Top Law Schools

irishvt14 wrote:Yeah, it is bad advice. You should absolutely not be in contact with them more than once a week but really more like once every two weeks. Many forums suggest once a month. If you have nothing new to say, don't call them. They know you exist. And it is not too many ifs. That is the game.

Oh, OK. It's actually been less than that. Just more often recently, since I was told people would come off the WL in July. Would it be a good idea to contact the dean or a faculty member, rather than the admissions assistant?

This is ridiculous. Yes, tons of people on here are arrogant, but I'd say the most arrogant posters are the ones with high LSAT scores. You got a 163. I said this before, but that is not a shoe-in at Pepperdine. There is no reason for you to say things like "I would tear law school up". What does that even mean? Admissions committees believe that the LSAT is the best predictor of your potential success in law school. A score of 163 is fine (that's what I earned--I'm not judging), but you can't sit there saying you are 100% sure that you would kick ass at law school. EVERY SINGLE STUDENT THAT COMES IN IS DETERMINED. YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE.

A) Not every single student that comes in is determined. You know which ones aren't. I can see which ones aren't in B-school for sure. And I could spot the half-assed Film students a mile away.

B) 163 doesn't seem that high to me. I know it was 88th percentile or whatever, but I was still a little disappointed. I wish I had another 5-6 minutes on the logic games. I never had to do anything like that in school before, so it was the hardest section for me.

C) "I would tear law school up" means that I would be an excellent student. Better than waitlist status for sure. I know 163 isn't a shoe-in for Pepperdine, but it is just above average. I don't feel standardized tests are always indicative of performance (my 1480 SAT didn't predict all the personal problems that would I deal with at UPenn). I do have the skills needed to succeed at law school, though. I have no problem reading extremely dry material all day, I write quickly and well, and I am good at public speaking and rhetoric. I am not so good at quantitative analysis, accounting, finance, and many of the things needed in business school. So, yes, I can say with 100% certainty that I would kick ass at law school, and everyone I know who I've talked to about doing it says I would be great. I am sorry if that sounds arrogant. To me, that sounds like an honest assessment. I am not going to sit here and post results of personal testing I had done when I thought I might have ADD or some type of learning disability to prove myself. I know I excel in some things, and I lack in others.

D) Finally, have you read through the last several pages of this thread? How am I the arrogant one? I was asking for advice in good faith, and I got a bunch of smarmy bullshit.

It's not up to Pepperdine to tell you that you could wait until the beginning of classes. I don't know anyone else who didn't know that. You should've researched more. You should've asked them when the final decision would have to be made the moment they waitlisted you.

I was told the committee meets periodically over the course of the summer. I've never been on a waitlist before, I didn't expect to be on the waitlist, and I don't have any lawyers in my family and only a few friends going through it now. I didn't get to research law school as well as I would have liked because I was a full-time business student and I worked on campus. I had an hour and a half commute to campus there and back, and I was usually there 9-10 hours a day.

So don't leave LA? No one said you needed to. Monterary issues are relevant for the majority of people applying to law school. Loyola would have been a great place to apply and it would have been a real change of pace from Pepperdine.

I don't know much about it. I can research more. I would really prefer to be done the JD/MBA in the next three years, though. I need to start working. I really have people relying on me. Is there ANYTHING else worth doing to get off the WL now?

As for the arrogance, you don't need to be sorry, but don't pretend you don't realize you're making some bold statements. Saying something like "I don't even know if I want to practice law" is likely going to get you ousted on here and in school. And go ahead and stay friends with B-School kids instead of law school kids, but that's a douchey thing to say too.

I am hoping my Pepperdine law compatriots are friendlier than most of the posters here. And I don't know why saying "I don't even know if I want to practice law" would upset anyone. What percentage of law students don't go on to practice? I know it's gotten much higher in the past few years. Why would anyone else be upset with what I do after school, as long as it doesn't adversely affect them?

He still doesn't get it.

pure_mercury wrote:

irishvt14 wrote:Yeah, it is bad advice. You should absolutely not be in contact with them more than once a week but really more like once every two weeks. Many forums suggest once a month. If you have nothing new to say, don't call them. They know you exist. And it is not too many ifs. That is the game.

Oh, OK. It's actually been less than that. Just more often recently, since I was told people would come off the WL in July. Would it be a good idea to contact the dean or a faculty member, rather than the admissions assistant?

This is ridiculous. Yes, tons of people on here are arrogant, but I'd say the most arrogant posters are the ones with high LSAT scores. You got a 163. I said this before, but that is not a shoe-in at Pepperdine. There is no reason for you to say things like "I would tear law school up". What does that even mean? Admissions committees believe that the LSAT is the best predictor of your potential success in law school. A score of 163 is fine (that's what I earned--I'm not judging), but you can't sit there saying you are 100% sure that you would kick ass at law school. EVERY SINGLE STUDENT THAT COMES IN IS DETERMINED. YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE.

A) Not every single student that comes in is determined. You know which ones aren't. I can see which ones aren't in B-school for sure. And I could spot the half-assed Film students a mile away.

B) 163 doesn't seem that high to me. I know it was 88th percentile or whatever, but I was still a little disappointed. I wish I had another 5-6 minutes on the logic games. I never had to do anything like that in school before, so it was the hardest section for me.

C) "I would tear law school up" means that I would be an excellent student. Better than waitlist status for sure. I know 163 isn't a shoe-in for Pepperdine, but it is just above average. I don't feel standardized tests are always indicative of performance (my 1480 SAT didn't predict all the personal problems that would I deal with at UPenn). I do have the skills needed to succeed at law school, though. I have no problem reading extremely dry material all day, I write quickly and well, and I am good at public speaking and rhetoric. I am not so good at quantitative analysis, accounting, finance, and many of the things needed in business school. So, yes, I can say with 100% certainty that I would kick ass at law school, and everyone I know who I've talked to about doing it says I would be great. I am sorry if that sounds arrogant. To me, that sounds like an honest assessment. I am not going to sit here and post results of personal testing I had done when I thought I might have ADD or some type of learning disability to prove myself. I know I excel in some things, and I lack in others.

D) Finally, have you read through the last several pages of this thread? How am I the arrogant one? I was asking for advice in good faith, and I got a bunch of smarmy bullshit.

It's not up to Pepperdine to tell you that you could wait until the beginning of classes. I don't know anyone else who didn't know that. You should've researched more. You should've asked them when the final decision would have to be made the moment they waitlisted you.

I was told the committee meets periodically over the course of the summer. I've never been on a waitlist before, I didn't expect to be on the waitlist, and I don't have any lawyers in my family and only a few friends going through it now. I didn't get to research law school as well as I would have liked because I was a full-time business student and I worked on campus. I had an hour and a half commute to campus there and back, and I was usually there 9-10 hours a day.

So don't leave LA? No one said you needed to. Monterary issues are relevant for the majority of people applying to law school. Loyola would have been a great place to apply and it would have been a real change of pace from Pepperdine.

I don't know much about it. I can research more. I would really prefer to be done the JD/MBA in the next three years, though. I need to start working. I really have people relying on me. Is there ANYTHING else worth doing to get off the WL now?

As for the arrogance, you don't need to be sorry, but don't pretend you don't realize you're making some bold statements. Saying something like "I don't even know if I want to practice law" is likely going to get you ousted on here and in school. And go ahead and stay friends with B-School kids instead of law school kids, but that's a douchey thing to say too.

I am hoping my Pepperdine law compatriots are friendlier than most of the posters here. And I don't know why saying "I don't even know if I want to practice law" would upset anyone. What percentage of law students don't go on to practice? I know it's gotten much higher in the past few years. Why would anyone else be upset with what I do after school, as long as it doesn't adversely affect them?

I really really really hope you get into Pepperdine, either this year or the next, and let us know how it went after grades are posted.

Danteshek wrote:He still doesn't get it.

What exactly don't I get?

PinkCow wrote:I really really really hope you get into Pepperdine, either this year or the next, and let us know how it went after grades are posted.

Thank you. I hope I get in, too. And I will come back to let you all know how things went.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Here's the issue IMO: you have asked for more ideas over and over and over again. You won't accept that people here don't have anything new to tell you. We gave you our thoughts and advice. You didn't like it so you either argued our reasoning or ignored it completely and asked again. Asking a question a dozen times does not mean you will eventually get the answer you want (the magic answer to getting off the waitlist you think exists).

Honestly I am not trying to be a bitch, but sometimes you just need to accept what people are telling you and make the most of it.

irishvt14 wrote:Here's the issue IMO: you have asked for more ideas over and over and over again. You won't accept that people here don't have anything new to tell you. We gave you our thoughts and advice. You didn't like it so you either argued our reasoning or ignored it completely and asked again. Asking a question a dozen times does not mean you will eventually get the answer you want (the magic answer to getting off the waitlist you think exists).

I was asking for very specific advice. Not "Wait 'til next year, apply to more places, etc." No one has actually answered my question of whether to contact the dean or a faculty member. For the next three weeks, the only advice that is worth anything to me is what can better my chances to get off the WL. I will cross the future law school bridge when I come to it., but that is what I need right now. If you have no thoughts on the matter, that is fine, but I don't want anything tangential to my current issue. That is all.

Pure_Mercury...Oh, you're going to be fun to work with. Nut up and network with ppl at Pepperdine. Who cares if you contact the dean/admissions...at this point nothing can hurt...you dont need the validation of an online message board to be proactive in your own future. Also, if you're on the WL this late in the game, no matter how much they fawn over you, if you dont have the numbers/no one gives up their seat for another school, you are not going to get in. I'm wL at another school and have pulled every string I can, but if no one gives up their spot, I'm not getting in. Simple as that. This is not meant to be mean or argumentative at all, but if you're ready to be timid about getting in to law school, either you honestly do not want it bad enough or the law isnt for you. Think about what you REALLY want out of it all.

pure_mercury wrote:I was asking for very specific advice. Not "Wait 'til next year, apply to more places, etc." No one has actually answered my question of whether to contact the dean or a faculty member. For the next three weeks, the only advice that is worth anything to me is what can better my chances to get off the WL. I will cross the future law school bridge when I come to it., but that is what I need right now. If you have no thoughts on the matter, that is fine, but I don't want anything tangential to my current issue. That is all.

*reads last three pages*

Dude.

Calm down, realize that people have given you the best advice that they have, and you're not going to get better responses no matter how much noise you keep making. Also, that "I don't want anything tangential to my current issue" garbage belongs in threads that are about you, and not about, oh, say, the entire pool of Pepperdine applicants. Maybe if you had a better attitude, instead of treating this thread like your personal playground, you'd get better treatment from people.

vanwinkle wrote:

pure_mercury wrote:I was asking for very specific advice. Not "Wait 'til next year, apply to more places, etc." No one has actually answered my question of whether to contact the dean or a faculty member. For the next three weeks, the only advice that is worth anything to me is what can better my chances to get off the WL. I will cross the future law school bridge when I come to it., but that is what I need right now. If you have no thoughts on the matter, that is fine, but I don't want anything tangential to my current issue. That is all.

*reads last three pages*

Dude.

Calm down, realize that people have given you the best advice that they have, and you're not going to get better responses no matter how much noise you keep making. Also, that "I don't want anything tangential to my current issue" garbage belongs in threads that are about you, and not about, oh, say, the entire pool of Pepperdine applicants. Maybe if you had a better attitude, instead of treating this thread like your personal playground, you'd get better treatment from people.

I am sorry, if someone asked me "What else can I do to try to get off the WL before school starts?" I would answer with "You do X, Y, and Z" or "there is nothing you can do at this point." I wouldn't badger them with "Why didn't you apply anywhere else?" or "Why are you even applying to law school?" or any other bullshit that has nothing to do with the question. I think that's inappropriate. I certainly wouldn't make the person asking feel like an idiot or jerk for asking.

jstubbs wrote:Pure_Mercury...Oh, you're going to be fun to work with. Nut up and network with ppl at Pepperdine. Who cares if you contact the dean/admissions...at this point nothing can hurt...you dont need the validation of an online message board to be proactive in your own future. Also, if you're on the WL this late in the game, no matter how much they fawn over you, if you dont have the numbers/no one gives up their seat for another school, you are not going to get in. I'm wL at another school and have pulled every string I can, but if no one gives up their spot, I'm not getting in. Simple as that. This is not meant to be mean or argumentative at all, but if you're ready to be timid about getting in to law school, either you honestly do not want it bad enough or the law isnt for you. Think about what you REALLY want out of it all.

It's really hard for me to network. I've only had a car for the past three months, and I intern 5 days a week. I will see about the dean and the faculty. I don't see how I am being timid. I just had someone tell me that I was in danger of contacting Pepperdine TOO MUCH. I mean, this is confusing as hell, and I've never gone through it before. That is why I am seeking guidance, not people questioning my motives or determination. That's really lame, and I hope my classmates are cooler than that.

Think it's worth talking to Admissions again now? It's been two weeks since my last e-mail to my contact there. School starts in a week and a half.

IF you dont have a car how are you going to network, let alone get to campus? Kidding, kidding. Why the hell wouldnt you call them? What do you have to lose man! Orientation is in less than 7 days. Outlook is not so good, but it can happen, call them and be over with it already.

So, I didn't get in for this year. However, I spoke to some advisers, and I may have found a way to do business school this semester, yet still finish the JD/MBA in four school years. I will reapply in September, and all is not lost. Congrats to everyone who did get in. I'll see you on campus.

If you still need to, I would contact a faculty member. The new Dean is not responsive at all to contact, so I wouldn't put my hopes on her getting back to you at all. Not sure what she has been doing since she started.

SLaw23 wrote:If you still need to, I would contact a faculty member. The new Dean is not responsive at all to contact, so I wouldn't put my hopes on her getting back to you at all. Not sure what she has been doing since she started.

Yeah....not sure that the dean of the school is gonna be responsive to potential admits pleading their case....not really her job, don't cha think?

I heard that students and faculty are wondering if they hired the wrong person to be Dean. I personally thought Dean Perrin who has been at the school for nearly 20 years was the better and more logical choice. He is great. Rumors are the new Dean is pushing him out of the school. Sad.

Bshaw wrote:I heard that students and faculty are wondering if they hired the wrong person to be Dean. I personally thought Dean Perrin who has been at the school for nearly 20 years was the better and more logical choice. He is great. Rumors are the new Dean is pushing him out of the school. Sad.

As a current student, I will say that I have heard nothing of this rumor. I'm also in Dean Perrin's class. If he is being pushed out of the school, he certainly has not let that show. He appears to be his usual, good-natured self. Dean Perrin is a tremendous asset to the law school. He loves the university, students, and teaching.

Pepperdine was fortunate to have a wonderful slate of candidates for the Dean position. Two of the top five were internal candidates. Naturally, the final selection cannot be everyone's first choice, yet I doubt faculty members would be imprudent enough to air such grievances publicly.

The new Dean has done nothing for Pepperdine's standing. I fear this will be an ongoing problem. Sometimes you are just out of your league.

As I said in the past. The new Dean is pushing all the respected and loyal administration out. Dean Gash on sabbatical and if he returns it will only be in a teaching roll and not in the administration. Dean Perrin leaving to be the Dean of another school. As well as many more good people being pushed out. The new Dean does not care for the mission of Pepperdine and it shows.

Pepperdine is going in the wrong direction with the wrong people leading it. Sad as Pepperdine has made great progress in the last several years but it seems to be slowly falling apart over the last several months.

Bshaw wrote:As I said in the past. The new Dean is pushing all the respected and loyal administration out. Dean Gash on sabbatical and if he returns it will only be in a teaching roll and not in the administration. Dean Perrin leaving to be the Dean of another school. As well as many more good people being pushed out. The new Dean does not care for the mission of Pepperdine and it shows.

Pepperdine is going in the wrong direction with the wrong people leading it. Sad as Pepperdine has made great progress in the last several years but it seems to be slowly falling apart over the last several months.

Totally shows in their literature. I was accepted there this cycle and their admission packet didn't reflect the same level of care that other schools had obviously put into theirs. It had all kinds of typos, etc and then they followed that up with a few letters that were poorly written as well. Definitely not the kind of impression that entices one to enroll there.

Bshaw wrote:As I said in the past. The new Dean is pushing all the respected and loyal administration out. Dean Gash on sabbatical and if he returns it will only be in a teaching roll and not in the administration. Dean Perrin leaving to be the Dean of another school. As well as many more good people being pushed out. The new Dean does not care for the mission of Pepperdine and it shows.

Pepperdine is going in the wrong direction with the wrong people leading it. Sad as Pepperdine has made great progress in the last several years but it seems to be slowly falling apart over the last several months.

Do you think that the change of Deans will have a large effect on the ranking? Pepperdine has been hovering around the line between tier one and tier two and I was hoping (since I will most likely be attending in the Fall) that this year it might push into tier 1.

melanne89 wrote:

Bshaw wrote:As I said in the past. The new Dean is pushing all the respected and loyal administration out. Dean Gash on sabbatical and if he returns it will only be in a teaching roll and not in the administration. Dean Perrin leaving to be the Dean of another school. As well as many more good people being pushed out. The new Dean does not care for the mission of Pepperdine and it shows.

Pepperdine is going in the wrong direction with the wrong people leading it. Sad as Pepperdine has made great progress in the last several years but it seems to be slowly falling apart over the last several months.

Do you think that the change of Deans will have a large effect on the ranking? Pepperdine has been hovering around the line between tier one and tier two and I was hoping (since I will most likely be attending in the Fall) that this year it might push into tier 1.

With the issues they have been having I would not suspect that they will climb in the rankings. They should either stay the same or decline.

I am also unsure how the new arrival of schools like UC Irvine will affect the rankings but I believe that Pepperdine as well as others will see a decrease in rankings once some of the newer schools are ranked. UC Irvine has a much higher LSAT average and has yet to be evaluated by US News.