Villanova 2011

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:51 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
beach_terror wrote:There's actually a significant difference between Rutgers and Temple/Nova. Nova typically places double the students into biglaw as Rutgers (if you want to use that as a benchmark). Rutgers students do clerkships out the ass, but AFAIK they aren't a bunch of Art. III, which would be the only fair comparison. Hearing stories about their OCI confirms this, with many big philly firms not even showing up.

Penn > Nova/Temple -> Rutgers-Camden -> Widener/Drexel (probably edge to Widener depending on the job) for Philadelphia/Wilmington.


I said if you are debt-averse. If your choices are Villanova, Temple OOS, and Rutgers in-state (all at sticker) Rutgers is the smartest financial decision.

Eh, while that statement may be correct, there are still some issues with it. This isn't the proper place to go into it though.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:56 pm

beach_terror wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
beach_terror wrote:There's actually a significant difference between Rutgers and Temple/Nova. Nova typically places double the students into biglaw as Rutgers (if you want to use that as a benchmark). Rutgers students do clerkships out the ass, but AFAIK they aren't a bunch of Art. III, which would be the only fair comparison. Hearing stories about their OCI confirms this, with many big philly firms not even showing up.

Penn > Nova/Temple -> Rutgers-Camden -> Widener/Drexel (probably edge to Widener depending on the job) for Philadelphia/Wilmington.


I said if you are debt-averse. If your choices are Villanova, Temple OOS, and Rutgers in-state (all at sticker) Rutgers is the smartest financial decision.

Eh, while that statement may be correct, there are still some issues with it. This isn't the proper place to go into it though.


What do you think is the better investment? Paying 180k for a 10% shot at big law or 90k for a 5% shot at big law? (If you wish, we can leave this as a rhetorical question)

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irishvt14
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby irishvt14 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:00 pm

nooyyllib wrote:
irishvt14 wrote: I'm a Duke fan anyway


So, I'm guessing you are extremely excited that Kyrie Irving might come back? FYI, I got Duke losing to OSU in the Final Four.


Hell yeah I'm excited. If he comes back, Duke will be unstoppable. I don't want him to go pro this soon. He could really grow as a college ball player but whatever. Money is money and I'd probably leave to if I were looking at millions a year. And for your information, OSU is getting denied in the final four!!

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langdonbadger
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby langdonbadger » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:04 pm

irishvt14 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
irishvt14 wrote: I'm a Duke fan anyway


So, I'm guessing you are extremely excited that Kyrie Irving might come back? FYI, I got Duke losing to OSU in the Final Four.


Hell yeah I'm excited. If he comes back, Duke will be unstoppable. I don't want him to go pro this soon. He could really grow as a college ball player but whatever. Money is money and I'd probably leave to if I were looking at millions a year. And for your information, OSU is getting denied in the final four!!


Go Badgers.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:05 pm

HeavenWood wrote:What do you think is the better investment? Paying 180k for a 10% shot at big law or 90k for a 5% shot at big law? (If you wish, we can leave this as a rhetorical question)

Why are we operating at the maximum debt loads for Villanova and Temple OOS? (further, 180k is a ridiculous figure for Villanova at sticker - 130k is more reasonable, and 115 for Temple OOS sticker) A more relevant inquiry is the value of a Temple/Villanova degree for Philly/Wilmington at an extra 5-10k a year. Also, just because I used biglaw as the benchmark certainly doesn't mean that's the only relevant statistic. From the 1Ls and 2Ls I know at all the Philadelphia area schools, there are some pretty striking differences across the board between Temple/Nova, RUC, Widener, and Drexel. ITE, it's not solely about minimizing debt load. While that's important, simply taking the cheapest education doesn't mean it's going to a) get you a job or b) get you a job that you actually want.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in big law.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:09 pm

beach_terror wrote:Why are we operating at the maximum debt loads for Villanova and Temple OOS? (further, 180k is a ridiculous figure for Villanova at sticker - 130k is more reasonable, and 115 for Temple OOS sticker) A more relevant inquiry is the value of a Temple/Villanova degree for Philly/Wilmington at an extra 5-10k a year. Also, just because I used biglaw as the benchmark certainly doesn't mean that's the only relevant statistic. From the 1Ls and 2Ls I know at all the Philadelphia area schools, there are some pretty striking differences across the board between Temple/Nova, RUC, Widener, and Drexel. ITE, it's not solely about minimizing debt load. While that's important, simply taking the cheapest education doesn't mean it's going to a) get you a job or b) get you a job that you actually want.


I'm only going by what Villanova posts on their tuition & fees page. I'll take your word that they overestimate the COL estimates. Could a Temple/Villanova degree be worth an extra 5-10k a year? Perhaps, but I wouldn't pay any more than that.

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irishvt14
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby irishvt14 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:10 pm


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kk19131
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby kk19131 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:11 pm

I can't imagine that the scores of Nova grads in Philly firms would actually care about the new ranking of the school. It doesn't help them to start devaluing their own alma mater.

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Bless
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Bless » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:27 pm

kk19131 wrote:I can't imagine that the scores of Nova grads in Philly firms would actually care about the new ranking of the school. It doesn't help them to start devaluing their own alma mater.

They don't.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:30 pm

kk19131 wrote:I can't imagine that the scores of Nova grads in Philly firms would actually care about the new ranking of the school. It doesn't help them to start devaluing their own alma mater.


Like I said before, the firms I interviewed with (Fox Rothschild, Dilworth Paxson, Dechert, and Statefarm In-house) did not think of the scandal as a big deal. They did asked me what I thought about it. I told them I was disappointed yet impressed with what the new administration has done so far; and they really liked the response. Plus, all the interviewers were well aware of law schools messing with stats.

IMO, I wouldn't really worry about the scandal regarding Philly/area firms.

Discretion: I got dinged by all of them.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:55 pm

beach_terror wrote:180k is a ridiculous figure for Villanova at sticker - 130k is more reasonable, and 115 for Temple OOS sticker



Not trying to be a stickler, but if you're paying for tuition + COL, you're looking at more like 150k in loans (site budges 60k/year, but seeing as how that's probably way too high, I'm giving the calculation the benefit of the doubt and guessing 50k/year). After interest capitalization while you're in school, you're looking at something in the high 160s to low 170s. Thus, 180k at graduation isn't too far off.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:23 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
beach_terror wrote:180k is a ridiculous figure for Villanova at sticker - 130k is more reasonable, and 115 for Temple OOS sticker



Not trying to be a stickler, but if you're paying for tuition + COL, you're looking at more like 150k in loans (site budges 60k/year, but seeing as how that's probably way too high, I'm giving the calculation the benefit of the doubt and guessing 50k/year). After interest capitalization while you're in school, you're looking at something in the high 160s to low 170s. Thus, 180k at graduation isn't too far off.

50 a year is high as well. If you pay sticker, get a roommate. I'm currently living fine on a little less than 8k in COL loans. I could be on even less if I didn't live in Villanova. I actually think I'll be able to give back 2k at the end of this year as well.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:25 pm

beach_terror wrote: I actually think I'll be able to give back 2k at the end of this year as well.


For people concerned about COL, I think I may be able to return some $ as well. And I eat A LOT.

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Bless
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Bless » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:31 pm

nooyyllib wrote:
beach_terror wrote: I actually think I'll be able to give back 2k at the end of this year as well.
And I eat A LOT.

I suffer from this problem as well. It's the gym :?, but perhaps I won't be as active in the gym during my 1L :(/ :).

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kk19131
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby kk19131 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:00 pm

Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:03 pm

Bless wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
beach_terror wrote: I actually think I'll be able to give back 2k at the end of this year as well.
And I eat A LOT.

I suffer from this problem as well. It's the gym :?, but perhaps I won't be as active in the gym during my 1L :(/ :).

I've stayed in pretty decent shape. Finals are rough, but I lift quite a bit and it had no adverse impact on my grades or study time.

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Bless
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Bless » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm

kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?

You're buying the drinks.
beach_terror wrote:I've stayed in pretty decent shape. Finals are rough, but I lift quite a bit and it had no adverse impact on my grades or study time.

How is the gym? I didn't get to see it. Does it have everything you need (free weights, machines)?

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:15 pm

kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?


Does this mean you chose Villanova?

Bless wrote:How is the gym? I didn't get to see it. Does it have everything you need (free weights, machines)?


Gym's decent in size. It has all the necessary equipments. Only negative is that it can get too crowded at times (then again, this is same for any gym).

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kk19131
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby kk19131 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:18 pm

nooyyllib wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?


Does this mean you chose Villanova?




It's a strong possibility. I have already ruled out Temple and a few other places.


I want to live downtown, so I figure I'll take out as much as they'll let me for COL.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:36 pm

kk19131 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?


Does this mean you chose Villanova?




It's a strong possibility. I have already ruled out Temple and a few other places.


I want to live downtown, so I figure I'll take out as much as they'll let me for COL.


Did Villanova match your other offers?

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kk19131
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby kk19131 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:40 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
kk19131 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?


Does this mean you chose Villanova?




It's a strong possibility. I have already ruled out Temple and a few other places.


I want to live downtown, so I figure I'll take out as much as they'll let me for COL.


Did Villanova match your other offers?


Tuition, yes.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:44 pm

kk19131 wrote:Tuition, yes.


Is going to school on the main line worth that much to you? I can understand turning down Pitt if you don't want to be in Pittsburgh, but Temple's throwing you some serious cash.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:51 pm

Bless wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?

You're buying the drinks.
beach_terror wrote:I've stayed in pretty decent shape. Finals are rough, but I lift quite a bit and it had no adverse impact on my grades or study time.

How is the gym? I didn't get to see it. Does it have everything you need (free weights, machines)?

I think the gym sucks, at least as a semi-serious lifter. It has a ton of machines, but it has 5 free weight benches, 4 barbell benches, and 3 squat racks. Lots of cardio machines though.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:53 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Tuition, yes.


Is going to school on the main line worth that much to you? I can understand turning down Pitt if you don't want to be in Pittsburgh, but Temple's throwing you some serious cash.


Maybe KK likes Nova's environment better. Temple area is not so pleasant. (other than their Market St campus)

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Bless
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Bless » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:05 pm

beach_terror wrote:
Bless wrote:
kk19131 wrote:Am I crazy for wanting to take out the full 23,000 for COL?

You're buying the drinks.
beach_terror wrote:I've stayed in pretty decent shape. Finals are rough, but I lift quite a bit and it had no adverse impact on my grades or study time.

How is the gym? I didn't get to see it. Does it have everything you need (free weights, machines)?

I think the gym sucks, at least as a semi-serious lifter. It has a ton of machines, but it has 5 free weight benches, 4 barbell benches, and 3 squat racks. Lots of cardio machines though.

Are the free weight benches adjustable (i.e. can I put them to an incline)? Do they have an incline barbell bench?




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