became an arbitrary distinction. As mentioned above, Vandy has placed better than CG for a couple years now for art III clerkships and NLJ 250 firms. The reasons? Small class size and a broad geographic disbursement. Vandy does well in the SE, but the majority of grads have been heading to Midwest, NY, and Cal for several years now.

I think GULC--relative to Vandy, Cornell, UCLA, and UT--is the strongest school. It has most selective admissions (compared to those other schools), arguably one of the best faculties in the country, and superb placement for about 40% of its class. The problem is the size. Vandy improved its placement dramatically a couple of years ago by cutting their class size from about 210 to 180. It brought their supply more in line with demand. The market just can't absorb 650 GULC grads each year. If GULC cut their class size in half, say bringing it closer to UVA size, for example, then GULC would quickly emerge as one of the nation's strongest schools.

Cornell benefits form being small, but its location hurts--for attracting students as well as for falculty. Cornell's placement also tends to be volatile; it is heavily dependent on the NY market.

Is this true? Does someone have Vandy's placement numbers for NY biglaw? Because tbh, I don't think I've met a Vandy alum yet. Well, except my interviewer, but she was a legal librarian.

Rawlsian
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Re: Top 14's Level of Importance

Postby Rawlsian » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:10 pm

JG Hall wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:t14 has kinda became an arbitrary distinction. As mentioned above, Vandy has placed better than CG for a couple years now for art III clerkships and NLJ 250 firms. The reasons? Small class size and a broad geographic disbursement. Vandy does well in the SE, but the majority of grads have been heading to Midwest, NY, and Cal for several years now.

I think GULC--relative to Vandy, Cornell, UCLA, and UT--is the strongest school. It has most selective admissions (compared to those other schools), arguably one of the best faculties in the country, and superb placement for about 40% of its class. The problem is the size. Vandy improved its placement dramatically a couple of years ago by cutting their class size from about 210 to 180. It brought their supply more in line with demand. The market just can't absorb 650 GULC grads each year. If GULC cut their class size in half, say bringing it closer to UVA size, for example, then GULC would quickly emerge as one of the nation's strongest schools.

Cornell benefits form being small, but its location hurts--for attracting students as well as for falculty. Cornell's placement also tends to be volatile; it is heavily dependent on the NY market.

Is this true? Does someone have Vandy's placement numbers for NY biglaw? Because tbh, I don't think I've met a Vandy alum yet. Well, except my interviewer, but she was a legal librarian.


Usually about 10-20% of Vandy's graduating class takes the NY bar. For the last couple of years, no state has attracted more than 20%.

Rayiner has a point about t14 and NY firms that do OCI. For example, 21 NY firms come to Vandy's OCI, compared to 56 for Cornell, 88 for GULC, and 130+ for UCB. But using oci opportunity as a placement proxy, it's easy to see NY placement is not the same as national placement; and the move from 17 to 14 does not mean less opportunity. For example, consider the number of firms from different parts of the country that do OCI at Cornell and Vandy respectively:
Cornell: D.C. 13, Ohio 0, Atlanta 0, CA 28, TX 7, IL 3, Boston 10
Vandy: D.C. 19, Ohio 14, Atlanta 15, CA 27, TX 27, IL 8, Boston 6

There certainly doesn't seem to be an opportunity advantage for Cornell over Vandy, unless (once again) we're talking about NY, while Vandy has an advantage over Cornell for midwest, SE, and SW. However, consider GULC:
GULC: D.C. 81, Oh 15, Atlanta 11, CA 88, TX 31, IL 14, Boston 27

GULC oci opportunities support what I said earlier: for about 40% of the class, generally GULC will provide better opportunities than Vandy, Cornell, UCLA, and UT. After that, UCLA, UT, and Cornell are strongest in their respective regions, while Vandy is solid for a national disbursement.




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