In at Denver... Forum

[krad]

Never mind, sorry for interrupting TT!

[chrisbru]

Submitting today... Originally wasn't going to apply, but I asked for a fee waiver today and they granted it, so I figured I might as well! I'd definitely go to Denver over CU if I got a better scholarship.

[chrisbru]

Whoa, I sent my application in at around 1:30 PM yesterday, and was complete at 7:30 AM today. How fast is the turnaround for decisions? Any chance I'll hear this week? 171/2.94

[Barbie]

*tag* application sent today! woo

[chrisbru]

*tag* application sent today! woo

Congrats!

I talked to a lawyer who works in Denver today (at WTO LLC). He graduated from Iowa in (I think) 2005. He basically said Denver is a decent school, but to only go there if you plan on kicking ass and want to work in Denver for sure. Otherwise, definitely go to Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois (for you, Barbie, since I'm not going to bother trying out the waitlist ), Colorado, WUSTL, etc.... Basically any midwest tier 1 if you want to work in the midwest. Said top 50% at Tier 1 midwest schools usually don't have a problem finding a decent job after graduation, even currently, and he fully suspects hiring to be ramping up in 2-3 years.

Basically, he gave me positive hope in the economy, negative hope for wanting to attend a Tier 2 or 3 school with a really good scholarship haha.

[Barbie]

*tag* application sent today! woo

Congrats!

I talked to a lawyer who works in Denver today (at WTO LLC). He graduated from Iowa in (I think) 2005. He basically said Denver is a decent school, but to only go there if you plan on kicking ass and want to work in Denver for sure. Otherwise, definitely go to Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois (for you, Barbie, since I'm not going to bother trying out the waitlist ), Colorado, WUSTL, etc.... Basically any midwest tier 1 if you want to work in the midwest. Said top 50% at Tier 1 midwest schools usually don't have a problem finding a decent job after graduation, even currently, and he fully suspects hiring to be ramping up in 2-3 years.

Basically, he gave me positive hope in the economy, negative hope for wanting to attend a Tier 2 or 3 school with a really good scholarship haha.

Illinois --> Denver? For realz?

[chrisbru]

Illinois --> Denver? For realz?

Well, Illinois is ranked 21, Denver is ranked 80. So, if you want to work in Denver, then you have pretty similar chances coming out of both with the same class rank of getting a job in Denver. However, if you're NOT 100% locked on Denver, he recommends going to a good ranked school so you have more options.

Edit: Presumably, Denver would be EASIER to be in the top 20% than at Illinois.

[EricBerry]

In via email yesterday

[mrwarre85]

*tag* application sent today! woo

Congrats!

I talked to a lawyer who works in Denver today (at WTO LLC). He graduated from Iowa in (I think) 2005. He basically said Denver is a decent school, but to only go there if you plan on kicking ass and want to work in Denver for sure. Otherwise, definitely go to Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois (for you, Barbie, since I'm not going to bother trying out the waitlist ), Colorado, WUSTL, etc.... Basically any midwest tier 1 if you want to work in the midwest. Said top 50% at Tier 1 midwest schools usually don't have a problem finding a decent job after graduation, even currently, and he fully suspects hiring to be ramping up in 2-3 years.

Basically, he gave me positive hope in the economy, negative hope for wanting to attend a Tier 2 or 3 school with a really good scholarship haha.

you know this makes sense. I'm sure after working a few years that you could move around a bit with a DU JD though. probably a bit tougher row to hoe than with a IOWA JD, but I'm sure its possible.

[CanadianWolf]

The student body is much stronger at Illinois than at Denver.

[Barbie]

The student body is much stronger at Illinois than at Denver.

physically?

[fundamentallybroken]

The student body is much stronger at Illinois than at Denver.

Depends on where the action is. You flatlanders get pretty winded at 5000 feet above sea level...

[chrisbru]

Depends on where the action is. You flatlanders get pretty winded at 5000 feet above sea level...

OOOO another point for Denver... Due to the altitude, the total COD (cost of drinking) is lower

[fundamentallybroken]

Depends on where the action is. You flatlanders get pretty winded at 5000 feet above sea level...

OOOO another point for Denver... Due to the altitude, the total COD (cost of drinking) is lower

WAY lower. On the flip side, I've been in Denver since I was 9, and I'm probably looking at a move out East. My COD is going to go through the roof.

[mrwarre85]

Depends on where the action is. You flatlanders get pretty winded at 5000 feet above sea level...

OOOO another point for Denver... Due to the altitude, the total COD (cost of drinking) is lower

Lol

[jayman6]

I'm not sure if I'd base my decision on what one lawyer says. First of all, I doubt you'd get a much better job in Denver having gone to Illinois as opposed to going to Denver, but the debt would probably be much higher for someone who went to Illinois as opposed to someone who went to Denver on a scholarship. Obviously Illinois and Iowa are good schools, but why pay 100k more to get the same job in the long run. Look at the career statistics booklet linked on Iowa's web site. The overall median salary is only 65k. Is that really worth a 170k education? I doubt it. I think the prospects of getting a high paying job from Denver would be easier since the competition wouldn't be as high so I'd probably have a higher class rank than if I went to Illinois.

T25 schools are great, but not when you have to go into debt at full price. I just don't see the point when Iowa and Illinois have mediocre median salaries.

Thoughts?

[chrisbru]

I'm not sure if I'd base my decision on what one lawyer says. First of all, I doubt you'd get a much better job in Denver having gone to Illinois as opposed to going to Denver, but the debt would probably be much higher for someone who went to Illinois as opposed to someone who went to Denver on a scholarship. Obviously Illinois and Iowa are good schools, but why pay 100k more to get the same job in the long run. Look at the career statistics booklet linked on Iowa's web site. The overall median salary is only 65k. Is that really worth a 170k education? I doubt it. I think the prospects of getting a high paying job from Denver would be easier since the competition wouldn't be as high so I'd probably have a higher class rank than if I went to Illinois.

T25 schools are great, but not when you have to go into debt at full price. I just don't see the point when Iowa and Illinois have mediocre median salaries.

Thoughts?

Interesting things to think about. The guy I talked to wasn't necessarily saying you'd get a BETTER job going to Denver over Illinois/Iowa... He was merely saying that it would be easier to find a job in Denver specifically coming from Denver than Iowa or Illinois. In the long run, or anywhere outside of Denver, a JD from Iowa/Illinois is worth much more.

I have a hard time placing value on the different ranks of schools. I, personally, would never go to a T25 school at sticker. My maximum debt I'll allow myself for a T25 school will be probably $100k, which translates to roughly $20k a year tuition and then living expenses. If I go to a Tier 2, I'll want to go for at least 3/4 ride. Otherwise, at this point, I'll take my Tier 3 full ride in a city I want to live in, smoke all of the less-competitive students, and see if I can score a top 10% with moot court and law review. That being said, I have NO idea if my analysis is sound, or even responsible. It may turn out that $50k in cost of living loans for a third tier (or $75k for COL and 1/4 tuition at a 2nd Tier) may be just shooting myself in the foot.

I wish there was a lawschoolpredictor.com for starting salary.... haha

[Aqualibrium]

I'm not sure if I'd base my decision on what one lawyer says. First of all, I doubt you'd get a much better job in Denver having gone to Illinois as opposed to going to Denver, but the debt would probably be much higher for someone who went to Illinois as opposed to someone who went to Denver on a scholarship. Obviously Illinois and Iowa are good schools, but why pay 100k more to get the same job in the long run. Look at the career statistics booklet linked on Iowa's web site. The overall median salary is only 65k. Is that really worth a 170k education? I doubt it. I think the prospects of getting a high paying job from Denver would be easier since the competition wouldn't be as high so I'd probably have a higher class rank than if I went to Illinois.

T25 schools are great, but not when you have to go into debt at full price. I just don't see the point when Iowa and Illinois have mediocre median salaries.

Thoughts?

The difference is Illinois, and to a far far lesser extent Iowa, allows you the ability to not be hamstrung into one market. At Illinois, if you get the grades, Chicago, Central Illinois, other parts of the mid-west are open to you. Plus if you have the ties or the desire, you can work on getting a job in Denver or elsewhere in Colorado. At DU, even with rockstar grades, you have Denver.

[chrisbru]

The difference is Illinois, and to a far far lesser extent Iowa, allows you the ability to not be hamstrung into one market. At Illinois, if you get the grades, Chicago, Central Illinois, other parts of the mid-west are open to you. Plus if you have the ties or the desire, you can work on getting a job in Denver or elsewhere in Colorado. At DU, even with rockstar grades, you have Denver.

Hm... Fair. What about CU though? How does that translate compare to Iowa? My school choice pretty much comes down to

1. Minnesota
2. Colorado
3. WUSTL
4. Iowa

And then the debt-averse schools:
1. St. Thomas (full-ride)
2. Denver (would only consider with at least 3/4)


I guess my hardest decision is trying to figure out what gives me the most options. I want to be in either Denver or Minneapolis, with Denver being a stronger preference. I have ZERO desire to be in Chicago, and wouldn't even look for jobs there. I'd be content with ending up in Des Moines, Kansas City, or Omaha, but I'd like to not have to settle for those.

[fundamentallybroken]

I'm not sure if I'd base my decision on what one lawyer says. First of all, I doubt you'd get a much better job in Denver having gone to Illinois as opposed to going to Denver, but the debt would probably be much higher for someone who went to Illinois as opposed to someone who went to Denver on a scholarship. Obviously Illinois and Iowa are good schools, but why pay 100k more to get the same job in the long run. Look at the career statistics booklet linked on Iowa's web site. The overall median salary is only 65k. Is that really worth a 170k education? I doubt it. I think the prospects of getting a high paying job from Denver would be easier since the competition wouldn't be as high so I'd probably have a higher class rank than if I went to Illinois.

T25 schools are great, but not when you have to go into debt at full price. I just don't see the point when Iowa and Illinois have mediocre median salaries.

Thoughts?

The difference is Illinois, and to a far far lesser extent Iowa, allows you the ability to not be hamstrung into one market. At Illinois, if you get the grades, Chicago, Central Illinois, other parts of the mid-west are open to you. Plus if you have the ties or the desire, you can work on getting a job in Denver or elsewhere in Colorado. At DU, even with rockstar grades, you have Denver.

I think the problem is that all of these scenarios are too shortsighted. Where you go to school may affect where you work in the short term, but in the long term it's what you do with your career - not where you went to school. I'm in Denver, and I know UVA grads working here. At the same time, I know DU grads who are making it just fine in NY and DC. Law school just gets you to the lake - once you're done it's up to you to swim across.

[Aqualibrium]

The difference is Illinois, and to a far far lesser extent Iowa, allows you the ability to not be hamstrung into one market. At Illinois, if you get the grades, Chicago, Central Illinois, other parts of the mid-west are open to you. Plus if you have the ties or the desire, you can work on getting a job in Denver or elsewhere in Colorado. At DU, even with rockstar grades, you have Denver.

Hm... Fair. What about CU though? How does that translate compare to Iowa? My school choice pretty much comes down to

1. Minnesota
2. Colorado
3. WUSTL
4. Iowa

And then the debt-averse schools:
1. St. Thomas (full-ride)
2. Denver (would only consider with at least 3/4)


I guess my hardest decision is trying to figure out what gives me the most options. I want to be in either Denver or Minneapolis, with Denver being a stronger preference. I have ZERO desire to be in Chicago, and wouldn't even look for jobs there. I'd be content with ending up in Des Moines, Kansas City, or Omaha, but I'd like to not have to settle for those.

If you truly want to be in Denver or MPLS, I'd say you're right to put Minnesota at the top of your list. If you can get into Minnesota and get even a little money to defray costs, I would go and start pounding the pavement and establishing a network in Denver asap.

I discuss CU vs. Denver in another thread. I think, from what I've seen about employment prospects in Colorado, it probably isn't worth it to pay significantly more to go to CU if Denver is giving you a big scholarship.

WashU throws cash around...that one is up to you, but their students have had it rough in this job market, and competition will be intense. I wouldn't suggest Iowa unless you were sure you wanted something in the state or had a very solid tie to another place you were interested in.

Just my opinion though...

[Barbie]

I only know one DU grad and she is without employment (not for lack of trying).

That being said, it all depends on what DU offers me. If DU offers me almost a full ride, I would srsly consider it. However, Illinois is giving me 45k-- which is a little more than a year's tuition if I am stuck paying OOS all 3 years. If I get in state after the first year (this is my plan) then I'll have... @ 61k in debt from tuition alone. Probably 100k in debt overall, or if my boyfriend supports me like he claims he will-- @ 61k overall in debt. Which I don't think is so bad. Denver for free is a fabulous option though. Any strong education for free is TCR IMO, because worse comes to worse you do whatever job you were doing before.. but thats okay because you have no debt to worry about.

[chrisbru]

I only know one DU grad and she is without employment (not for lack of trying).

That being said, it all depends on what DU offers me. If DU offers me almost a full ride, I would srsly consider it. However, Illinois is giving me 45k-- which is a little more than a year's tuition if I am stuck paying OOS all 3 years. If I get in state after the first year (this is my plan) then I'll have... @ 61k in debt from tuition alone. Probably 100k in debt overall, or if my boyfriend supports me like he claims he will-- @ 61k overall in debt. Which I don't think is so bad. Denver for free is a fabulous option though. Any strong education for free is TCR IMO, because worse comes to worse you do whatever job you were doing before.. but thats okay because you have no debt to worry about.

I agree with you except for this point. The vast majority of people who get full-rides still have to take out money for cost of living. That will come to be anywhere from $40k-$60k depending on your lifestyle and the city you live in.

Secondly, I would never WANT to come back to my current job

[Aqualibrium]

I'm not sure if I'd base my decision on what one lawyer says. First of all, I doubt you'd get a much better job in Denver having gone to Illinois as opposed to going to Denver, but the debt would probably be much higher for someone who went to Illinois as opposed to someone who went to Denver on a scholarship. Obviously Illinois and Iowa are good schools, but why pay 100k more to get the same job in the long run. Look at the career statistics booklet linked on Iowa's web site. The overall median salary is only 65k. Is that really worth a 170k education? I doubt it. I think the prospects of getting a high paying job from Denver would be easier since the competition wouldn't be as high so I'd probably have a higher class rank than if I went to Illinois.

T25 schools are great, but not when you have to go into debt at full price. I just don't see the point when Iowa and Illinois have mediocre median salaries.

Thoughts?

The difference is Illinois, and to a far far lesser extent Iowa, allows you the ability to not be hamstrung into one market. At Illinois, if you get the grades, Chicago, Central Illinois, other parts of the mid-west are open to you. Plus if you have the ties or the desire, you can work on getting a job in Denver or elsewhere in Colorado. At DU, even with rockstar grades, you have Denver.

I think the problem is that all of these scenarios are too shortsighted. Where you go to school may affect where you work in the short term, but in the long term it's what you do with your career - not where you went to school. I'm in Denver, and I know UVA grads working here. At the same time, I know DU grads who are making it just fine in NY and DC. Law school just gets you to the lake - once you're done it's up to you to swim across.

The UVA grads are the reason it's so rough for CU and DU in Colorado...

I don't really understand what you're saying here though. Should you go to DU over Georgetown because in the long run you want to be in New York? Should the UVA Grads not have gone there?

Of course you never know where life will take you, and true hustlers can make something out of nothing. Were saying short term here, but be real, 3 years of school + a likely 3-5 years of work at first job = 6-8 years...not exactly short term. If you're trying to plan for your life and you're skipping a 5-10 year period and jumping ahead, you're screwing yourself. That argument works when people say things like XYZ school is a festering TTT, but that isn't the case here. It's a fact that you have to make determinations like this if you want options in the short term. Sure a DU grad may be able to make it to NYC eventually, but they have to go in thinking about where they'll be able to make it in the more immediate future.

[Barbie]

I only know one DU grad and she is without employment (not for lack of trying).

That being said, it all depends on what DU offers me. If DU offers me almost a full ride, I would srsly consider it. However, Illinois is giving me 45k-- which is a little more than a year's tuition if I am stuck paying OOS all 3 years. If I get in state after the first year (this is my plan) then I'll have... @ 61k in debt from tuition alone. Probably 100k in debt overall, or if my boyfriend supports me like he claims he will-- @ 61k overall in debt. Which I don't think is so bad. Denver for free is a fabulous option though. Any strong education for free is TCR IMO, because worse comes to worse you do whatever job you were doing before.. but thats okay because you have no debt to worry about.

I agree with you except for this point. The vast majority of people who get full-rides still have to take out money for cost of living. That will come to be anywhere from $40k-$60k depending on your lifestyle and the city you live in.

Secondly, I would never WANT to come back to my current job

GET A SUGARDADDY/MOMMA <3
Thats what I'm doin