Villanova 2011

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CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:23 pm

nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:26 pm

I don't know, you seem pretty awful from your condescending posts on TLS.[/quote]

How could anyone who went to a T2 or T3 be a good lawyer? :roll:[/quote]


Haha, honestly. I talked to a few attorneys about the prospect of litigation. They say its does not have much merit and that a Plaintiff's attorney is simply trying to accrue fees. The main problems with these claims is damages, and the commonality of plaintiffs in order to bring a class action. But, I mean if you spend your resource on litigation rather than keeping your grades up, go for it.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:35 pm

jdhakert wrote:
SrLaw wrote:are you all still seriously considering VLS? I noticed that there biglaw placement is decent for its rank but now I feel as if they falsified that data as well.


I just couldn't imagine attorneys eagerly hiring from here anymore, especially like they were prior. Its kind of a joke now, and I bet will be on Third Tier Reality any day. Plus there is no way their ranking will be as high as it shittaly was already. Am I right or am I right?


Dean Gotanda has been in close correspondance with all the Big Philadelphia Law firms and Delaware law firms in the past few days. They have all indicated that this will NOT deter them from recruiting from Villanova Law. Thus, villanova will not lose its already strong presence in the Phila/Delaware markets. While I don't have any evidence, I do not think that the school's standing will change outside of the Phila market either. The misttatements by our PRIOR dean should not deter students from coming to Villanova either. I really love it here, and have landed a great position this upcoming summer because of Villanova's continued strong presence in these markets.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:40 pm

CChuff wrote:
jdhakert wrote:
SrLaw wrote:are you all still seriously considering VLS? I noticed that there biglaw placement is decent for its rank but now I feel as if they falsified that data as well.


I just couldn't imagine attorneys eagerly hiring from here anymore, especially like they were prior. Its kind of a joke now, and I bet will be on Third Tier Reality any day. Plus there is no way their ranking will be as high as it shittaly was already. Am I right or am I right?


Dean Gotanda has been in close correspondance with all the Big Philadelphia Law firms and Delaware law firms in the past few days. They have all indicated that this will NOT deter them from recruiting from Villanova Law. Thus, villanova will not lose its already strong presence in the Phila/Delaware markets. While I don't have any evidence, I do not think that the school's standing will change outside of the Phila market either. The misttatements by our PRIOR dean should not deter students from coming to Villanova either. I really love it here, and have landed a great position this upcoming summer because of Villanova's continued strong presence in these markets.

Actually, one of my professors told us today that some alumni have called and said they're not going to be hiring our grads until after the audit. Whether or not they've hired many in the past is obviously subject to debate, as they have questionable loyalty. However, saying "all" firms will continue to hire our grads is a very misleading statement. There will be ramifications for this, to think otherwise is foolish... especially ITE. Is everyone going to jump ship? No. Will some? Yes.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:41 pm

CChuff, do you honestly think I'm 100% serious on these threads?

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Section141
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Section141 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:43 pm

CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.


It's not necessarily all about the lower median, it's about the increased risk with now attending. Even if everything you say is true, there's no denying the higher risk in light of this scandal. A higher scholarship would help mitigate that risk.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:44 pm

CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.

I actually still have emails from the admissions office indicating that the prior years LSAT/GPA combinations are the primary factor for awarding scholarship money to the prospective class.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:02 pm

beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:
jdhakert wrote:
SrLaw wrote:are you all still seriously considering VLS? I noticed that there biglaw placement is decent for its rank but now I feel as if they falsified that data as well.


IActually, one of my professors told us today that some alumni have called and said they're not going to be hiring our grads until after the audit. Whether or not they've hired many in the past is obviously subject to debate, as they have questionable loyalty. However, saying "all" firms will continue to hire our grads is a very misleading statement. There will be ramifications for this, to think otherwise is foolish... especially ITE. Is everyone going to jump ship? No. Will some? Yes.



The firms that MAY jump ship are the firms that probably barely hired at Villanova anyway. I am also still not convinced that any firms will stop hiring at Villanova. Additionally, the Audit will be well over before the next Fall OCI, so the Audit will not affect hiring even at that firm. As we learned in securities law, people tend to overreact to new information, this is a perfect example of that behavioral bias.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:04 pm

beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.

I actually still have emails from the admissions office indicating that the prior years LSAT/GPA combinations are the primary factor for awarding scholarship money to the prospective class.


Of course they are, but that does not change that fact that a students placement within the incoming class DOES NOT change with the misstatement of the median LSAT. If there was 150 people that scored better than you before, there still is 150 people that scored higher than you. That is why the scholarship awared would not change.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:06 pm

Section141 wrote:
CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.


It's not necessarily all about the lower median, it's about the increased risk with now attending. Even if everything you say is true, there's no denying the higher risk in light of this scandal. A higher scholarship would help mitigate that risk.



What risk of attending exactly?

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Section141
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby Section141 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:09 pm

CChuff wrote:
Section141 wrote:
CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.


It's not necessarily all about the lower median, it's about the increased risk with now attending. Even if everything you say is true, there's no denying the higher risk in light of this scandal. A higher scholarship would help mitigate that risk.



What risk of attending exactly?


You don't think there's increased risk of attending VLS with the news of the scandal? The risk that employers will view grads differently, that the reputation will go down? That firms will stop hiring VLS grads, etc. I'm not saying these things are going to happen, nobody knows. But there's the risk it could.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:10 pm

CChuff wrote:Of course they are, but that does not change that fact that a students placement within the incoming class DOES NOT change with the misstatement of the median LSAT. If there was 150 people that scored better than you before, there still is 150 people that scored higher than you. That is why the scholarship awared would not change.

I mean no, not really. They don't change or revoke scholarships after you put down your seat deposit. A 3.3/161 would not get any money based on the misreported medians from the class of 2012. However, they absolutely would if they were a 3.6/163 based on the misreported data. So it follows that with accurate medians, those that were below the misreported medians but above the accurate medians would absolutely get a scholarship award. This then scales as the numbers increase. So scholarships awarded would absolutely change, come on dude... this isn't difficult to piece together.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:13 pm

Yo, I smell vanwinkle.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:18 pm

beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:Of course they are, but that does not change that fact that a students placement within the incoming class DOES NOT change with the misstatement of the median LSAT. If there was 150 people that scored better than you before, there still is 150 people that scored higher than you. That is why the scholarship awared would not change.

I mean no, not really. They don't change or revoke scholarships after you put down your seat deposit. A 3.3/161 would not get any money based on the misreported medians from the class of 2012. However, they absolutely would if they were a 3.6/163 based on the misreported data. So it follows that with accurate medians, those that were below the misreported medians but above the accurate medians would absolutely get a scholarship award. This then scales as the numbers increase. So scholarships awarded would absolutely change, come on dude... this isn't difficult to piece together.


Wow, you simply do NOT understand math. Scholarships are awarded to top students (combo of LSAT and GPA). It does not matter what the median is. If you are number 1 you are getting a full scholarship. If you are 247, which I am sure you are, then you do not get any scholarship money. Come on dude this isn't hard. Maybe you should take statistics, or better yet 5th grade artihmetic.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:20 pm

It's not necessarily all about the lower median, it's about the increased risk with now attending. Even if everything you say is true, there's no denying the higher risk in light of this scandal. A higher scholarship would help mitigate that risk.[/quote]


What risk of attending exactly?[/quote]

You don't think there's increased risk of attending VLS with the news of the scandal? The risk that employers will view grads differently, that the reputation will go down? That firms will stop hiring VLS grads, etc. I'm not saying these things are going to happen, nobody knows. But there's the risk it could.[/quote]


Yes, you are correct. There is risk that those things will happen.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:25 pm

CChuff wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:Of course they are, but that does not change that fact that a students placement within the incoming class DOES NOT change with the misstatement of the median LSAT. If there was 150 people that scored better than you before, there still is 150 people that scored higher than you. That is why the scholarship awared would not change.

I mean no, not really. They don't change or revoke scholarships after you put down your seat deposit. A 3.3/161 would not get any money based on the misreported medians from the class of 2012. However, they absolutely would if they were a 3.6/163 based on the misreported data. So it follows that with accurate medians, those that were below the misreported medians but above the accurate medians would absolutely get a scholarship award. This then scales as the numbers increase. So scholarships awarded would absolutely change, come on dude... this isn't difficult to piece together.


Wow, you simply do NOT understand math. Scholarships are awarded to top students (combo of LSAT and GPA). It does not matter what the median is. If you are number 1 you are getting a full scholarship. If you are 247, which I am sure you are, then you do not get any scholarship money. Come on dude this isn't hard. Maybe you should take statistics, or better yet 5th grade artihmetic.

You clearly don't know how to account for 1) YP 2) different students applying/not applying based on different medians 3) how admissions departments calculate merit scholarships. If you are above medians, you get scholarships. Whether or not the amount is significant is irrelevant. If you are below median, you do not get scholarships. If the median drops, that means the scholarship awards are affected. Had our medians been accurately reported, less "high quality" applicants and more "low quality" applicants would have applied. Furthermore, many "high quality" applicants would have gone elsewhere than here based off the scandal. Source? Pretty much everyone in my circle of friends. Even low quality applicants/low ranked after first semester want to leave from what I've heard.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jdhakert
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby jdhakert » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:27 pm

CChuff wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:159? I should be getting more $$ from VLS.

Shame on you VLS.


This whole "more scholarship money" argument is seriously flawed. Your standing is NO different relative to the remainder of you class mates. You received the amount of money you received because of you incoming standing relative to other student NOT the median. Simply because the median LSAT is lower than previously thought does not mean that you somehow rose in the rankings of incoming students. So please stop griping.


This is hilarious. Do you not understand that regardless of where a student stood in comparison to his or her peers that he or she is also being sought after by other schools? Therefore, a school who should be lower ranked because they fudged data would feel compelled to dish out more money to that student, to give incentive for him to commit to that school. I don't go to villanova, I'm just saying you're missing the bigger picture tough guy

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voltage88
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby voltage88 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 pm

beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
CChuff wrote:Of course they are, but that does not change that fact that a students placement within the incoming class DOES NOT change with the misstatement of the median LSAT. If there was 150 people that scored better than you before, there still is 150 people that scored higher than you. That is why the scholarship awared would not change.

I mean no, not really. They don't change or revoke scholarships after you put down your seat deposit. A 3.3/161 would not get any money based on the misreported medians from the class of 2012. However, they absolutely would if they were a 3.6/163 based on the misreported data. So it follows that with accurate medians, those that were below the misreported medians but above the accurate medians would absolutely get a scholarship award. This then scales as the numbers increase. So scholarships awarded would absolutely change, come on dude... this isn't difficult to piece together.


Wow, you simply do NOT understand math. Scholarships are awarded to top students (combo of LSAT and GPA). It does not matter what the median is. If you are number 1 you are getting a full scholarship. If you are 247, which I am sure you are, then you do not get any scholarship money. Come on dude this isn't hard. Maybe you should take statistics, or better yet 5th grade artihmetic.

You clearly don't know how to account for 1) YP 2) different students applying/not applying based on different medians 3) how admissions departments calculate merit scholarships. If you are above medians, you get scholarships. Whether or not the amount is significant is irrelevant. If you are below median, you do not get scholarships. If the median drops, that means the scholarship awards are affected. Had our medians been accurately reported, less "high quality" applicants and more "low quality" applicants would have applied.


+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:31 pm

voltage88 wrote:+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

We are. I'm just praying this doesn't affect my OCI interviews this week. Sorry to keep this going in here, but I figure all the prospective (read: former prospective) applicants are interested to see what's going on from the inside.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stayway
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby stayway » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:33 pm

beach_terror wrote:
voltage88 wrote:+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

We are. I'm just praying this doesn't affect my OCI interviews this week.


you know the AzN is going to take it.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby CChuff » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:33 pm

beach_terror wrote:
voltage88 wrote:+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

We are. I'm just praying this doesn't affect my OCI interviews this week.


Yes, the irrational students are outraged. The rational ones, not so much.

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voltage88
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby voltage88 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:35 pm

beach_terror wrote:
voltage88 wrote:+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

We are. I'm just praying this doesn't affect my OCI interviews this week. Sorry to keep this going in here, but I figure all the prospective (read: former prospective) applicants are interested to see what's going on from the inside.


ugh, Villanova was one of my top choices. It's disheartening to hear current students saying they would re-think VLS if they were applying this cycle...at least there's Temple still? hoot hoot :cry:

jdhakert
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby jdhakert » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:35 pm

CChuff wrote:The firms that MAY jump ship are the firms that probably barely hired at Villanova anyway. I am also still not convinced that any firms will stop hiring at Villanova. Additionally, the Audit will be well over before the next Fall OCI, so the Audit will not affect hiring even at that firm. As we learned in securities law, people tend to overreact to new information, this is a perfect example of that behavioral bias.


How about a bias for your law school? You seem to not have any dearth of this

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seespotrun
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby seespotrun » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:36 pm

beach_terror wrote:
voltage88 wrote:+1

Which means a lot of people were cheated out of scholarship money...shame on you VLS...I hope all VLS students are enraged by this...

We are. I'm just praying this doesn't affect my OCI interviews this week.


Eh, no, it doesn't mean that. If VLS has $1 million to hand out every year, they are going to offer that money to the top students regardless of the reported medians. The only thing that current students were "cheated out of" is the opportunity to accurately assess whether or not they wanted to pay the $ that they do to attend VLS with the admissions statistics as they stand--that is, assess the opportunity cost of attending VLS at X amount of dollars versus some other school at X amount of dollars.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova 2011

Postby beach_terror » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:37 pm

.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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