UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

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snichols16
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby snichols16 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:49 am

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Last edited by snichols16 on Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mybrain
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby mybrain » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:55 am

ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.

just wonder what kind of courses people wanted to take but not available?

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lawandi
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lawandi » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:40 am

mybrain wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.

just wonder what kind of courses people wanted to take but not available?


and how do they choose who gets into a course?

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:46 am

We choose classes online. That is not the issue.

The main issue is that with limited resources, few classes are offered. When classes are offered, they often conflict. At larger schools, you may have more than one section to choose for a particular course. Here, if there conflicts, you can't pick another section to negate the conflict. You simply pick one course over another.

People wanted to take courses in business, intellectual property litigation, as well as more advanced courses. For example, only the basic courses are offered. If you really liked employment law, then you don't have much options beyond the basic employment course.

If you are paying full tuition, this is a serious problem.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:48 am

snichols16 wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.


So you're upset that you couldn't get a course you wanted at a school that you knew would have limited course offerings and are taking it out on UCI by telling us not to attend? Emotions have interfered with good sense?


Please don't make assumptions about people. A larger problem is that the Dean said if 5 people want to take a course, they will offer it. This has not been the case. Also more problematic is that some courses that were promised were simply not offered.

This is more than simply emotions interfering with good sense.

dtl
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby dtl » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:35 am

jck4487 wrote:I bet the waitlist is pretty good. My buddy who was waitlisted had numbers that are just slightly below mine. I don't think, knowing the culture at UC Irvine, that they'd waitlist anyone they wouldn't accept. Sure, maybe not the entire wait list would make the class numbers wise, but I think everyone on the waitlist is probably amazing.


I am waitlisted with both numbers below their 25th... I woo'ed them with environmental science publishing background...

I know it will end up not being enough but god do I want irvine.

I am thinking this "We are keeping our numbers the same regardless" is game over for me. Anyone concur/disagree?
Last edited by dtl on Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lfp
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lfp » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:57 am

Clarification help for those who already signed the SIR: I'm making a game-time decision on where I'm going, and I want to know if the SIR is binding, or just one of two steps before actually registering. Irvine asks for this by Friday, but the other school I'm weighing doesn't need notification until the 28th. I'm wondering if I can sign the SIR and then buy some time while I finalize my decision without locking myself in. Help.

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lawandi
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lawandi » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:03 pm

lfp wrote:Clarification help for those who already signed the SIR: I'm making a game-time decision on where I'm going, and I want to know if the SIR is binding, or just one of two steps before actually registering. Irvine asks for this by Friday, but the other school I'm weighing doesn't need notification until the 28th. I'm wondering if I can sign the SIR and then buy some time while I finalize my decision without locking myself in. Help.


absolutely. this is a quote from my SIR confirmation:
"If in the future your Intent to Register changes, please contact the UCI School of Law Admissions Office at lawadmit@law.uci.edu or (949) 824-4545."

edit: also, they wouldn't be giving scholly raises to people that had already submitted SIR's (i.e. me) if the SIR was binding.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:11 pm

lfp wrote:Clarification help for those who already signed the SIR: I'm making a game-time decision on where I'm going, and I want to know if the SIR is binding, or just one of two steps before actually registering. Irvine asks for this by Friday, but the other school I'm weighing doesn't need notification until the 28th. I'm wondering if I can sign the SIR and then buy some time while I finalize my decision without locking myself in. Help.



SIR isn't really binding. We had many people (who signed SIRs) get off the waitlist at other schools and ended going there at the last minute.

Iqbalz
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby Iqbalz » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:37 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:
snichols16 wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.


So you're upset that you couldn't get a course you wanted at a school that you knew would have limited course offerings and are taking it out on UCI by telling us not to attend? Emotions have interfered with good sense?


Please don't make assumptions about people. A larger problem is that the Dean said if 5 people want to take a course, they will offer it. This has not been the case. Also more problematic is that some courses that were promised were simply not offered.

This is more than simply emotions interfering with good sense.


I can't tell if ucilawinsider is serious or not, but "many people" are also not unhappy. I am a 1L and I am not unhappy. I look forward to Federal Courts, Business Associations, Copyright, Dispute Resolution, Federal Tax, and so on. It is true, some of these classes might be competitive to get into. It is also true that there are time conflicts in the schedule. Choices must be made. So it goes.

Our access to prominent professors is probably unmatched. I would trade that any day for course offerings that cater to my pet interests. To be sure, that is because I am much more concerned with career opportunities than academic ones.

Snichols, the Trojan Network is fine, no doubt, but you are not a statistic. I met you. You will do well anywhere and pull any big LA firm you want. Unless SC gives you a full ride, consider making the bolder move. UCI will brand you better than any alumni network which will get you plenty of handshakes, but what else? Stay in LA and commute. I do it every day. My summer employers were impressed by this fact and I feel that I get the best of both worlds.

berkeleygrad09
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby berkeleygrad09 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:45 pm

Thanks for presenting the other side to this - very valid points. I'm still super excited for Irvine - as long as I can get classes that align with my main goals careerwise, I'm happy.

jck4487
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby jck4487 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:11 pm

berkeleygrad09 wrote:Thanks for presenting the other side to this - very valid points. I'm still super excited for Irvine - as long as I can get classes that align with my main goals careerwise, I'm happy.


Agreed. Conflicting classes is part of going to school. My undergrad prgram had 1000 students in it and still there were classes that conflicted. I think that's just the way it works out sometimes. I'm still not concerned about that. Besides, our class will be much larger than the 2L and 1L classes.

bhan87
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby bhan87 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:45 pm

jck4487 wrote:
berkeleygrad09 wrote:Thanks for presenting the other side to this - very valid points. I'm still super excited for Irvine - as long as I can get classes that align with my main goals careerwise, I'm happy.


Agreed. Conflicting classes is part of going to school. My undergrad prgram had 1000 students in it and still there were classes that conflicted. I think that's just the way it works out sometimes. I'm still not concerned about that. Besides, our class will be much larger than the 2L and 1L classes.


A lot of conflicts occur because professors don't want to teach at certain time periods (no one likes waking up early enough for a 8 AM course or stay long enough for a course at 5 PM). I doubt this is a problem endemic only to UCI, but to any school

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:18 pm

bhan87 wrote:
jck4487 wrote:
berkeleygrad09 wrote:Thanks for presenting the other side to this - very valid points. I'm still super excited for Irvine - as long as I can get classes that align with my main goals careerwise, I'm happy.


Agreed. Conflicting classes is part of going to school. My undergrad prgram had 1000 students in it and still there were classes that conflicted. I think that's just the way it works out sometimes. I'm still not concerned about that. Besides, our class will be much larger than the 2L and 1L classes.


A lot of conflicts occur because professors don't want to teach at certain time periods (no one likes waking up early enough for a 8 AM course or stay long enough for a course at 5 PM). I doubt this is a problem endemic only to UCI, but to any school


I think a very simple solution to someone who is concerned about this is thus: look at UCI's course schedule and compare it to a school you are interested in. Which school offers courses that excite you or inspire you? Which school offers courses that fit better with your professional goals?

If someone really wants to do sports or entertainment law, for example, UCI might not be a top choice. But if public interest is your goal, UCI is great.

jck4487
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby jck4487 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:47 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:
bhan87 wrote:
jck4487 wrote:
berkeleygrad09 wrote:Thanks for presenting the other side to this - very valid points. I'm still super excited for Irvine - as long as I can get classes that align with my main goals careerwise, I'm happy.


Agreed. Conflicting classes is part of going to school. My undergrad prgram had 1000 students in it and still there were classes that conflicted. I think that's just the way it works out sometimes. I'm still not concerned about that. Besides, our class will be much larger than the 2L and 1L classes.


A lot of conflicts occur because professors don't want to teach at certain time periods (no one likes waking up early enough for a 8 AM course or stay long enough for a course at 5 PM). I doubt this is a problem endemic only to UCI, but to any school


I think a very simple solution to someone who is concerned about this is thus: look at UCI's course schedule and compare it to a school you are interested in. Which school offers courses that excite you or inspire you? Which school offers courses that fit better with your professional goals?

If someone really wants to do sports or entertainment law, for example, UCI might not be a top choice. But if public interest is your goal, UCI is great.


Just out of curiosity, what classes aren't you able to take, ucilawinsider?

snichols16
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby snichols16 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:55 pm

Iqbalz wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:
snichols16 wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:
Snichols, the Trojan Network is fine, no doubt, but you are not a statistic. I met you. You will do well anywhere and pull any big LA firm you want. Unless SC gives you a full ride, consider making the bolder move. UCI will brand you better than any alumni network which will get you plenty of handshakes, but what else? Stay in LA and commute. I do it every day. My summer employers were impressed by this fact and I feel that I get the best of both worlds.


Thanks for the thoughts. While I am thinking about LA, I am also thinking bigger. After I got my package from 'SC, I talked with my friends who work for Cravath, Gibson, and Lathem and they all noted 'SC people in their LA, SF, and NYC offices. That's huge. I know that I could possibly lateral to another office if I get into the LA office from Irvine and I know that UCI said they are working on developing ties with offices in NYC, but I want every option and the best options open to me that are possible. I'm starting to believe the hype about UCI, though. I just wish I could see a firm commitment from Lathem and Irell that they are going to be hiring UCI grads.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:32 pm

Snichols, the Trojan Network is fine, no doubt, but you are not a statistic. I met you. You will do well anywhere and pull any big LA firm you want. Unless SC gives you a full ride, consider making the bolder move. UCI will brand you better than any alumni network which will get you plenty of handshakes, but what else? Stay in LA and commute. I do it every day. My summer employers were impressed by this fact and I feel that I get the best of both worlds.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Thanks for the thoughts. While I am thinking about LA, I am also thinking bigger. After I got my package from 'SC, I talked with my friends who work for Cravath, Gibson, and Lathem and they all noted 'SC people in their LA, SF, and NYC offices. That's huge. I know that I could possibly lateral to another office if I get into the LA office from Irvine and I know that UCI said they are working on developing ties with offices in NYC, but I want every option and the best options open to me that are possible. I'm starting to believe the hype about UCI, though. I just wish I could see a firm commitment from Lathem and Irell that they are going to be hiring UCI grads.[/quote]

Latham was UCI's OCI and Irell did a resume collect (did not actually come to campus) last year. To my knowledge, no one is working there this summer from UCI.

I would not put all my hopes that ties to NYC offices will be developed. This will not happen to any great degree by the time you get to OCI. If you want a job at a big firm in OC, UCI could be a great way to do that. If you want a job at a big firm in SF or NYC, it will be harder (but certainly not impossible).

Since it sounds like you want a big firm job, it boils down to one question: how high of a GPA do you think you can get in your first year?

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:35 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:Snichols, the Trojan Network is fine, no doubt, but you are not a statistic. I met you. You will do well anywhere and pull any big LA firm you want. Unless SC gives you a full ride, consider making the bolder move. UCI will brand you better than any alumni network which will get you plenty of handshakes, but what else? Stay in LA and commute. I do it every day. My summer employers were impressed by this fact and I feel that I get the best of both worlds.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Thanks for the thoughts. While I am thinking about LA, I am also thinking bigger. After I got my package from 'SC, I talked with my friends who work for Cravath, Gibson, and Lathem and they all noted 'SC people in their LA, SF, and NYC offices. That's huge. I know that I could possibly lateral to another office if I get into the LA office from Irvine and I know that UCI said they are working on developing ties with offices in NYC, but I want every option and the best options open to me that are possible. I'm starting to believe the hype about UCI, though. I just wish I could see a firm commitment from Lathem and Irell that they are going to be hiring UCI grads.[/quote]

Latham was UCI's OCI and Irell did a resume collect (did not actually come to campus) last year. To my knowledge, no one is working there this summer from UCI.

I would not put all my hopes that ties to NYC offices will be developed. This will not happen to any great degree by the time you get to OCI. If you want a job at a big firm in OC, UCI could be a great way to do that. If you want a job at a big firm in SF or NYC, it will be harder (but certainly not impossible).

Since it sounds like you want a big firm job, it boils down to one question: how high of a GPA do you think you can get in your first year?[/quote]

In interest of fairness, there are UCI folks that will be at some large firms this summer: OMM, Milbank, GDC, Sheppard Mullin. Those firms came to OCI.

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:02 pm

lfp wrote:I would like to take a moment to say that Dean Chemerinsky is amazing. I just wrote him a long email, with questions in several parts (I'm destined for law school, obviously), and he got back to me with actual answers in 12 minutes. TWELVE.


I still remember sending him an email sometime between 2 and 3AM and he got back to me within half an hour - needless to say I was in shock. He is truly amazing and I think he never sleeps.

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:05 pm

snichols16 wrote:
mybrain wrote:
snichols16 wrote:Did anyone else just get their scholly increased?

here!
increased to 40% from 1/3. Everyone got the same increase?


This has me worried. Why did they increase scholarships? Is their yield of qualified applications going to be lower than expected?


I suspect as some applicants withdraw, they are increasing money to other students - some of the people who were offered more money initially might have withdrew. If it is a universal increase then there is a chance Dean C managed to raise more money somehow.

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:48 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.


What classes are you thinking of? I admit it was sad to see two classes I really wanted to take booked at the same time, but that happens everywhere. So I have no idea who ucilawinsider is, but I guess it is realistic to expect that not everyone is happy here and it is fair to hear that voice as well. If you come to visit on any random day though, I suspect you will see ucilawinsider is a true exception. And there are some people who are just not gong to be happy no matter where they go to law school. Is UCI perfect? No, it isn't. But if you look at most of the potential downsides to UCI, they also correlate to something else that is an upside. And who knows, maybe I'd have been happily telling everyone to attend wherever I went because I am the type to make an informed decision and then see the positives and not the negatives of that decision once I've made it.

I mentioned in another post that UCI will have fewer course offerings than some larger schools - it's a trade off. For me I prefer the small classes and access to the professors than a large school with a ton of classes but that are more impersonal. My decision last year came down to one of the largest law schools in the country by student body and UC Irvine - and size played a big role in my decision. You can only take 4-5 classes a semester anyway. And really there are no classes you NEED in law school after the first year, and from what I can see bar classes are being offered. Not everything will be offered every semester however, or during the times one would like. Also students are welcome to take independent studies, and in a meeting a few weeks ago we were told a small group could also put together a self-directed reading group/seminar for class credit with a faculty member acting as an adviser but not actually teaching the class.

In the interest of full disclosure -

Classes for next semester are: federal courts, business associations, an advanced legal research class, a seminar on equal protection, evidence, federal income tax, a note writing class, patent law, civil rights litigation, dispute resolution, appellate advocacy, consumer law, bankruptcy seminar, copyright, election law, employment and employment discrimination, entertainment law, family law, seminar on interdisciplinary studies and the law, international business transactions, Advanced Legal Profession: Economics and Management of Pro Bono Practice, property, remedies, trademark, trial advocacy, a graduate level class on environmental law (fall quarter), and 5 clinics (appellate advocacy, immigration, community economic development, environmental, and fair housing and employment - 30 class offerings for 140ish students

Proposed classes for Spring are (and is expected that more options will exist, and there is a chance some of these won't be offered): Administrative Law, Advanced Criminal Procedure, Advanced Legal Writing: Business Drafting, Advocating for Vulnerable Children: From Foster Care to Juvenile Justice, American Legal History, Antitrust, Antitrust Law and IP Rights, Business Law Colloquium, Cause Lawyering (Seminar), Community Property,
Constitutional Law: First Amendment, Criminal Procedure, Critical Identity Theory, Digital Copyright, Environmental Law, Evidence, Feminist Legal Theory (Seminar), Immigration Law, Insurance Law, International Environmental Law, IP Survey, Law Office Management Practicum, Organizations, Operations & Tax Aspects of Public Charities and Private Foundations, Partnership Tax, Private Equity Hedge Fund (Seminar), Regulatory Reform (Seminar), Sports & Entertainment Law: Negotiation and Practice, Trial Advocacy, Wills Trusts & Estates, note writing class,Land Use and Development Control Law (PPD) CLINICS: Department of Fair Employment and Housing Clinic, International Human Rights Clinic, Appellate Litigation Clinic, Community Economic Development Clinic, Environmental Law Clinic, Immigration Clinic

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:57 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:
snichols16 wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:Schedules just came out today and many people are unhappy. There is talk that people will not be able to take courses they need/want.

There are other considerations but this might be one most relevant to you.


So you're upset that you couldn't get a course you wanted at a school that you knew would have limited course offerings and are taking it out on UCI by telling us not to attend? Emotions have interfered with good sense?


Please don't make assumptions about people. A larger problem is that the Dean said if 5 people want to take a course, they will offer it. This has not been the case. Also more problematic is that some courses that were promised were simply not offered.

This is more than simply emotions interfering with good sense.


When Professor Chacon talked about course offerings a few weeks ago, she said they would "try" to offer the course if 5 or more people wanted it. It is true that Dean C said if 5 or more people wanted a course they would offer it - but not necessarily in the next year. Professor Chacon did end up qualifying that promise by saying there were some limitation. A space law course comes to mind where it isn't easy to find a professor to come teach a specialized class like that for one semester. As I previously mentioned though, if you really want a class you can study it via independent study or through a small group seminar with other students - so it is still possible to get the education you want even if there won't necessarily be a professor teaching it directly to you.

Regarding specific courses that were promised and not offered, it wouldn't hurt to talk to Dean C and Professor Chacon and find out what happened. Sometimes things are just not possible and sometimes things happen. For example, one of your criminal and immigration professors has to go on maternity leave, or one of your professors gets homesick for the south and leaves UCI, leaving some reshuffling that has to get done as a result. Expect the unexpected as they say.

lfp
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lfp » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:14 pm

I'm desperate. I'm turning to the ether of the internet for help with this decision. Seriously - do I take Irvine?

I want to do feminist jurisprudence/constitutional law and prepare myself for a career helping women/defending same-sex couples/reproductive rights/etc., but I'm stuck picking between UCI and the University of Denver. On its face, there's no comparison. But DU offered me a public service award good for 3 years of free tuition, and I grew up in Denver. Plus, DU already has a long, long list of feminist scholars and tons of course offerings in what I want to do, and the scholarship does provide a sense of gravitas in the job market and give me better access to the faculty and such. But Irvine is... Irvine. I enjoyed my visits to both schools, and based on my gut feeling at both institutions, I could be happy at either.

After weeks of fretting, I'm really down to the wire; does UCI's obvious lead in employment prospects outweigh the debt-free-ness of DU? Can I bank my financial solvency on UCI? HELP ME PLEASE.

(And for those of you whom I met at ASD, you're all a plus in the UCI column :))

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lawandi
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lawandi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:22 pm

lfp wrote:I'm desperate. I'm turning to the ether of the internet for help with this decision. Seriously - do I take Irvine?

I want to do feminist jurisprudence/constitutional law and prepare myself for a career helping women/defending same-sex couples/reproductive rights/etc., but I'm stuck picking between UCI and the University of Denver. On its face, there's no comparison. But DU offered me a public service award good for 3 years of free tuition, and I grew up in Denver. Plus, DU already has a long, long list of feminist scholars and tons of course offerings in what I want to do, and the scholarship does provide a sense of gravitas in the job market and give me better access to the faculty and such. But Irvine is... Irvine. I enjoyed my visits to both schools, and based on my gut feeling at both institutions, I could be happy at either.

After weeks of fretting, I'm really down to the wire; does UCI's obvious lead in employment prospects outweigh the debt-free-ness of DU? Can I bank my financial solvency on UCI? HELP ME PLEASE.

(And for those of you whom I met at ASD, you're all a plus in the UCI column :))


I've never heard of DU, so I can't help you in that way. But come to UCI!!! Please? We need to start a women's/ gender law journal together ;)

hellohello
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby hellohello » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:34 pm

quick question- is the SIR for uci law binding?
what if we get off of a waitlist?




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