Villanova 2011

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jeremysen
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby jeremysen » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:38 pm

CChuff wrote:You clearly did, last time I checked, TTT was over 100. We are not nearly over 100. And if you look at the rankings and median LSATs, there are many above and below us with median LSATS around 160.



CChuff, if you just click the Quote button, the messages will appear just like everyone else's.

I was mistaken that TTT means over 100. I thought it meant over 50. Whatever tomAYto, tomAHto. The school will still go down in rankings and be judged negatively due to its unscrupulous actions.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:40 pm

+1, I'm not sure if there's any credibility to this but my friend at Temple told me employers tend to have a negative perspective on PENN students because they all try to place in NYC or DC. So for Philly, IMO, it's VLS or Temple.

Also, the attorney who I interviewed with at the place I will be working for this summer, who graduated from Penn, told me that he preferred Villanova students over Penn and Temple. He said that he always gets hard-working, smart, and respectful students.

jeremysen
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby jeremysen » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:40 pm

nooyyllib wrote:So for Philly, IMO, it's VLS or Temple.



LOL

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:42 pm

jeremysen wrote:
CChuff wrote:You clearly did, last time I checked, TTT was over 100. We are not nearly over 100. And if you look at the rankings and median LSATs, there are many above and below us with median LSATS around 160.



CChuff, if you just click the Quote button, the messages will appear just like everyone else's.

I was mistaken that TTT means over 100. I thought it meant over 50. Whatever tomAYto, tomAHto. The school will still go down in rankings and be judged negatively due to its unscrupulous actions.



Thanks for the tip. I agree that US News will probably drop us a few spots, but nothing major. But, Villanova will be just as competitive in the placement rankings, which are much more important than US News. The goal is jobs.

jeremysen
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby jeremysen » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:07 am

CChuff wrote:
jeremysen wrote:the school...be judged negatively due to its unscrupulous actions.


Villanova will be just as competitive in the placement rankings, which are much more important than US News. The goal is jobs.


Disagree. I guess we'll see when placements come out.

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Onion
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Onion » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:11 am

CChuff wrote:
jeremysen wrote:
CChuff wrote:You clearly did, last time I checked, TTT was over 100. We are not nearly over 100. And if you look at the rankings and median LSATs, there are many above and below us with median LSATS around 160.



CChuff, if you just click the Quote button, the messages will appear just like everyone else's.

I was mistaken that TTT means over 100. I thought it meant over 50. Whatever tomAYto, tomAHto. The school will still go down in rankings and be judged negatively due to its unscrupulous actions.



Thanks for the tip. I agree that US News will probably drop us a few spots, but nothing major. But, Villanova will be just as competitive in the placement rankings, which are much more important than US News. The goal is jobs.


It is a sin, and diservice to your class that you are not more upset about what this school has done. The administration gambled a huge risk for the chance at a small reward and lost. Now all Villanova Law School students will bear the cost of this. A school of what Villanova's rank could soon be is not worth $35,000 or what ever it is, REGARDLESS of scholarship, unless you are one of the few on a full ride... not with temple so close and the value for the money there. At this point, Nova's ranks should wind up somewhere around Camden's if the school is lucky... still a huge price disparity IMO.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:19 am

CChuff wrote:
Absolutely. I just carrel camp though haha.

About to start doing this. I guess the staff doesn't care anymore. The second set of basement carrels are all perma-camped, jerks. Guess I'll have to settle for the first set.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:14 am

Onion wrote:
CChuff wrote:
Thanks for the tip. I agree that US News will probably drop us a few spots, but nothing major. But, Villanova will be just as competitive in the placement rankings, which are much more important than US News. The goal is jobs.


It is a sin, and diservice to your class that you are not more upset about what this school has done. The administration gambled a huge risk for the chance at a small reward and lost. Now all Villanova Law School students will bear the cost of this. A school of what Villanova's rank could soon be is not worth $35,000 or what ever it is, REGARDLESS of scholarship, unless you are one of the few on a full ride... not with temple so close and the value for the money there. At this point, Nova's ranks should wind up somewhere around Camden's if the school is lucky... still a huge price disparity IMO.


I am very upset at what our PREVIOUS DEAN and administration did. What I am not upset about is the potential effects of this act, because most people, like you, are completely overstating the effects of this. Our new dean and administration has handled this problem perfectly and is gaining admiration from law firms and employers. Villanova law students will not be punished because our former Dean was, to say the least, less than ethical. Rather, they will benefit from having a Dean like Gotanda at the helm.

aidez-moi
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby aidez-moi » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:44 am

CChuff wrote:I am very upset at what our PREVIOUS DEAN and administration did. What I am not upset about is the potential effects of this act, because most people, like you, are completely overstating the effects of this. Our new dean and administration has handled this problem perfectly and is gaining admiration from law firms and employers. Villanova law students will not be punished because our former Dean was, to say the least, less than ethical. Rather, they will benefit from having a Dean like Gotanda at the helm.


LOL at "gaining admiration" from law firms. I admire the glass is half full attitude, but you have to at least agree that lying to the ABA is a big issue for any 0L looking to attend VLS this year without a full ride.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 am

aidez-moi wrote:
CChuff wrote:I am very upset at what our PREVIOUS DEAN and administration did. What I am not upset about is the potential effects of this act, because most people, like you, are completely overstating the effects of this. Our new dean and administration has handled this problem perfectly and is gaining admiration from law firms and employers. Villanova law students will not be punished because our former Dean was, to say the least, less than ethical. Rather, they will benefit from having a Dean like Gotanda at the helm.


LOL at "gaining admiration" from law firms. I admire the glass is half full attitude, but you have to at least agree that lying to the ABA is a big issue for any 0L looking to attend VLS this year without a full ride.


Our "current administration" has certainly gained admiration from employers and law firms. The misreporting were discovered by our own people and the current administration could have tried to cover it up. But, Dean Gotanda instead, correctly and ethically, reported it to the ABA, hired an independent auditing firm, and went public with the information. Thus, the current administration is certainly gaining admiration. Of course the public perception of the school takes a hit by what our FORMER administration did. But, much of the talk is simply overractions about what the effects of the misstatements will be. I agree with you that 0 L's should certainly consider the possible effects of the misstatements, but not overestimate the effects, like many are doing. Villanova is still and will continue to be in the top tier (top 50, currently 40) in NLJ, which is the placment rankings in Big Law, and that is the most important rankings. Employers have already indicated that this wil NOT deter them from hiring Vilanova students.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:00 am

CChuff wrote:Our "current administration" has certainly gained admiration from employers and law firms. The misreporting were discovered by our own people and the current administration could have tried to cover it up. But, Dean Gotanda instead, correctly and ethically, reported it to the ABA, hired an independent auditing firm, and went public with the information. Thus, the current administration is certainly gaining admiration. Of course the public perception of the school takes a hit by what our FORMER administration did. But, much of the talk is simply overractions about what the effects of the misstatements will be. I agree with you that 0 L's should certainly consider the possible effects of the misstatements, but not overestimate the effects, like many are doing. Villanova is still and will continue to be in the top tier (top 50, currently 40) in NLJ, which is the placment rankings in Big Law, and that is the most important rankings. Employers have already indicated that this wil NOT deter them from hiring Vilanova students.


i see you posting this garbage on two different forums.. yes some are exaggerating the effects, but it is better than downplaying them the way that you are in my opinion.. nobody is saying the current administration did the wrong thing. the fact that you don't seem to mention or care about the law school cheating its current students out of potentially millions of dollars in merit aid baffles me though. also, unless you've talked to every employer how would you know? It sounds more like you are just a student championing the school which is fine.. but don't lie to people about whether it's a problem or not.. it definitely is

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:05 am

BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Our "current administration" has certainly gained admiration from employers and law firms. The misreporting were discovered by our own people and the current administration could have tried to cover it up. But, Dean Gotanda instead, correctly and ethically, reported it to the ABA, hired an independent auditing firm, and went public with the information. Thus, the current administration is certainly gaining admiration. Of course the public perception of the school takes a hit by what our FORMER administration did. But, much of the talk is simply overractions about what the effects of the misstatements will be. I agree with you that 0 L's should certainly consider the possible effects of the misstatements, but not overestimate the effects, like many are doing. Villanova is still and will continue to be in the top tier (top 50, currently 40) in NLJ, which is the placment rankings in Big Law, and that is the most important rankings. Employers have already indicated that this wil NOT deter them from hiring Vilanova students.


i see you posting this garbage on two different forums.. yes some are exaggerating the effects, but it is better than downplaying them the way that you are in my opinion.. nobody is saying the current administration did the wrong thing. the fact that you don't seem to mention or care about the law school cheating its current students out of potentially millions of dollars in merit aid baffles me though. also, unless you've talked to every employer how would you know? It sounds more like you are just a student championing the school which is fine.. but don't lie to people about whether it's a problem or not.. it definitely is



Another exxageration. Where is your support for this assanine statement? Dean Gotanda has been in contact with many many Phila and Delaware firms and that is their sentiments.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:07 am

BlueDiamond wrote:i see you posting this garbage on two different forums.. yes some are exaggerating the effects, but it is better than downplaying them the way that you are in my opinion.. nobody is saying the current administration did the wrong thing. the fact that you don't seem to mention or care about the law school cheating its current students out of potentially millions of dollars in merit aid baffles me though. also, unless you've talked to every employer how would you know? It sounds more like you are just a student championing the school which is fine.. but don't lie to people about whether it's a problem or not.. it definitely is


I did not say that it was not a problem, I am saying that many, like you are overstating the potential effects. Millions of dolllars? That is hilarious. If getting jobs is the goal, Villanova is till Tier One.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:09 am

CChuff wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Our "current administration" has certainly gained admiration from employers and law firms. The misreporting were discovered by our own people and the current administration could have tried to cover it up. But, Dean Gotanda instead, correctly and ethically, reported it to the ABA, hired an independent auditing firm, and went public with the information. Thus, the current administration is certainly gaining admiration. Of course the public perception of the school takes a hit by what our FORMER administration did. But, much of the talk is simply overractions about what the effects of the misstatements will be. I agree with you that 0 L's should certainly consider the possible effects of the misstatements, but not overestimate the effects, like many are doing. Villanova is still and will continue to be in the top tier (top 50, currently 40) in NLJ, which is the placment rankings in Big Law, and that is the most important rankings. Employers have already indicated that this wil NOT deter them from hiring Vilanova students.


i see you posting this garbage on two different forums.. yes some are exaggerating the effects, but it is better than downplaying them the way that you are in my opinion.. nobody is saying the current administration did the wrong thing. the fact that you don't seem to mention or care about the law school cheating its current students out of potentially millions of dollars in merit aid baffles me though. also, unless you've talked to every employer how would you know? It sounds more like you are just a student championing the school which is fine.. but don't lie to people about whether it's a problem or not.. it definitely is



Another exxageration. Where is your support for this assanine statement? Dean Gotanda has been in contact with many many Phila and Delaware firms and that is their sentiments.


me is law skewl.. me read good.. hence the word "potentially" bro

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:11 am

Still a complete exaggeration.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:19 am

CChuff wrote:Still a complete exaggeration.


is it though? seems reasonable to me.. classes are what like 250 people? im honestly not sure.. but say if even 25 of those people went at 5k more per year than they would have knowing this info thats already 375k in merit aid they lost out on.. you really think when you look at it unbiased that you and your classmates werent screwed out of merit aid? you need a reality check.. because saying millions isnt an exaggeration

Edit: i also say we should move this to the other thread by the way

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:22 am

BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Still a complete exaggeration.


is it though? seems reasonable to me.. classes are what like 250 people? im honestly not sure.. but say if even 25 of those people went at 5k more per year than they would have knowing this info thats already 375k in merit aid they lost out on.. you really think when you look at it unbiased that you and your classmates werent screwed out of merit aid? you need a reality check.. because saying millions isnt an exaggeration


O but it really is, because you are assuming that a misstatement in the median LSAT scores affected scholarships when in reality, the students who received money were the students ACTAULLY at the top of the curve as far as admission numbers go. If you were 15th best, you were 15th best no matter what the reported median was. So as I said, all things considered complete exaggeration.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:28 am

CChuff wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Still a complete exaggeration.


is it though? seems reasonable to me.. classes are what like 250 people? im honestly not sure.. but say if even 25 of those people went at 5k more per year than they would have knowing this info thats already 375k in merit aid they lost out on.. you really think when you look at it unbiased that you and your classmates werent screwed out of merit aid? you need a reality check.. because saying millions isnt an exaggeration


O but it really is, because you are assuming that a misstatement in the median LSAT scores affected scholarships when in reality, the students who received money were the students ACTAULLY at the top of the curve as far as admission numbers go. If you were 15th best, you were 15th best no matter what the reported median was. So as I said, all things considered complete exaggeration.


again should be having this convo in the other forum but I feel people applying there this year should know that this view of how merit aid is handed out is completely incorrect.. scholarships are given far in advance of the school knowing where your numbers rank in the incoming class.. the "misstatement" (otherwise known as a lie in this case) causes students to perceive the amount of aid they get differently

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:33 am

BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Still a complete exaggeration.


is it though? seems reasonable to me.. classes are what like 250 people? im honestly not sure.. but say if even 25 of those people went at 5k more per year than they would have knowing this info thats already 375k in merit aid they lost out on.. you really think when you look at it unbiased that you and your classmates werent screwed out of merit aid? you need a reality check.. because saying millions isnt an exaggeration


O but it really is, because you are assuming that a misstatement in the median LSAT scores affected scholarships when in reality, the students who received money were the students ACTAULLY at the top of the curve as far as admission numbers go. If you were 15th best, you were 15th best no matter what the reported median was. So as I said, all things considered complete exaggeration.


again should be having this convo in the other forum but I feel people applying there this year should know that this view of how merit aid is handed out is completely incorrect.. scholarships are given far in advance of the school knowing where your numbers rank in the incoming class.. the "misstatement" (otherwise known as a lie in this case) causes students to perceive the amount of aid they get differently

Well now they are accurate, thus incoming students will receive the accurate amount of scholarship money. Dude, you really have no clue.

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Peekay80
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Peekay80 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:35 am

Mod intervention?

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irishvt14
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby irishvt14 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:37 am

CChuff wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:
CChuff wrote:Still a complete exaggeration.


is it though? seems reasonable to me.. classes are what like 250 people? im honestly not sure.. but say if even 25 of those people went at 5k more per year than they would have knowing this info thats already 375k in merit aid they lost out on.. you really think when you look at it unbiased that you and your classmates werent screwed out of merit aid? you need a reality check.. because saying millions isnt an exaggeration


O but it really is, because you are assuming that a misstatement in the median LSAT scores affected scholarships when in reality, the students who received money were the students ACTAULLY at the top of the curve as far as admission numbers go. If you were 15th best, you were 15th best no matter what the reported median was. So as I said, all things considered complete exaggeration.


But isn't it just the principle of it? These students were lead to believe that they were admitted to a more competitive school than they really were. You're right, the 15th best IS the 15th best, but the competitiveness of the school is way lower than what is was made out to be. Some of the students who go there could have gone to another school that is more comparable to Villanova's ACTUAL statistics and could have received a great deal more money for it. The argument that these students have a right to be mad makes sense. That's not to say that they don't also have the right to be defending a school they love.
Seriously though, we can only repeat both sides of the argument SO many times. So lets get back to bitching about how long it's taking admissions to get decisions out. Don't go to Villanova if you don't want to. Keep bitching about admissions if you think you still might want to.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:39 am

CChuff wrote:Well now they are accurate, thus incoming students will receive the accurate amount of scholarship money. Dude, you really have no clue.


now they are yes.. too bad we were talking about current students

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Patriot29
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Patriot29 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:48 pm

Do you think that Nova will lax their admissions standards a little bit this year due to the scandal? I always wondered, if a law school experiences a downgrade in USNews rankings do they ease their admissions standards because they are now lower ranked or do they stiffen their standards so that they can improve their rank? Or do they not even give a rats ass about USnews?

Also, has anyone been in review recently? My status went from complete to "in review" on 1/27 and I'm wondering if they're taking extra time to review my application or if they just stagnated. I'm asking because from my experience, all schools have given me a decision within 3-4 days of being "in review".

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:01 pm

Patriot29 wrote:Do you think that Nova will lax their admissions standards a little bit this year due to the scandal? I always wondered, if a law school experiences a downgrade in USNews rankings do they ease their admissions standards because they are now lower ranked or do they stiffen their standards so that they can improve their rank? Or do they not even give a rats ass about USnews?

Also, has anyone been in review recently? My status went from complete to "in review" on 1/27 and I'm wondering if they're taking extra time to review my application or if they just stagnated. I'm asking because from my experience, all schools have given me a decision within 3-4 days of being "in review".


It all depends on what caliber of students are applying and accepting offers at Villanova. If it is higher caliber of student, it will be harder to get into and vice versa. This scandal may cause people to shy away from Villanova lowering its standards. But, as I have argued, this scandal should not play an exaggerated role in potential student's decision-making process.

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irishvt14
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby irishvt14 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:05 pm

Patriot29 wrote:Do you think that Nova will lax their admissions standards a little bit this year due to the scandal? I always wondered, if a law school experiences a downgrade in USNews rankings do they ease their admissions standards because they are now lower ranked or do they stiffen their standards so that they can improve their rank? Or do they not even give a rats ass about USnews?

Also, has anyone been in review recently? My status went from complete to "in review" on 1/27 and I'm wondering if they're taking extra time to review my application or if they just stagnated. I'm asking because from my experience, all schools have given me a decision within 3-4 days of being "in review".


I think they have quick turnaround once you go into review. I've been complete since November 16 and have not changed since. So I'd like to bitch (again) about how shitty I think the admissions office has been with reviewing applications in the order that they come in.




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