OU 2011 applicants

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amg131s
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby amg131s » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


you sure said it... asshole.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:49 pm

amg131s wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


you sure said it... asshole.


I guess that post could have had more tact. I love OU, and God knows it's doing better than a lot of T2's, but it is ROUGH out there right now folks. Better you realize that now than in 3 years.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:51 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:54 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Confused as to how this in any way relates to my post...do you know anybody who pays sticker at WUSTL? Because I don't.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:54 pm

you sure said it... asshole.[/quote]

I guess that post could have had more tact. I love OU, and God knows it's doing better than a lot of T2's, but it is ROUGH out there right now folks. Better you realize that now than in 3 years.[/quote]

It is rough out there. and for those that take on 150k debt at a T2 because they want to make a lot of money, lets hope they have the drive and detrmination to out perform, out network, and out hustle their classmates because they are going to need it.

your post is arrogant and is riddled with assumptions.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:58 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Confused as to how this in any way relates to my post...do you know anybody who pays sticker at WUSTL? Because I don't.



Doesn't change much. I'm sure lots of people leave WUSTL with 125k or more in debt, and I hope they work hard becuase that school doesn't make any promises either.

It really has a lot to do with the caliber of student going in and not the school; in the long run I'd take interpersonal skills at OU vs. no interpersonal skills at Harvard.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:10 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Confused as to how this in any way relates to my post...do you know anybody who pays sticker at WUSTL? Because I don't.



Doesn't change much. I'm sure lots of people leave WUSTL with 125k or more in debt, and I hope they work hard becuase that school doesn't make any promises either.

It really has a lot to do with the caliber of student going in and not the school; in the long run I'd take interpersonal skills at OU vs. no interpersonal skills at Harvard.


I'm sorry if my posts came off as a dig on OU in any way. My wife graduated from there, I was born and raised in Oklahoma, and it has a place near and dear to my heart. It always will. There are many, many worse places to get a jd from than OU. It's a very respectable school, and I hope everyone that reads this thread realizes that. EVERYONE applying to law school, though, needs to realize the difficulties the entire profession as a whole is going through right now and really consider if taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt and spending 3 very difficult years in school is truly their best option. Good luck to all the 0L's, and boomer sooner.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:16 pm

I'm sorry if my posts came off as a dig on OU in any way. My wife graduated from there, I was born and raised in Oklahoma, and it has a place near and dear to my heart. It always will. There are many, many worse places to get a jd from than OU. It's a very respectable school, and I hope everyone that reads this thread realizes that. EVERYONE applying to law school, though, needs to realize the difficulties the entire profession as a whole is going through right now and really consider if taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt and spending 3 very difficult years in school is truly their best option. Good luck to all the 0L's, and boomer sooner.[/quote]


Cool. Sorry I assumed you didn't want to help people..

amg131s
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby amg131s » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:56 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
amg131s wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


you sure said it... asshole.


I guess that post could have had more tact. I love OU, and God knows it's doing better than a lot of T2's, but it is ROUGH out there right now folks. Better you realize that now than in 3 years.


you don't know everyone's situation buddy. i come from a family of attorneys, my father being a managing partner of a large firm in missouri, and as i see you are attending law school at waustl. finding a job post law school is not an issue for me. ou is just a good law school, offering me an excellent education at a low price. don't go running through forums making comments like that. no offense partner, but i won't be attending a school of wustl's caliber and i have to think i'm better off than you given my own personal situation.

enjoy the rat race NU_Jet55. i'm "literally lol'ing" at you right now.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:36 pm

amg131s wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
amg131s wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


you sure said it... asshole.


I guess that post could have had more tact. I love OU, and God knows it's doing better than a lot of T2's, but it is ROUGH out there right now folks. Better you realize that now than in 3 years.


you don't know everyone's situation buddy. i come from a family of attorneys, my father being a managing partner of a large firm in missouri, and as i see you are attending law school at waustl. finding a job post law school is not an issue for me. ou is just a good law school, offering me an excellent education at a low price. don't go running through forums making comments like that. no offense partner, but i won't be attending a school of wustl's caliber and i have to think i'm better off than you given my own personal situation.

enjoy the rat race NU_Jet55. i'm "literally lol'ing" at you right now.


No offense taken. I'm happy that you have a job waiting for you. I wish we could all be so lucky.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:41 pm

OKC is so much fun. My girfriend works so I think we could afford bricktown.. what % of kids you think commute from OKC to OU law?

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patrickd139
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:53 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:OKC is so much fun. My girfriend works so I think we could afford bricktown.. what % of kids you think commute from OKC to OU law?

Three things (1 on NU_Jet55's comments and then 2 and 3 on mrwarre85's quote above):

1) Listen to what NU_Jet55 has to say. It's pretty spot on, especially for people coming from out of state thinking that OU's ranking is going to land them a great job anywhere. It's a tough legal market out there, and Oklahoma is no different in any respect. You're not going to have a chance at firm jobs "everywhere" with an OU Law degree.

Yeah, their football team is popular (right now), yeah, it's a decent law school that will give you a good education at value cost. That said, there are exactly two people in my class who landed market-rate SA positions in Dallas; one of them is IP. The vast majority of my class is unemployed for next summer, and those of us who are lucky enough to have SA positions are all in Oklahoma, where market rate does not begin to compensate for taking out full loans to fund OOS tuition and cost of living for three years. I have it on good authority that the same goes for DU, but I obviously have no personal experience with their law school. (I do like Denver a lot, though.)

2) Plenty of people (probably 5-10%, purely a guess) commute. There are a couple of students who hail from places as far as Stillwater. No one I know of actually lives in Bricktown, but that's not to say that a) no one actually does, or b) you couldn't live there. Which brings me to the unsolicited advice...

3) Don't live in Bricktown and commute to OU Law. There are a number of reasons why I recommend against this, below are just a few.

Traffic is terrible, and they're starting M.A.P.S. 3512960, which is a city-wide rennovation that includes major rerouting of entire interstates just south of downtown. I know some law students commute for various legitimate reasons, but it has to pile on the stress. Law school is plenty stressful.

Second, it's expensive. Not only is apartment rent higher, but gas is not cheap, and there are no grocery stores nearby, which means (if you're like me) you tend to eat out a lot more. You mentioned your girlfriend is working so you could afford it. I'll spare you the "relationship won't last past 1L" spiel, and go with financial advice instead. Spend the extra money it would cost to live in OKC and commute on other things. Take out fewer loans, or invest it, or whatever. You'll thank yourself later. There's an adage: Live like a student now or live like a student for the rest of your life.

Third, if you're doing law school "right" (or unless you're just naturally brilliant, and I mean brilliant) you will have no time to enjoy Bricktown. I think the area, while cool (especially by Oklahoma standards) is overrated. I just don't think it's worth it. Your results may vary though. To me, Bricktown is good for drinking and restaurants. There are places to drink in Norman, when you have time.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:23 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:OKC is so much fun. My girfriend works so I think we could afford bricktown.. what % of kids you think commute from OKC to OU law?

Three things (1 on NU_Jet55's comments and then 2 and 3 on mrwarre85's quote above):

1) Listen to what NU_Jet55 has to say. It's pretty spot on, especially for people coming from out of state thinking that OU's ranking is going to land them a great job anywhere. It's a tough legal market out there, and Oklahoma is no different in any respect. You're not going to have a chance at firm jobs "everywhere" with an OU Law degree.

Yeah, their football team is popular (right now), yeah, it's a decent law school that will give you a good education at value cost. That said, there are exactly two people in my class who landed market-rate SA positions in Dallas; one of them is IP. The vast majority of my class is unemployed for next summer, and those of us who are lucky enough to have SA positions are all in Oklahoma, where market rate does not begin to compensate for taking out full loans to fund OOS tuition and cost of living for three years. I have it on good authority that the same goes for DU, but I obviously have no personal experience with their law school. (I do like Denver a lot, though.)

2) Plenty of people (probably 5-10%, purely a guess) commute. There are a couple of students who hail from places as far as Stillwater. No one I know of actually lives in Bricktown, but that's not to say that a) no one actually does, or b) you couldn't live there. Which brings me to the unsolicited advice...

3) Don't live in Bricktown and commute to OU Law. There are a number of reasons why I recommend against this, below are just a few.

Traffic is terrible, and they're starting M.A.P.S. 3512960, which is a city-wide rennovation that includes major rerouting of entire interstates just south of downtown. I know some law students commute for various legitimate reasons, but it has to pile on the stress. Law school is plenty stressful.

Second, it's expensive. Not only is apartment rent higher, but gas is not cheap, and there are no grocery stores nearby, which means (if you're like me) you tend to eat out a lot more. You mentioned your girlfriend is working so you could afford it. I'll spare you the "relationship won't last past 1L" spiel, and go with financial advice instead. Spend the extra money it would cost to live in OKC and commute on other things. Take out fewer loans, or invest it, or whatever. You'll thank yourself later. There's an adage: Live like a student now or live like a student for the rest of your life.

Third, if you're doing law school "right" (or unless you're just naturally brilliant, and I mean brilliant) you will have no time to enjoy Bricktown. I think the area, while cool (especially by Oklahoma standards) is overrated. I just don't think it's worth it. Your results may vary though. To me, Bricktown is good for drinking and restaurants. There are places to drink in Norman, when you have time.


I didn't take offense to his advice. I took offense because he misunderstood me, made an assumption from that, and then was very arrogant and rude towards both myself and OU. Note: I don't think I'm going to get a job because OU has a football team. However, you'd be naive to think that in twenty years there won't be benefit from going to OU over DU when you are trying to work in a small legal practice in a small town in Texas. Things that shouldn't matter, do matter, and lay prestige has an effect. Perhaps the firms he wants to work for would look beyond that, and I assume that they would, but he seemed to be assuming that everyone wants a certain type of legal career and I think that's nonsense.

As far as the whole Bricktown thing goes, you of course may be right. I lived with and socialized with a bunch of 1L's from UT-Austin this past year, and they had plenty of time to "enjoy" their surroundings. However, perhaps the job prospects are much better here and the curves more lenient. Come to think of it, I have a couple friends at OU law and they never spoke much about anything other than classes and papers.

I guess the Bricktown thing was for here because her corporation can transfer her to their OKC offices. However, neither of us want to live in Norman. We've done the undergrad thing-- her in Durham, myself in Tempe-- and we are looking for something different. We are also a few years older, and likely wouldn't need the "relationship won't last past 1L spiel," but I do still appreciate that you left it out.

This traffic thing though (M.A.P.S) sounds terrible. I hope you got all those numbers right, by the way... The traffic thing would be a deal breaker for me and I know how ridiculous that is. We all have irrational wants and dislikes, though, and I suppose that one is as good as any. Anyway, really like your adage, and thanks again for all your advice. When do you all find out your grades by the way?

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OklahomasOK
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:05 am

0L here, having spent 4 years in Norman for undergrad if anyone has any questions about OU/ Campus or Norman and their wonderful tap water.

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OklahomasOK
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:07 am

mrwarre85 wrote:
I guess the Bricktown thing was for here because her corporation can transfer her to their OKC offices. However, neither of us want to live in Norman....


I would recommend living in West Norman (west of 35), or Moore (cheaper). West Norman is a much older crowd (but not OLD by any stretch, just less undergrads. Moore is close enough for a short commute and far enough to be out of the undergrad environment.

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patrickd139
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:54 am

mrwarre85 wrote:When do you all find out your grades by the way?

1L grades are released the Friday after classes resume in January. Thankfully, I don't have to wait for that again, as upper class grades are released when professors turn them in.

As for the rest of your post, do with your resources and time as you like. It sounds like you're at least looking into the pros and cons instead of making "ooh shiny Bricktown" decisions. Also, a vast majority of those who live in OKC and commute do so on account of spouse/SO jobs, or family (and thus free housing) in the area. Either way, I wouldn't want to do it :wink:

OklahomasOK might be onto something about West Norman and Moore. Not to my liking (I'm slightly younger than that crowd myself), but I could easily see the appeal. Also, :lol: at tap water.

starrynight62
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby starrynight62 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:55 pm

Just wanted to second the solid advice mentioned above re: commuting and living in Norman. Purely anecdotal, but I know several people who commute from OKC for various reasons, and they pretty much all hate it. I might have considered it before starting school, but knowing what I do now I wouldn't do it if you paid me. I know it's a lifestyle choice, so do what you will.

P.S. Patrick: why the long wait for 1L grades?

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OklahomasOK
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:27 pm

I got non-resident tuition waiver plus some cash the first year. Law school at OU will cost less than my undergrad did per year. Just got the call a few minutes ago. It would cost me about $55-60k to attend Law School here.

Merry Christmas!
Last edited by OklahomasOK on Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patrickd139
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:01 pm

OklahomasOK wrote:I got non-resident tuition waiver plus $2,000 the first year. Law school at OU will cost less than my undergrad did per year. Just got the call a few minutes ago. ~$32,000 package/ 3 years. It would cost me about $55-60k to attend Law School here.

Merry Christmas!

Congrats! Not a bad price for a legal education.

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skirschner1
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby skirschner1 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Got a scholarship offer in the mail today. 6,000 out of state for the first year which isnt bad I guess. Still not sure if it is enough to make me really consider going though.

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observationalist
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby observationalist » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:37 am

mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Just wanted to clarify this... the Class of 2008 data available in our Data Clearinghouse (--LinkRemoved--) does not say what you think it does. It only tells you that 204 graduates were employed in the "private sector," which is not the same as "private practice." There is no distinction between jobs that required a JD and jobs that didn't, which is one of the major distinctions we've been arguing schools need to make. The private sector includes all for-profit entities, so graduates are actually considered employed in the private sector if they are bartending, waiting tables, or if they returned to whatever other non-law job they held prior to law school. Further, only 57% of the 204 graduates in the private sector reported salaries, and of those the 25th salary was $51K. This is incredibly misleading because use of the term 'median' makes you think it applies to the entire class, when in fact it only counts a portion (usually top performers). This means that the actual median salary for those who found private sector jobs is likely significantly lower than $51K. Just 28.2% of DU's Class of 2008 reported making 51K or more, which is not very encouraging for an aspiring attorney who will need loans to finance their legal education.

Please be careful when trying to draw conclusions from the Clearinghouse. If you have other materials from the school regarding job placement and you want advice on what they might actually mean, feel free to post them here.

Also, I realize this is an OU thread and not DU... 30.56% of OU's Class of 2008 reported making salaries of 52K or more. Class of 2008 was a great year for job placement in the legal sector, so you should assume that current earning ability is lower now than it was then. See here: --LinkRemoved--

All of this points to the need to ask the schools and ask for complete lists of where the Class of 2010 graduates are working. Schools have often been unwilling to disclose this information, but as a consumer you should realize how important that data is if you're going to make a fair determination of the level of risk involved. G'luck to all.

mrwarre85
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby mrwarre85 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:41 pm

observationalist wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Just wanted to clarify this... the Class of 2008 data available in our Data Clearinghouse (--LinkRemoved--) does not say what you think it does. It only tells you that 204 graduates were employed in the "private sector," which is not the same as "private practice." There is no distinction between jobs that required a JD and jobs that didn't, which is one of the major distinctions we've been arguing schools need to make. The private sector includes all for-profit entities, so graduates are actually considered employed in the private sector if they are bartending, waiting tables, or if they returned to whatever other non-law job they held prior to law school. Further, only 57% of the 204 graduates in the private sector reported salaries, and of those the 25th salary was $51K. This is incredibly misleading because use of the term 'median' makes you think it applies to the entire class, when in fact it only counts a portion (usually top performers). This means that the actual median salary for those who found private sector jobs is likely significantly lower than $51K. Just 28.2% of DU's Class of 2008 reported making 51K or more, which is not very encouraging for an aspiring attorney who will need loans to finance their legal education.

Please be careful when trying to draw conclusions from the Clearinghouse. If you have other materials from the school regarding job placement and you want advice on what they might actually mean, feel free to post them here.

Also, I realize this is an OU thread and not DU... 30.56% of OU's Class of 2008 reported making salaries of 52K or more. Class of 2008 was a great year for job placement in the legal sector, so you should assume that current earning ability is lower now than it was then. See here: --LinkRemoved--

All of this points to the need to ask the schools and ask for complete lists of where the Class of 2010 graduates are working. Schools have often been unwilling to disclose this information, but as a consumer you should realize how important that data is if you're going to make a fair determination of the level of risk involved. G'luck to all.



I agree with the theme of your post, but the data seems a bit off. According to your link, 79.1% of DU grads had a job that is JD required in 2008 (on the next page). 78% of OU grads had a job that is JD required in 2008.

At DU in those better economic times, 118 grads, or 37% of the class, went 51,000/70,000/105,000
At OU in those better economic times, 102 grads, or 61% of the class, went 45,000/52,250/80,000

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observationalist
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby observationalist » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:13 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
observationalist wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Not going to law school at all > going to Denver on full scholly

There are just too many people that will graduate from Denver and never practice law and end up doing something they could have done with their undergrad degree. Unless you're one of the lucky few, it's a waste of 3 years.

Also, lay prestige matters very little in th legal world. Believe it or not, OU's football team is not going to help you get a legal job.

And lol @ an ou law degree giving you a chance at a firm job "everywhere." Literally lol'd at that one.


haha. going to DU full scholly way better than sticker at WUSTL. look at law school transparency-- the majority of both DU and OU grads get jobs that require their JD. top half at both schools get you a "firm" job, just not one with a bunch of other lawyers. these gigs pay less but we have a lot less school debt, plus, and hold your breath, some of us want to practice law in order to...HELP PEOPLE!

Gasp.


Just wanted to clarify this... the Class of 2008 data available in our Data Clearinghouse (--LinkRemoved--) does not say what you think it does. It only tells you that 204 graduates were employed in the "private sector," which is not the same as "private practice." There is no distinction between jobs that required a JD and jobs that didn't, which is one of the major distinctions we've been arguing schools need to make. The private sector includes all for-profit entities, so graduates are actually considered employed in the private sector if they are bartending, waiting tables, or if they returned to whatever other non-law job they held prior to law school. Further, only 57% of the 204 graduates in the private sector reported salaries, and of those the 25th salary was $51K. This is incredibly misleading because use of the term 'median' makes you think it applies to the entire class, when in fact it only counts a portion (usually top performers). This means that the actual median salary for those who found private sector jobs is likely significantly lower than $51K. Just 28.2% of DU's Class of 2008 reported making 51K or more, which is not very encouraging for an aspiring attorney who will need loans to finance their legal education.

Please be careful when trying to draw conclusions from the Clearinghouse. If you have other materials from the school regarding job placement and you want advice on what they might actually mean, feel free to post them here.

Also, I realize this is an OU thread and not DU... 30.56% of OU's Class of 2008 reported making salaries of 52K or more. Class of 2008 was a great year for job placement in the legal sector, so you should assume that current earning ability is lower now than it was then. See here: --LinkRemoved--

All of this points to the need to ask the schools and ask for complete lists of where the Class of 2010 graduates are working. Schools have often been unwilling to disclose this information, but as a consumer you should realize how important that data is if you're going to make a fair determination of the level of risk involved. G'luck to all.



I agree with the theme of your post, but the data seems a bit off. According to your link, 79.1% of DU grads had a job that is JD required in 2008 (on the next page). 78% of OU grads had a job that is JD required in 2008.

At DU in those better economic times, 118 grads, or 37% of the class, went 51,000/70,000/105,000
At OU in those better economic times, 102 grads, or 61% of the class, went 45,000/52,250/80,000


I agree the data is off. I was talking about how there is no connection between salaries and whether or not a JD was required, but I see your point. The information contained in the pie charts on the summary tab does not actually come from 100% of the class though, and schools don't need to tell you what percentage of people in the private sector had jobs that required a JD. If you look at the chart for DU, the range of Business/Industry jobs for which a JD was required could range from as much as 100% down to just 2.8%. That's an enormous range of possible jobs... 100% means nobody was bartending while 2.8% means everyone was doing it.

Also recognize that of the 49% who went to work for law firms, it's not necessarily true that they are all working as lawyers. Firms employ people in a variety of positions, with inexperienced law graduates typically going in at the lowest rung. This can mean being a paralegal or legal secretary. Schools generally interpret any vague responses in the most favorable way to the schools, meaning that the 49% working at law firms are probably all counted as requiring a JD even though that's not necessarily the case. It's also important to know how many people were working as solo practitioners, which can be much more difficult than receiving training under an experienced attorney or attorneys. My main point would be to assume the worst of the data until you can get better information from the schools. OU in particular has a very small graduating class, so they should be able to provide you with a list of employers for everyone who graduated. That would help a lot in figuring out whether or not a lot of graduates were doing the type of work you envision, whether your goal is to help people or more broadly just make use of your law degree in some way.

[Edited for clarification.]

amg131s
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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby amg131s » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:10 pm

anyone heard any news on scholarships recently?
i was accepted just before the break and haven't heard anything yet... starting to get a little concerned i won't be getting anything.

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Re: OU 2011 applicants

Postby A12345 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:16 am

amg131s wrote:anyone heard any news on scholarships recently?
i was accepted just before the break and haven't heard anything yet... starting to get a little concerned i won't be getting anything.


I was accepted around the same time and haven't received anything. What are your stats? I'm 161 3.82




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