UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

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snichols16
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby snichols16 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:15 pm

red_alertz wrote:what do you guys think the applicant size this year for UCI? its been ridiculously large last two years


They say applications are down across the board, but I'm sure the money from UCI is keeping their pool above median size.

jck4487
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby jck4487 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:42 am

I got the official packet yesterday - I'm excited for admitted students' day. Who else is coming?

pimpsdontcry
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby pimpsdontcry » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:03 am

jck4487 wrote:I got the official packet yesterday - I'm excited for admitted students' day. Who else is coming?


i'll should be there. got the phone call today haha

what day is it btw?

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sanguar
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby sanguar » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:56 am

jck4487 wrote:I got the official packet yesterday - I'm excited for admitted students' day. Who else is coming?


Sadly can't go for the official visit (it's on March 31 - for whoever asked). Flying out two days earlier to see the place, though, and they've been impressively helpful w/r/t letting me set up any meetings I want so that I don't miss any of the informational content from the official activities.

lfp
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lfp » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:26 am

jck4487 wrote:I got the official packet yesterday - I'm excited for admitted students' day. Who else is coming?


I am! Haven't booked anything yet - hoping to do a Bay Area swing while I'm on the west coast - but I'm looking forward to it. Earlier there was mention of current students offering couches for those coming for ASD... is that still a potential option? Really like the idea of saving a bit, since it's already pretty expensive to fly from the east coast.

jck4487
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby jck4487 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:38 pm

lfp wrote:
jck4487 wrote:I got the official packet yesterday - I'm excited for admitted students' day. Who else is coming?


I am! Haven't booked anything yet - hoping to do a Bay Area swing while I'm on the west coast - but I'm looking forward to it. Earlier there was mention of current students offering couches for those coming for ASD... is that still a potential option? Really like the idea of saving a bit, since it's already pretty expensive to fly from the east coast.


Yep, it says there may be the opportunity to "limited overnight stay with current 1L or 2L students" and to contact Dean Austin if you're interested. It says to e-mail her. I bet those opportunities will disappear quickly, so I'd jump on it. Since I'm driving from out of state (I live in Utah) and they don't reimburse for that, I'm going to get a hotel.

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conroyc
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby conroyc » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:52 pm

Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

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red_alertz
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby red_alertz » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:07 pm

conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.


I would even without any scholarships... too bad they might not take me, it was my undergrad and I screwed it up, hoping to turn it around this time if I can get in

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adamdroog
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby adamdroog » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:18 pm

conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.

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conroyc
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby conroyc » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:04 pm

adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.


Based upon the numbers in your profile, I'm quite surprised that they didn't offer you the 1/2 tuition... Do you plan on trying to negotiate in the near future?

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adamdroog
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby adamdroog » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:42 pm

conroyc wrote:
adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.


Based upon the numbers in your profile, I'm quite surprised that they didn't offer you the 1/2 tuition... Do you plan on trying to negotiate in the near future?

I am waiting to hear about money from Northwestern and see if I get accepted at Georgetown or Cornell, before trying to negotiate the scholarship. If they matched my WUSTL offer of 28k a year, I would really consider attending.

Update: I emailed asking for a scholarship increase and was shut down. I cannot rationally pick UCI with 1/3 scholarship over Northwestern and Cornell even at sticker, so I don't think I will be attending.
Last edited by adamdroog on Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:49 am

snichols16 wrote:
red_alertz wrote:what do you guys think the applicant size this year for UCI? its been ridiculously large last two years


They say applications are down across the board, but I'm sure the money from UCI is keeping their pool above median size.


I heard the Dean say that the numbers of applications are lower than previous year's, but that is due to a late hiring of an admissions director. The quality of the year's admitted students is just as good as previous year's. Of course, the yield may be completely different from previous years.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:35 am

adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:
adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.


Based upon the numbers in your profile, I'm quite surprised that they didn't offer you the 1/2 tuition... Do you plan on trying to negotiate in the near future?

I am waiting to hear about money from Northwestern and see if I get accepted at Georgetown or Cornell, before trying to negotiate the scholarship. If they matched my WUSTL offer of 28k a year, I would really consider attending.


All other things equal, I would choose NU, Georgetown, and Cornell over UCI. But UCI over WUSTL.

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sanguar
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby sanguar » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am

adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.


This is one of my major concerns. The program at UCI isn't perfect for me - not a lot of "law and philosophy" faculty there from what I can tell. But I like a lot of other things about the program in general. But the $ thing is a big stumbling block for me. They offered me 1/2 tuition (and I LOVE that it "scales" with any future increases in tuition - which is not the case for the offers at a lot of other schools), but I've got slightly more than 1/2 on the table from UCLA (also from Texas, but I like UCLA a lot more than Texas for a variety of reasons). With 1/2-ish offers from both UCI and UCLA, total COA at UCLA is slightly higher, but I have a hard time thinking that the difference in price (even factoring in potential tuition increases at UCLA) is enough to justify going to UCI over UCLA.

Mostly I'm throwing my current thought-process out there to see what people think. Thoughts?

Also, this might be of interest to some struggling with similar thoughts:
I had a long talk with one of the faculty on the admissions committee last week and this is one of the things we talked about. She did make a good point, however, on this topic, that it seems worth relaying to those puzzling over this issue. At the larger and more established schools, typically (according to her - I have no firsthand knowledge of this), you don't get a whole lot of faculty/institutional support on the job market unless you're at least in the top 50% of your class - and more commonly unless you're in the top 33% of your class. Whereas at UCI, (1) because of the smaller size and (2) because job-placement statistics are part of the ranking criteria and the school is really committed to getting highly ranked, pretty much all the students get a considerable amount of faculty/institutional support when it comes to hitting the job market.

If you're certain that you'd be in the top 33%-50% of your class at another school, then this might not be a big deal, but her point was that though there's some risk associated with UCI because of the no-rankings thing, there's a different kind of risk associated with going to some of the other more established schools as well. Whether these cancel each other out may be up for debate, but it seems a relevant consideration.

lfp
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby lfp » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:51 am

No, I definitely hear you. Especially on the lack of designated faculty. But one thing I love about UCI - at least from what I've read and in conversation - is that you can petition to get the classes you want on the schedule. For me, I'm very committed to doing feminist jurisprudence, but other than your Harvards and Yales, there isn't a lot of dedicated faculty out there for it. Which means, if I went to pretty much any other school, I'd be working with people who aren't as committed to that sort of scholarship, with no means of changing it. At Irvine, at least, there's the ability to find 4 other people who want a class on reproductive rights, say, or sexual orientation law, and then the school will find someone to teach it. The professors may not have the same weight at a Catharine MacKinnon or Robin West, but at least the coursework is there. I really like the idea of a make-your-own law school.

Which means, Sanguar, you could personally advocate for more law and philosophy coursework.

Not like I'm trying to sell anyone on this; I'm not 100% to UCI myself, but it's currently the most enticing option for me, as I wait to hear from everyone else.

But the tuition thing is important too; Irvine is wicked expensive - $50,000 for out-of-staters like me - and I've gotten near-full offers from other schools. Even with the generous 1/3, that's still more a year than sticker at a lot of places.

mybrain
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby mybrain » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:23 pm

Are there any others besides me who applied in Nov (I applied late Nov) and heard nothing yet?
Should I email the admission office to check the process?

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:46 pm

lfp wrote:No, I definitely hear you. Especially on the lack of designated faculty. But one thing I love about UCI - at least from what I've read and in conversation - is that you can petition to get the classes you want on the schedule. For me, I'm very committed to doing feminist jurisprudence, but other than your Harvards and Yales, there isn't a lot of dedicated faculty out there for it. Which means, if I went to pretty much any other school, I'd be working with people who aren't as committed to that sort of scholarship, with no means of changing it. At Irvine, at least, there's the ability to find 4 other people who want a class on reproductive rights, say, or sexual orientation law, and then the school will find someone to teach it. The professors may not have the same weight at a Catharine MacKinnon or Robin West, but at least the coursework is there. I really like the idea of a make-your-own law school.

Which means, Sanguar, you could personally advocate for more law and philosophy coursework.

Not like I'm trying to sell anyone on this; I'm not 100% to UCI myself, but it's currently the most enticing option for me, as I wait to hear from everyone else.

But the tuition thing is important too; Irvine is wicked expensive - $50,000 for out-of-staters like me - and I've gotten near-full offers from other schools. Even with the generous 1/3, that's still more a year than sticker at a lot of places.


Petitioning for a class is not as easy as it seems. The school has to find an appropriate adjunct faculty member to teach the class. Adjuncts vary in quality. The school might not even find a potential adjunct to teach your desired class.

As far as jobs go, it is difficult for many UCI students to find jobs. The school tries to help all of its students but the help varies. Right now the school is looking into smaller firms to help students, along with making introductions to lawyers working in the public interest.

Below is a list of upper-level classes offered now at UCI. Compare this to the upper-level courses at UCLA (http://www.law.ucla.edu/current-student ... edule.aspx)

UCI Law courses
Labor Law
Administrative Law
Business Associations
Con Law: 1st Amend
Criminal Procedure
Evidence
Federal Income Tax
IP
Patent
Civil Rights Litigation
Negotiation
Environmental
Antitrust
Fed Crim Law
Property
Copyright
Int'l Bus. Transactions
Int'l Human Rights
Legal History
Race and the Law
Spanish for Lawyers
Immigration Law
Nonprofit Organizations
Media Law
Trial Advocacy
Corporate Tax

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:48 pm

sanguar wrote:
adamdroog wrote:
conroyc wrote:Just curious, but is anyone seriously considering attending with only the 1/3 scholarship? I am completely on the fence because I love the atmosphere and the idea of helping to essentially shape the law school, but I really don't know if it's worth the risk of taking on so much debt at an unproven school.

I would only consider attending Irvine with 1/2+ scholarship. We'll see if they are willing to negotiate this year.


This is one of my major concerns. The program at UCI isn't perfect for me - not a lot of "law and philosophy" faculty there from what I can tell. But I like a lot of other things about the program in general. But the $ thing is a big stumbling block for me. They offered me 1/2 tuition (and I LOVE that it "scales" with any future increases in tuition - which is not the case for the offers at a lot of other schools), but I've got slightly more than 1/2 on the table from UCLA (also from Texas, but I like UCLA a lot more than Texas for a variety of reasons). With 1/2-ish offers from both UCI and UCLA, total COA at UCLA is slightly higher, but I have a hard time thinking that the difference in price (even factoring in potential tuition increases at UCLA) is enough to justify going to UCI over UCLA.

Mostly I'm throwing my current thought-process out there to see what people think. Thoughts?

Also, this might be of interest to some struggling with similar thoughts:
I had a long talk with one of the faculty on the admissions committee last week and this is one of the things we talked about. She did make a good point, however, on this topic, that it seems worth relaying to those puzzling over this issue. At the larger and more established schools, typically (according to her - I have no firsthand knowledge of this), you don't get a whole lot of faculty/institutional support on the job market unless you're at least in the top 50% of your class - and more commonly unless you're in the top 33% of your class. Whereas at UCI, (1) because of the smaller size and (2) because job-placement statistics are part of the ranking criteria and the school is really committed to getting highly ranked, pretty much all the students get a considerable amount of faculty/institutional support when it comes to hitting the job market.

If you're certain that you'd be in the top 33%-50% of your class at another school, then this might not be a big deal, but her point was that though there's some risk associated with UCI because of the no-rankings thing, there's a different kind of risk associated with going to some of the other more established schools as well. Whether these cancel each other out may be up for debate, but it seems a relevant consideration.


If you love law & philosophy, it's important you get your training from a prestigious program, especially if you want to go into academia. I would choose UCLA or UT over UCI.

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sanguar
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby sanguar » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:39 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:
If you love law & philosophy, it's important you get your training from a prestigious program, especially if you want to go into academia. I would choose UCLA or UT over UCI.


That's the impression I've gotten from others as well who are more "in the know" than me. Of course, though I am aiming for an academic position (does "law and phil" even help for any other sort of career?), I don't want to limit my post-graduation job-options. So I'm not making a top-notch law and phil program a non-negotiable prerequisite for schools I consider, but it is a big factor in my deliberations.

ucilawinsider
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby ucilawinsider » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:48 pm

sanguar wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:
If you love law & philosophy, it's important you get your training from a prestigious program, especially if you want to go into academia. I would choose UCLA or UT over UCI.


That's the impression I've gotten from others as well who are more "in the know" than me. Of course, though I am aiming for an academic position (does "law and phil" even help for any other sort of career?), I don't want to limit my post-graduation job-options. So I'm not making a top-notch law and phil program a non-negotiable prerequisite for schools I consider, but it is a big factor in my deliberations.


If you want a traditional legal academic career, you will need to (1) clerk (federal appellate is bets), (2) work in private practice at a well-known firm for about 2-5 years and (3) have at least a couple of papers published. Taking care of (1) and (2) is easier coming out of a top-ranked program, but definitely do-able coming out of UCI.

If you want a law & philosophy legal academic career, it will be more difficult. There are lots of people who want to do that. You will absolutely have to go to a top program and a Ph.D. would help, but of course not required. The way the legal academic job market is right now, law and philosophy isn't as hot as other fields. That's why it is absolutely critical you graduate from a top program and publish a lot.

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:53 pm

ucilawinsider wrote:All other things equal, I would choose NU, Georgetown, and Cornell over UCI. But UCI over WUSTL.


I would definitely pick UCI over Georgetown - totally different experiences in terms of size. But that is an individual choice you have to make.

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LiveFreeOrLaw
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby LiveFreeOrLaw » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:57 pm

uci2013 wrote:
ucilawinsider wrote:All other things equal, I would choose NU, Georgetown, and Cornell over UCI. But UCI over WUSTL.


I would definitely pick UCI over Georgetown - totally different experiences in terms of size. But that is an individual choice you have to make.


Do you go to UCI?

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LiveFreeOrLaw
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby LiveFreeOrLaw » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:58 pm

LOL @ posters here trying to get neutral, informed advice from UCI 1Ls.

uci2013
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby uci2013 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:51 pm

lfp wrote:
Which means, Sanguar, you could personally advocate for more law and philosophy coursework.


I will be one, and I know at least one more, interested in jurisprudence classes.

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sanguar
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Re: UC Irvine 2011 Applicants

Postby sanguar » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:11 am

ucilawinsider wrote:
If you want a law & philosophy legal academic career, it will be more difficult. There are lots of people who want to do that. You will absolutely have to go to a top program and a Ph.D. would help, but of course not required. The way the legal academic job market is right now, law and philosophy isn't as hot as other fields. That's why it is absolutely critical you graduate from a top program and publish a lot.


It's worth noting that I already have two M.A.'s in philosophy and have nearly completed my Ph.D. (expect to defend my dissertation in August prior to starting classes). A top law program, particularly with a top-notch law and philosophy program, will still help. But given my background it's not an absolutely necessary prerequisite.




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